Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2013-09-08 13:21**

Arresting wounded soldiers is an idea that has been discussed for a long, long, long time now and it's good to see that it finally got the attention it deserves.

I would go for a time delay, if possible.

Posted: **2013-09-08 16:19**

[R-DEV]K4on wrote:specialist has no item slots anymore =/ (atleast parachute version, but the chosen class should have it on all maps then).

I'd say choose the medic kit. It resembles the medic taking care of enemy soldiers, and furthermore it means that the guy who is always busy running around healing and reviving people also is the only one who can arrest enemy soldiers. This means that he can't do this in the middle of a firefight (while say a rifleman can just run out and arrest the enemy SL even though he would probably die afterwards) without risking to lose a precious squad kit and moreover forsaking his primary role.

With the medic being the only one who can arrest people, a squad will have to secure the enemy bodies first in order for the medic to start arresting them risk-free instead of people rushing out to arrest bodies while the firefight is still going on.

Posted: **2013-09-08 17:33**

'Xander[nl wrote:;1947314']I'd say choose the medic kit. It resembles the medic taking care of enemy soldiers, and furthermore it means that the guy who is always busy running around healing and reviving people also is the only one who can arrest enemy soldiers. This means that he can't do this in the middle of a firefight (while say a rifleman can just run out and arrest the enemy SL even though he would probably die afterwards) without risking to lose a precious squad kit and moreover forsaking his primary role.

With the medic being the only one who can arrest people, a squad will have to secure the enemy bodies first in order for the medic to start arresting them risk-free instead of people rushing out to arrest bodies while the firefight is still going on.

Medics are busy enough already, aren't they? Specially after the firefights are over. Also there is no technical reason to why medics can't run towards the enemy in the firefight and arrest people on the ground. They literally can same as any other rifleman.

Solution is not restricting that ability only to the medic (or just 1 specified kit) in my opinion. ''X meter radius area should be clear to arrest enemy wounded soldiers'' looks like the best way to simulate this situation.

Posted: **2013-09-08 17:40**

That's a pretty cool idea

Posted: **2013-09-08 18:01**

Fandango wrote:Medics are busy enough already, aren't they? Specially after the firefights are over. Also there is no technical reason to why medics can't run towards the enemy in the firefight and arrest people on the ground. They literally can same as any other rifleman.

The medic could as well indeed, but he would be at high risk doing so and if he gets shot while trying to arrest people instead of being in the back healing up his squad, they lose a vital squad component and will be at a disadvantage. The only time the medic is busy is during a firefight, which should be the very reason to limit arresting abilities to this kit only. He won't have time to arrest people while the fighting is still ongoing, and he can't risk running out because the kit is so valuable anyway. Only after the fighting is completely over, and the other 7 people are securing the area, the medic is relieved of his primary duties and he can start arresting people.

Fandango wrote: Solution is not restricting that ability only to the medic (or just 1 specified kit) in my opinion. ''X meter radius area should be clear to arrest enemy wounded soldiers'' looks like the best way to simulate this situation.

Ofcourse that would be better, I doubt it's possible. Hence why we were discussing kit restrictions. It's not perfect, but it's probably the best we can come up with.

Posted: **2013-09-08 18:13**

If you over-complicate it, it will never get implemented... specially if it needs python.

We should focus on adding it as the restrainers with a delay since it is easy to implement and then perhaps later on trying to improve the system with python checks.

Posted: **2013-09-08 18:44**

Simply rifleman or specialist should do it as it is usually IRL. Remove one of the C4 slots from specialist ( it has two of them now ) and add restrainers. And thats it.

Posted: **2013-09-08 19:03**

MaSSive wrote:Simply rifleman or specialist should do it as it is usually IRL. Remove one of the C4 slots from specialist ( it has two of them now ) and add restrainers. And thats it.

Wrong, the specialist (breacher) has only one c4 slot in use:

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.addTemplate kni_kabar
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate klappspaten
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate usrif_m16a4aimpoint
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate ussht_m1014
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate USHGR_M67
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate nsrif_grapplinghook
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate c4_smallexplosives
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate medikit_dressing
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate ParachuteLauncher

Posted: **2013-09-08 19:27**

Adding this feature to award a squad that spends resources on arresting downed enemy's, really could add some extra strategy when making an assault.

Like you have 2 fire-teams and the 1st one is a strike team and the 2nd is the clean-up crew

Since I'm a big fan of apc's (and other ground vehicles) I could also see that an apc being present in an area could do the "clean up" as having an ability to make enemy players dead-dead. Little tricky to implement I think though.

Maybe having an ability as a driver that instead of dropping a supply crate it drops a dummy "arrest zone" in a small radius around the apc.
Since we all are thinking "out of the box" right now I thought id suggest this

Posted: **2013-09-08 20:01**

Or alternately we could limit the Medics vanilla BF2 Vodoo powers so you dont have to physically touch the enemy to just to actually kill them.

Posted: **2013-09-08 20:39**

Onil wrote: What do you guys think? And more importantly, what do the Devs think?

Americas' Army 4 much?

Posted: **2013-09-08 21:16**

carmikaze wrote:Americas' Army 4 much?

Since I don't play any other game but PR, you "question" doesn't apply here. But I suppose that you're saying that AA4 has a similar feature?

And in regards to APC's or crewman having this feature, hell no! Let them ask for Inf Cooperation on confirming the kills, perhaps then they will also help the Inf more when its needed instead of playing the game as if they were a tank.

