Project Reality Forums

Unhealed wrote:
Oh god, you are so wrong.
1) It maybe looks lighter but it's actually heavier than MG42.
2) It's inferior to MG42 in every possible way, that includes hip firing or firing without a bipod.
3) It's not a goddamn AR!

Weight doesn't matter. MG34 is certainly inferior to the MG42 and hence why I believe it should be the AR as a) it has a lower rate of fire and b) it would (ideally, with the drum mag) hold less ammunition making it more balanced towards the BAR (but then again the FG 42 could be used but it wouldn't be too historically accurate).

I don't really believe you can apply the logic of the mg34 not being a proper AR to PR:N, merely because the classification used that will be used in PR1.0 is more geared towards a modern setting. In modern setting, an automatic rifleman shoots a different (smaller) calibre to the squad heavy MG kit, but seeing as most german machine guns used the 7.92?57mm Mauser round, the same classification won't work.

Iunno just my 2 cents anyway.

I don't get why all PR kits need to also be in PR WW2. They used different doctrines and organisations in WW2 and a realistic game should reflect that. About automatic weapons being overpowered: This stikes me as odd, considering PR is usually geared towards long range combat, which should make smgs less effective than rifles.

Ts4EVER wrote:I don't get why all PR kits need to also be in PR WW2. They used different doctrines and organisations in WW2 and a realistic game should reflect that.

Agreed here

The weapons and kits should be balanced so that players are strongly encourage to adopt some representation of 1944-esque tactics in order to play (and win) effectively. With that said, although I know the general direction I'd prefer PR:N to take, I don't know the details of how exactly WWII squad/fireteam tactics differ from modern tactics so I'm useless there...

Ts4EVER wrote:This stikes me as odd, considering PR is usually geared towards long range combat, which should make smgs less effective than rifles.

The maps currently in PR:N is quite small.

Ts4EVER wrote:I don't get why all PR kits need to also be in PR WW2. They used different doctrines and organisations in WW2 and a realistic game should reflect that. About automatic weapons being overpowered: This stikes me as odd, considering PR is usually geared towards long range combat, which should make smgs less effective than rifles.

I completely agree. It would be nice to see it changed.

Make a proposal then, of EVERY kit you want to see + what each kit should have. Then we'll have a look.

Making one mini-mod using another kit request screen would require changing from few logic variables to compare, to few hundreds. It will also request making new, usually duplicated versions of each GUI index, which would make things even more complicated.

Giving it different kits, for different faction shouldn't be that hard though, so both LMG and MMG kit can give you the same weapon.

But making it shows more or less kits than normal PR or changing it's name will require massive work, which is not worth it imo.

Submachine guns (such as the MP40) are quite OP indeed, their deviation/accuracy are not set up correctly.

why you guys all wanna have everything balanced i mean... things where like that, mg42 was mowing down whole squads and the garand was less accurate than the k98 but sereously who cares? this mod is about beeing realistic not balanced

Blackburn92xBHD wrote:why you guys all wanna have everything balanced i mean... things where like that, mg42 was mowing down whole squads and the garand was less accurate than the k98 but sereously who cares? this mod is about beeing realistic not balanced

Just think the MG42 is represented as overpowered in the mod moreso than it probably should be as the US has nothing really to counter. I think the MG42 would be better represented as a deployable in PR rather than the AR kit or be limited to a heavy MG kit after 1.0

I do agree the kit roles don't really fit WW2 but I think what has been reflected pretty well to adjust. For example the marksman kit is just a rifle with binos, not like a actual DMR. So its done with some effort now just could maybe use some thoughts and tweaking.

MG42 was a 1 man weapon aswell. that infantry could run around with and change position.

it wasnt only a emplacement machinegun like you said. if the mg42 had a lafette 42 it would need up to 6 men to man the mg42.

Lange wrote:MG 42s were not 1 man mobile move anywhere shoot anything death platforms though like in PR, they were usually manned by a minimum of 2 guys in a stationary bunker, window or sandbag emplacement.

Wrongest thing I read all week.

