Project Reality v0.4 and BF2 1.41, Project Reality v0.41 Patch Status

Vlasterx · Post by **Vlasterx** » 2006-12-01 16:06

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']As a result a 2 man attack helicopter should be *very* powerful when employed properly. It should be possible to sit on the edge of the battlefield and pick off targets using the zoom functions available to the gunner. This is in opposition to the kamikaze rocket bomber tactics most often employed with BF2 attack helicopters

Great, I already see spawnkilling from the edge of the battlefield

Will there be countermeasures for situations like this? Stingger/Igla missiles?

(3FJ)Armin · Post by **(3FJ)Armin** » 2006-12-01 16:13

This will create AA teams like the sniper teams. It will also create a need for Spec-ops teams to go and kill the helo in the enemy base.
The harder you make the game, the more the hardcore will like it.

Vlasterx · Post by **Vlasterx** » 2006-12-01 16:28

Bad thing about BF2 engine is that you don't see enemies that are on the certain distance away from you, but if you have zoom like Apache now or tanks/AA's/apc's from PR 0.32, you can kill anyone you want over great distances and enemies won't even know where are you.

Can't you tweak this game so that player and vehicle models can be seen from greater distances? This way you are trying to implement reality at all costs but end result is that you only make this game more unbalanced.

Maybe ARMA engine can suit this mod much better then BF2?

Darkpowder · Post by **Darkpowder** » 2006-12-02 16:16

Xizor wrote:40m sounds alright. Means men in the streets around you can be identified, snipers and riflemen in the mountains can't.

Are all riflemen classes going to get scopes any time soon? I really can't wait until I can use an M16 with a scope.

Personally i dont find i need one with the m16, its a lethal bit of kit with ironsights.

[DVB] TRIggS · Post by **[DVB] TRIggS** » 2006-12-02 16:32

I think the M16 with scope should be designated marksman, make it with a 20 round mag with 3 mags. the spr could be on night maps. just a suggestion for a later release.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » 2006-12-02 22:49

3 mags for the Spr is the biggest joke ever. Its not a scope really what the USMC use its either the ACOG which has 4x i think or the aimpoint which is a reflex

Rick_the_new_guy · Post by **Rick_the_new_guy** » 2006-12-03 04:11

Greetings.

the next patch is looking ever so tight.

After watching the video from the what Genocide posted I may have idea that would correct the long distance sight issues.

Quotes from change log:
"set Attack Helo rockets to real world velocities and damage equivalents
- set hellfire type missiles to real world velocities"
Does this mean they are faster or slower? Particularly the TV missles.

Note: this may have already been handled.
My issue invovles the TV missles.

The problem we have is that the Cobra lacks the long range vision that gives it its nich and greatest ability to engage the enemy.

Just like in real life, the gunship is vuneralbe when closet to the enemy. (small arms fire/RPGs/50cals etc.
With PR, the mod has made it more vunerable with such a (circle of death tatic). The problem is the gunner cannot see very well when the chopper is hanging back.

Now to my idea. I noticed on the video the missles were going slow (it seemed to me that a person on the ground could watch them fly by). In vanillia the missles go super super fast. Hell, i never see them at all.

Perhaps if we slowed the missles down a tic or more the gunner would have more time to make the needed changes to make the target hit.

If we could slow it down enough for it to be seen that would be tight. Granted the thing is still moving fast, and no way you react fast enough to live throught it. Would be cool to see them move through the air and see them hit.

Like someone posted ealier, tactics and communications would need to improve to help the gunner.
Example: Recon or sniper spotting.
SLs would put "demolishes needed here" icon down and then the CO would relay this icon postion to the gunner and right then and there the gunner has the target lined up and the meters in distance! From there they point and click and aim for the "demolishes needed here icon" and guide it the best they can.

The slower speed will give them more time to react and perhaps get the kill.

If anyone thinks useing the smoke icons is arcade like, just pretend it is the same as the recon guy getting a com link with the CO and giving him/her map coordinates and then the CO looking at these coordinates and then getting a commo link with the gunner(SL of course) and giving him/her the map coordinates. The gunner puts the map coordinates into the computer and the distance in meters is shown thanks to global P. System and a vector to aim at (the smoke icon.)

