[Official] Binoculars Removal Feedback

[40mmrain]

SPeaking of binoculars, the ARF seem to bring theirs up quite fast, is this is a glitch? It feels kind of.. wrong, the nice little animation for putting them in your face seems to not work. Same deal with the GTLD.

[007.SirBond]

How come unconventional forces still get binoculars for all their classes? They should be limited just like BLUFOR, only officers, spotter, and snipers should get binoculars. Not regular riflemen. Playing as Blufor using ironsights or non zoom optics, puts you at a disadvantage when fighting against Opfor riflemen.

[camo]

i haven't read all the posts so forgive me if someone has already said it but maybe we should just have an alternate medic that has a magnified scope?

[cyberzomby]

I think the binocular must be kept most kits .
It's an very important gameplay feature that we can't get rid of !

I think that it is neccessary for a good tactical slow progression .
Observe before attacking like an idiot . This is what makes the difference with other fps .

Whats tactical about 8 people with binocs out instead of only the SL. If you have a sensible SL he will do a slow tactical progression and scope out out the area. The rest of the squad will be forced to point guns at things instead of binocs.

Theres so many examples in gameplay videos where you see people getting killed who are looking at something that they cant take out, with binocs. If you ever SL'ed the following must have happened to you:
"Shit guys enemy tank right ahead take cover, ill lase it and radio CAS"
Look around and see 3 guys looking at it giving your position away.

[AfterDune]

How come unconventional forces still get binoculars for all their classes? They should be limited just like BLUFOR, only officers, spotter, and snipers should get binoculars. Not regular riflemen. Playing as Blufor using ironsights or non zoom optics, puts you at a disadvantage when fighting against Opfor riflemen.

The unconventional forces feature (almost) no scoped rifles. And if we're talking about Insurgents/Taliban, they get a lot of information from locals in real life. As I see it personally, them having binocs is PR's way to sort of simulate getting information from locals.

[doop-de-doo]

I don't believe this change has had enough gameplay time clocked in for people to make serious decisions about it. <-- Add to poll.

[Tit4Tat]

True, but the amount of teamkilling and -damage will be reduced significantly, which will give everyone a better time.

I hear you, but if you look at a bigger picture with this feature, than the pro's outweigh the con's. You will always gets tk'd sometimes more than other times, bino's wont change that imo. The biggest teamkilling machines on the battlefield are.....armour and CAS and they have all the right toy's to NOT tk, but shit happens.


What will cause more "teamkilling and -damage" is the no name tags on people, you EXPECT friendlies to show up when your near them, but after you had a firefight and you still excited aka trigger happy and some dude runs in your sight not having a tag, you'll pop him. This happened a lot on sarema.

I would say remove tags completely and make the game play raw, but unfortunately the majority of the players in PR wont adapt to this and there will be chaos.

[Heavy Death]

Tags must stay, you can recognize people IRL over distances by their faces/movement.

For binocs, i dont miss them, its interesting and al in all, you can choose a scoped weapon if you wiish and you have some magnification. For spotting purposes, use the extremely gameplayish map with moving dots and squadleaders abilities.

Id be pretty dissapoint if they get put back in.

[MiG-29]

Pay attention - only the first one suggests, that binos should be removed completely, and make 46%

The rest stands for keeping binos in some or other way and make ~52% of votes

[Heavy Death]

Pay attention - only the first one suggests, that binos should be removed completely, and make 46%

The rest stands for keeping binos in some or other way and make ~52% of votes

That also means that 47% is sure nothing needs to be changed and the rest is split up in minor groups...

[Raklodder]

Binoculars are only slowing or rather dumbing down the gameplay, keep it as the BETA, because now the infantry have to become more aware of their surrounds by looking around more or using their primary/ 2nd scope.

[Hurricane]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Spush;1909108']Best thing to do is learn the Kit geoms, and camouflages to help distinguish foe and friendly. Double check your map to make sure you're not going to blast your friend, and there, no issues.[/quote]
Which is pretty much impossible even at medium range without any sort of magnification. Except for the map of course but I've seen friendlies not showing up on the map a couple of times now during the Beta.

[quote="Heavy Death""]That also means that 47% is sure nothing needs to be changed and the rest is split up in minor groups...[/quote]
... which is because of the way the poll is made.
If it was simply "Removes Binos as in 1.0b" and "Keep Binos (explain further)" we'd get the correct result, a majority of players voting in favor of keeping binoculars.

I voted for "Binos should be accessible to more kits" but actually I feel like I should have voted for "It's always been an important gameplay feature that we can't get rid of".