The Mg42 is indeed quite overpowering when put into a nice firing position with long lines of sight, but the way this thread is going it sounds as if blufor has never won a round in PR:N. Sure the balancing of SMGs could use some work, but in the end it's not really the recoil/deviation/rof that makes those weapons "OP". The situations presented by the PR:N maps almost always lends itself to very close fighting thanks to the hedgerows and the way many flags are littered with loads of cover/concealment.

The MGs are fine the way they are as the BAR is like a full on rape rifle, and the Tommy gun can arguably outclass the MP40 with its higher ROF and great stopping power. The Greaser is also fairly heavy hitting and it is very accurate thanks to the predictable recoil, making the two US SMGs arguably better then the MP40 (At least on par). The availability of the SMG kits could be lowered possibly if the standard rifles are too difficult for your average player who relies on volume of fire to even the playing field. But as I see it the semi-auto nature of the M1 Carbine sways the balance back into the US favor by a HUGE and I mean HHUUUGGGEEE amount. That rifle is a lazer with zero time to sight up and the ability to overwhelm an enemy with accurate fire that can be sustained for a decent bit of time when done correctly.

The weapons are more balanced then a lot of posters are implying I believe they are just tired of the MG42 guys being good at their job, which is most probably reflective of the reality on the ground back then. Please don't skew your initial instincts on the balance of infantry weapon too much, I really find the two factions to have nice a-symmetry with their AR/AT and standard riflemen kits, but I do agree the SMGs could use some tweaks to "improve" the recoil/deviation to maybe give standard riflemen somewhat of a chance in a situation where both players stumble into each other.

Lange wrote:MG 42s were not 1 man mobile move anywhere shoot anything death platforms though like in PR, they were usually manned by a minimum of 2 guys in a stationary bunker, window or sandbag emplacement. I think the MG42 would be better represented as a deployable in PR rather than the AR kit.

That is absolutely ridiculous and totally incorrect.

Retracted and edited my statement I was wrong there.

The current ROF on the MP40 is wrong too, it's way too fast, should be closer to the Grease gun.

is it possible to make it such that there is a rifle version of the officer kit that is the only one spawnable from a crate, and the sub machine gun version is only possible to get if you spawn with it? Ive noticed people duping kits by going commander or dropping and requesting new thompson kits in favour of rifleman kits because the tommy gun is so good. Seems like a game mechanic abuse.

Oh wow, this sucks hard. Maybe changing the CO's kit would be easier, should be possible.

Pvt.LHeureux wrote:The current ROF on the MP40 is wrong too, it's way too fast, should be closer to the Grease gun.

I noticed myself, the MP40 drains a clip in a few seconds and I didn't quite thing anything was wrong because for my lack of knowledge thought it was that way but rather noticed the weapon itself had wierd properties with high accuracy and such, which you pointed out.

40mmrain wrote:is it possible to make it such that there is a rifle version of the officer kit that is the only one spawnable from a crate, and the sub machine gun version is only possible to get if you spawn with it? Ive noticed people duping kits by going commander or dropping and requesting new thompson kits in favour of rifleman kits because the tommy gun is so good. Seems like a game mechanic abuse.

Noticed this too, the use of the Thompson is definetly exploited in any way people can get there hands on it, like as I mentioned the current imbalance of auto weapons on the battlefield.

Pvt.LHeureux wrote:Oh wow, this sucks hard. Maybe changing the CO's kit would be easier, should be possible.

Would be a good temp fix.

yeah SL spawn with the thompson then a squad member with a rifleman drops his kit and SL grabs the rifleman kit and request another SL kit with the thompson. Then he gives it to one of his squadmembers, ( 2 thompsons now), the medic stays with the carbine and the other squadmember requests the ALT granadier kit and there are 3 thompsons and a carbine, looks like the rangers in Company of Heroes -.-

Oh and about the germans I think having both MG42 and MG34 is ok, because germans in almost every map they defend and having both MG will be easier for germans to defend themlselves against americans. Also remember that german rifles are bolt action and american are semiautomatic so having both (german) MGs makes the game a little more balanced, in my opinion.

I think the best solution is to edit the guns deviation and accuracy, and reduce it as it was fully automatic and bullets spread all over the place. Currently the thompson is more accurate and deadly than the BAR at medium distances