PS notice i did not use the word "spotting" at all, I think spotting needs to go.
PS what are Hell-fire missles?

SGT.Collado · Post by **SGT.Collado** » 2006-12-03 17:36

(3FJ)Armin wrote:This will create AA teams like the sniper teams. It will also create a need for Spec-ops teams to go and kill the helo in the enemy base.
The harder you make the game, the more the hardcore will like it.

In real life, AA gunners are similar to sniper teams. They hide behind trees or somewhere and pick off planes.

Sandy_Beret · Post by **Sandy_Beret** » 2006-12-10 13:24

Rick_the_new_guy wrote: PS what are Hell-fire missles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_missiles

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 · Post by **=*CLA*=StudMuffin21** » 2006-12-13 07:16

Sounds like you guys have some awesome fixes in the works. PR is by far better than regular BF2.

However!! I still see a lack of teamwork. But that is something that will never change. The only way to get true teamwork is to play with friends who like using real-world tactics. Hopefully soon my clan will have more people to do such.....

Nonetheless......I'm sure this has been covered previously (forgive me if I repeat the same thing someone else has) but this is my own two cents.

First of all...just to let you know my two primary played kits are SF and Sniper. With that in mind:

The new explosives are in my opinion not worth a darn. I don't mind that it seems they lack power but I think there should be two things done with the SF weapons. 1) more than just 2 explosive ordinance devices. When you're behind enemy lines and in need of explosives to destroy enemy assets, 2 just isn't enough. Yeah....I know. Get team members to resupply me.....but I think it should be upped to 3. 2) I absolutely hate the timed devices. It's nice for if you die they still go off, but maybe you could incorporate an option that you can choose before you set the explosives (I prefer to detonate them myself). Either timed (with an adjustable counter from 5 seconds to 30) or an option to remotely detonate. Should a player decide to remotely detonate there should be a minimum of 150 meter radio distance. The SF class also needs to have an option for a suppressor for their pistol. Many times I wasn't close enough to an enemy to knife him, but didn't want to use my pistol in fear of letting a dozen others know of my position - so I had to let him/her go. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the SCAR-L has a bit too high of a DB rating on the report of munitions.

The sniper class still needs work. There have been many times when I've sat stationary for a long time, seen a target less than 100m away, and missed completely!! That's just wrong. The sniper rifles need to be by far the most accurate rifle in the game. BUT!!! They need to have a functional scope to adjust for wind and elevation. This should be something you actually have to CALCULATE - as in real life - rather than just guestimate. The scope also needs to have better magnification as it is still under powered for a true sniper rifle (if used the right way). One last thing on this kit...I think there should be allowed a dedicated sniper squad (consisting of ONLY 2 people) where one is equipped with a sniper rifle, the other with a standard M16 and a GOOD spotting scope). This squad - if used correctly - will aid in another squad who is about to overtake a position - providing feed back on the situation in the area and taking out enemies if necessary.

There should also be a radio-man. Ahem! Sorry. To be politically correct - radio-PERSON! lol This way each squad could have a communications soldier allowing squads to communicate with each other. Because we all know commanders don't often enough let squad leaders know about the status of other squads. This would just be for the benefit of team play and realism. Without a communications soldier, squads shouldn't be allowed to communicate with the commander - only fellow squad members.

From what I've seen, anti-armor weapons are not powerful enough. Yes..they shouldn't be able to take out a tank completely in one shot, but they should be able to take out a small vehicle in one shot (many times I've seen a small vehicle hit head on and take no damage). But as stated earlier in this thread, these kits are in too much quantity and need to be reduced.

Support weapons are still far too accurate. It seams I'm killed by a support weapon 50% of the time. Tell me if I'm wrong, but that is not realistic.

I see a need for larger maps. The one's we have are great for squad tactics.....but if people are TRULY into a reality mod, then we need to have larger maps so it actually takes time to drive to a location and complete an objective.