Posted: **2013-09-08 21:30**

So to gather all the info:

- What we would have is, a "weapon" (restrainers-rope) added to kits yet to be specified. (rifleman-medic sounds ok IMO)
- That weapon would when "fired" at a wounded player body would start an action taking IMO around 10-15 seconds.
- That would make the enemy wounded player dead and with no chance of revive.

seems pretty simple, which are normally the best solutions.
My worries are that players will start running in the direction of corpses just to (get their dogtags

) make them dead-dead, completely ignoring everything else.

Posted: **2013-09-08 21:35**

Then they get shot for being stupid. Doesnt sound like too much of a problem to me.

Posted: **2013-09-08 21:44**

'[R-DEV wrote:K4on;1947392']Wrong, the specialist (breacher) has only one c4 slot in use:

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.addTemplate kni_kabar
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate klappspaten
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate usrif_m16a4aimpoint
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate ussht_m1014
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate USHGR_M67
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate nsrif_grapplinghook
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate c4_smallexplosives
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate medikit_dressing
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate ParachuteLauncher

My bad was the engie then? Or remove grenades...

Posted: **2013-09-08 21:44**

Onil wrote:Since I don't play any other game but PR, you "question" doesn't apply here. But I suppose that you're saying that AA4 has a similar feature?

Yup, AA4 has the same feature. Works really well in that game. That's what i mean.

Wheres_my_chili wrote:Then they get shot for being stupid. Doesnt sound like too much of a problem to me.

This. There are a lot of stupid things you can do in PR, but you pay the consequences for doing them.

Posted: **2013-09-08 22:57**

Tarranauha200 wrote:I disagree. It should be so that people can be killed by shooting the dead body from a distance. Knifing should also do the trick.

Why pick between gameplay and realism? Why cant we have realistic gameplay?

This suggestion unrealistic. It would take some time to give first-aid to those downed enemies, then load them all onto a truck.

This..

If you ran into a house and shot an enemy soldier so that he was incapacitated but could still move, eyes rolling etc, as if you wouldn't put another bullet or 3 into him and move on.

Like clearing trenches, surely you'd make sure they were REALLY dead before moving on to the next one.

Why is it unrealistic to kill them with a gunshot.. You've already shot them 3 times. Or a knife - Seeing as you've bayonetted them already to 'wound' them.

Posted: **2013-09-08 23:47**

I don't get what your problem is... What is the difference if we use the restrainers or the knife, for you? Is it because of the delay that we want to add to the restrainers?

As everything in PR, there needs to be a balance between what's realistic and what actually works in its game-play. If you would make it so that you can simply shoot the bodies, then there would be almost no revives what-so-ever. And if you use the knife instead of the restrainers, the majority of the community would still vote for a delay since people would just be running around knifing bodies like retards.

The delay allows for the situation to require a bit more teamwork which is what PR is all about. So it's not a matter of it being legal or not... or being morally correct or not... it is about getting it to work with how this game was created and how it will continue to be developed.

Posted: **2013-09-09 00:17**

Onil wrote: And in regards to APC's or crewman having this feature, hell no! Let them ask for Inf Cooperation on confirming the kills, perhaps then they will also help the Inf more when its needed instead of playing the game as if they were a tank.

The thing is it is currently the other way around. The apc don't need infantry to kill a wounded player they can just shoot him again after he is wounded or go for a clean head shots.

I didn't want it to be a crewman ability, but a vehicle ability that was available to pretty much all vehicles except logistic trucks, CAS, AAV's and Tanks.

Mikemonster wrote:This..

If you ran into a house and shot an enemy soldier so that he was incapacitated but could still move, eyes rolling etc, as if you wouldn't put another bullet or 3 into him and move on.

Like clearing trenches, surely you'd make sure they were REALLY dead before moving on to the next one.

Why is it unrealistic to kill them with a gunshot.. You've already shot them 3 times. Or a knife - Seeing as you've bayonetted them already to 'wound' them.

There are many cases where soldiers have been caught killing incapacitated enemy's while being on the natural adrenalin rush (or blood rush I think is more correct).
If the enemy clearly surrender or is no longer a threat to you as he can no longer fight you cannot justify killing him and you would be making a war crime by doing so.
There is a fine line between soldiers killing soldiers and soldiers executing downed soldiers.

And for gameplay yes it is a problem with the knife being an instant action, so it makes it too easy to arrest players.
I recall in earlier version of PR a knife seemed to instant kill all the time, where as know it seems you have to hit them in the head or leg to instant kill them. A knife should always kill instantly imo, when the enemy is still standing, but not when he is wounded and not able to fight back.

Posted: **2013-09-09 01:59**

i think the best way to implement this as soon as possible would be to use restrainers with the delay.

i think it should be given to either just the medic or just the specialist. giving it to a kit that has alot to do after a firefight is the right way to go i think, giving the squads that stick together and secure their areas after battle the extra points.

now im wondering what people would think about another ticket lost for being detained? i imagine it playing out with a good effect to the overall tactical realism of firefights, encouraging retreats when overwhelmed(IMO retreats are rarely ever used) and also counter-attacks when one side is defeated(i feel like counter-attacks would be more co-ordinated. eg: squad 2 gets wiped out near the flag, squad 1 moves in to deter the enemy from detaining POWs. or sq 2 gets wiped out and the CAS squad bombs the objective to kingdom come.) just brainstorming. thoughts?

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