I admit I haven't played too much so far, but it has been very frustrating at some points and generally I believe gameplay was better with binocs available to most kits. I think nAyo explained the main issue really well, you simply can not identify possible targets at ranges >70m as you could in real life.
Some (few!) kits could do fine without binoculars I guess, but the majority should keep them imo.

[Myru]

I really appreciate the removal of binocs, since the dependency of the single player on his squads is strengthened by this and some other fixes in the beta. The fact, that only certain kits can completly destroy FOBs and only certain other kits have the ability to observe targets across great distance due to being equipped with scopes or binocs force players to stick and work together more than ever, which is a great achivement in my opinion.

In addition to that, players not only have to rely more on their squadleaders, the role of the SLs has been further adjusted from a combatant to a tactical leader, whose primary task is to identify targets and manage his squad to engage them. Gameplay-wise, this is a further step into the right direction.(imo)

The issues with real life eye-focus transcription as described in the first post cannot be dismissed, but i belive that the positive influence the removal of binocs has on the overall gameplay compensate these circumstances.

Nayo I can understand your frustration with missing the binoculars. But this change just forces you to rely on your teammates who have the binoculars and your squad leader more. You'll have to tell them to use their binoculars more often than you think. You'll also have to recon by fire more often as well. I like this change more, it makes the sniper more deadly, something that was lacking in previous PR versions.

+1

[Gracler]

Or just add the 2x zoom to all ironsight kits like how BUIS was added.

Great idea. Then you can use your iron sight in cqb and if you "focus" you can spot things a little further away.

I like the no bino feature.... now you no longer have 6 people on a mountain top using binos like if they are about to watch the millennium fireworks. (dunno why ppl would watch fireworks through binoculars though?? )

The spotter kit is there for a reason....use it... I did and it works great.

let me give an example;

in the old days you had 6 people all firing at that pixel that they spotted as hostile with there own binos...... today we have those with long range weapons shooting the pixel while the other ones can secure or spot for the MG gunners... marksman etc.
If your on a mountain top shooting down or something the chances are that there are assets that you can jump on if you don't have a scope, and help put some serious lead down range.

The real good thing about no binos is that you won't be killed so easily by a regular rifle at long range.....and cover like bushes will actually work at long range except if the enemy has a long range weapon.... which is something I like.

The only down-side to no binos is that Sniper kits will be a much more L33T weapon to have.... I hate snipers

No binos improves the importance of communication which is what PR should and are aiming for.....

A lot more ammo will be wasted on those hostile bushes...... and to me that seems very realistic since in RL you hardly ever know what your shooting at.... you just shoot in the same direction as everyone else.

I remember long long time ago when I was playing Delta force.... There where no firefights... only bang... your dead....bang... your dead. since everyone could see everything and there was no deviation.... lets never go back there. Blindness adds to the randomness and unpredictability of the game.

+++ to no binos, but give short range weapons option to mini-zoom/aka focus. Like the way it was on PKM-alternative version in 0.981 (perhaps still is)

[10ko]

Please keep the binoculars for most kits !

[Donatello]

... which is because of the way the poll is made.
If it was simply "Removes Binos as in 1.0b" and "Keep Binos (explain further)" we'd get the correct result, a majority of players voting in favor of keeping binoculars.

Hell yeah.

[Heavy Death]

One thing to keep in mind is that its the same for everybody, except unconvential forces. They cant see you at distance aswell...

[Raic]

I have not played enough to have definite opinion, but so far it does make it interesting.

However whatever people use to reason for keeping it the one that people in real life recognize camouflaged people at distance is poor. Why? Because over everything else, eyes recognize movement. A dude in camouflage could stand in 80m from you and you won't notice him unless your eyes happen to look directly at him. My source, participated in community of camouflaged people for a year, did not see them unless they moved, hell in forest people sometimes could sneak within throwing distance before being noticed.

[Solver]

I know kit geometries. I can also tell friendly or foe by the weapon they're holding... except when it doesn't render and I just see empty hands until I zoom in with binocs. At a range where, in real life, you see in a lot more detail.

The desire to only make certain kits be able to observe distant targets makes sense. The key here is the distance - without binoculars, due to technical limitations, it's like the soldiers are very nearsighted. If binoculars are to be removed, then they should be replaced by a 2x zoom 'weapon' or some other mechanic that better approximates a standard issue human eyeball. Look at what's done with suppression - it's not like bullets hitting near you make your eyesight dramatically worse in real life. But it's an excellent approximation of the actual effects of suppression.

[007.SirBond]

The unconventional forces feature (almost) no scoped rifles. And if we're talking about Insurgents/Taliban, they get a lot of information from locals in real life. As I see it personally, them having binocs is PR's way to sort of simulate getting information from locals.

But them having binoculars gives them the edge in a firefight.