Operation Greasy Mullet is one of my favorite maps. Mainly because of the effects - lightning. Is there any way to incorporate that into further maps??? Such as snow....rain.....heavy wind?

Now to the thing that pisses me off the MOST!! Jets. I absolutely hate them. About 40% of the time I die it's from a freaking jet. Yes...I know their bomb blast radius and bullet impact still are way too low to be accurate, but come on. It's freaking rediculous. If people want to fly jets then there needs to be maps specifically for air combat. Leave some of the medium-large maps to be equipped with only transport vehicles and a small transport helicopter - no jets, no armor, no big guns.

I love squad tactics.....but squad tactics on medium-large maps where you may only see 20 enemies every 20 minutes. That to me is more realistic. It still seems to be a (let's get in and have craziness with millions of Rambo impersonators). That's just no fun. Think about it for a minute.....in TODAY'S world, would you really come across 300 enemies in a mere 40 minutes? Most likely not. In Viet Nam or WWI-II yes....but not today. Mostly you spend most of your time running from one place to another...only coming in contact and having a fire fight every so often. Don't believe me? Do some research.

Again, that's just my thoughts of what would make it even more realistic. It is already by far better than regular BF2, but I know it can be better - and everyone else does too....why else would people still support PR????

OH! One final thing. A shot to the head by ANY weapon would be an instant kill! Weather it be from a pistol at close range or a .50 at long range....I've shot many people in the head with my pistol at close range only to have them turn around and kill me.....and myself been shot in the head by a tank and not die.......probably just a small bug.

But again. Many thanks to all those who design and implement Project Reality. I hope it becomes more popular and realistic...and that people take it more seriously - teamwork - after all.....that's what it's all about.

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 · Post by **=*CLA*=StudMuffin21** » 2006-12-13 07:17

Sorry for the long post.......I got a bit carried away :S:S:S

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-13 08:02

Good post, lots of good suggestions!

I'm all for giving the Spec Ops a suppressor. And another SLAM as well. Right now, Spec Ops doesn't have a defined role in the game, except for blowing things up (which you don't really gain anything from ATM) and spotter for the sniper (which most people don't do).

The sniper scope zoom will be addressed in .41, I think. With the limited size of the BF2 world, it doesn't have to be as powerful as in real life. I do fine with my L96. But the crosshairs (especially for the US sniper rifle/DMR) need to be slimmer, so that you can see your target at longer ranges. And the surviving-headshot-bug... Well, it happens. It's got to do with ping/lag, something like that. And IRL, you can actually survive a headshot, if you are really, really lucky. But you'd go down, not spin around and kill whoever shot you with a burst to the head from your haXX0r-all-over-the-place M4.

The jets... We need bigger maps for those, but that's hard to do in BF2. However, there aren't that many maps with jets at the moment.

Weather effects: Rain/snow can't be done in BF2. It won't look good, and it will lag the hell out of everyone. Lightning, however is a cool effect, and so is the thunder in Ghost Train. I actually looked out the window a couple of times to check if it was coming from outside.

Radio man (I mean person): Not too useful, as we already have VOIP, and making inter-squad comms is probably impossible in BF2. The devs will have to answer that.

Anti-tank/tank issues will be addressed in .41, I believe.

The support weapons actually need to get less recoil (at least when prone). The "support weapon" you were killed by, was probably the Spec Ops M4 (which - this has been said...oh, about a gazillion times - is in fact much too accurate). I get killed more by M4s than by any other weapon when I play as MEC/PLA.

Welcome to the forums!

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 · Post by **=*CLA*=StudMuffin21** » 2006-12-13 09:12

I'm glad someone agrees with me on the Spc Ops and Sniper bit....most people disagree.

I actually find that destroying bridges can be very helpful in slowing down the enemy just enough to over take a critical flag.

Too bad about the weather effects being too much. I guess I'm just a bit spoiled with my set-up being able to run anything. Hopefully some day in the future more people will have better computers that will be able to handle it.

I understand about a communications person not being very useful. Just though it a cool idea for more realistic play.

As for the support guys....they really are support who are killing me so much...not Spec Ops. I know this cause I recognize the gun as a support weapon (or anti personal) when they walk past my carcass. But no matter.....it's all part of the game.

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 · Post by **=*CLA*=StudMuffin21** » 2006-12-13 09:12

And thanks for the welcome.

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-13 11:43

Hmm... I almost can't remember getting killed by support weapons. Most people don't use them the way they are supposed to be used; they are for laying down a blanket of fire, giving support to advancing troops. Not Ramboing.

My biggest concern with the Spec Ops (apart from the M4) is that there is no defined role for that class. If we got more maps where destroying things could really help your team, there would be a role for them, instead of them being an over-gunned rifleman with some explosives. Give them some silent weapons and make it so that tickets are lost for destroying UAV trailers etc., is what I say. More maps with bridges in strategic places, so that Spec Ops can sabotage them. Then I might even consider playing as US or PLA Spec Ops. ATM I just play the MEC one.

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 · Post by **=*CLA*=StudMuffin21** » 2006-12-13 17:50

KP wrote:
My biggest concern with the Spec Ops (apart from the M4) is that there is no defined role for that class. If we got more maps where destroying things could really help your team, there would be a role for them, instead of them being an over-gunned rifleman with some explosives. Give them some silent weapons and make it so that tickets are lost for destroying UAV trailers etc., is what I say. More maps with bridges in strategic places, so that Spec Ops can sabotage them. Then I might even consider playing as US or PLA Spec Ops. ATM I just play the MEC one.

I would love to see that.....make it more than just overtaking flags and killing enemies. Put flags, bridges, vehicles, communication towers....etc.. in strategic locations and have real objectives needing to be completed rather than deathmatch. PR does that already with the other optional ways of playing; however, most people from what I've seen don't like that. Even with the best of teamwork (and I partly agree) it is just more fun "killing" other people than running around trying to sneak behind lines and blow stuff up. Nonetheless...it would make for more realistic play (maybe just on some maps). I would also love to see the Spec Ops (actually..since its US Marine Corps I guess they're Force Recon rather than Green Berets

) be equiped with a SCAR-L instead of a M4. It's (in my opinion) a much better weapon.

Anyway, I've got finals to take.....laters.

KP · Post by KP » 2006-12-13 18:09

IRL, the Corps uses the M4, not the SCAR, so that's not really an option...

Good luck on the finals!

Post by **dbzao** » 2006-12-13 18:28

@=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 - are you sure you have PR 0.4 and not 0.32?

Don't know, a lot of the issues you described appear to be 0.32 issues.

Anyway, welcome

SGT.Collado · Post by **SGT.Collado** » 2006-12-13 21:30

'[DVB wrote: TRIggS']I think the M16 with scope should be designated marksman, make it with a 20 round mag with 3 mags. the spr could be on night maps. just a suggestion for a later release.

I like the idea. Get rid of the anti-personnel and put an M16A4 in it like this one Make the class Designated Marksman: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... INDIA5.jpg

Even though claymores would be fixed in future patches, it's kinda boring for the average BF2 player to wait for the enemy to come down and detonate it. Waiting for 1 kill is kinda cheesy. Although, as of now, anti-personnel can act as spotters and work with snipers.

=*CLA*=StudMuffin21 · Post by **=*CLA*=StudMuffin21** » 2006-12-13 21:34

[R-DEV]dbzao -

Yes, I do have V.04 I just formated my hard drive this past month and had to update everything. But it's most likely lag on my part...my DSL tends to suck big..well......you know.

KP -

I am aware that the USMC uses the M4. That's why I made the note of frowns. Nothing against USMC and Force Recon - I know a few of them and they're awesome.......but I'm a little biased toward Green Berets (aside form the fact of almost becoming one) due to my mentor being one. Maybe the class should be changed from Spec Ops to Force Recon for the USMC side.......not that anyone cares to be politically correct

Well....see ya'll on the battlefield

By the way....finals went horrible. But no worries, they were just "fun" classes.....won't be useful in fire fighting.