Project Reality Forums

Downtown_two wrote:I really think they are on level pegs, sure the F22 has 'stealt technology' which really is just no external pilons and a sleak body so radar signals have less to bounce off, at 50 miles, it will still show up on a modern radar in a BVR engagement makes it redundant against the typhoon. At this point it would be good to mention that the typhoon is unmatched in supersonic manuverability.

Really though, on paper the F22 has the stealth aspect and the EF apparently has more advanced missles (Dont think it does, we use AIM-120 and Skyflash) but there are too many factors to say whether one or the other is better. So EUROFIGHTER WINS BY DEFAULT *runs*

uh, you know that the f22 is designed to be as big as a football on radar, and even if the stealth is worse, the problem is, the f22 will get a lock on the ef before the ef does, because of it´s stealth, and that´s simply the most important thing in bvr, getting the lock first, with which the ef would have some problems.
so bvr definatly goes to the f22
and in dogfight, which heavily depends on the pilots skills (just look at the picture the page before with an f-18 managing to get a f-22 in the line of its canon *rofl* during training), but taking that aside, the f22 will win because of much superior manveurabilty
also, on the topic of missiles i have provided two links the page before, showing that the short-range missiles (iris-t) are superior to (at least the american sidewinder) and the planned meteor will be superior to the current aim-120

Yes, alittle unclear, but there is a good chance it might be upgraded with it in the near future. Comparing the aircraft in 10years time, not not fair but considering aircrafts potencial !!! But i think it has a higher chance of getting TV than the F22 has of getting the meteor.

the americans plan to upgrade both the sidewinder and the aim-120/amraam rockets, if i´m not mistaken.
i yet haven´t heard of any serious plans of giving the ef tv-capability and even if, i doubt that it would get that many buyers, since dog-fights are kinda rare these days, and for example the british are already getting the f-35 , refurnishing the ef is too expensive with such a pricy deal going on

so until now, f-22 wins in all aspects (that said, it is about twice as expensive than an eurofighter - but to be honest, i think in bvr a raptor could beat two ef´s)

At this point it would be good to mention that the typhoon is unmatched in supersonic manuverability.

that wont be of much use in dogfight and i don´t even think that´s true, f22+thrust vectoring = win win

'[5NFSO wrote:Thunder']these could vary well be the last generation of pure fighters

Now this comments been bothering me... lets see... pure fighters...

The only "fighters" which I can think of at the moment that havent had ground attack capabilities are some Japanese models from WWII. That means this comment is over 60 years too late.

The point in saying that an F22 will stay off radar longer than a Typhoon is mute because they will both be clearly visible on radar by the time each is within the maximum launch range of an AIM-120.

I agree about he 3TV on the Eurofighter, I have been reading up on it ALOT lately (couldn't you tell ) for my RAF filter interview and this was the first I had heard of any speculation. Like you said, 150 F35s should be enough on that front.

The F22 is unlikely to ever see 3TV, it uses some kind of exhaust system, that produces a much smaller IR signature which is impossible with the addition of yaw movement.

I mentioned the supersonic manuverability not in the context of dogifghting because that usually results in some pretty slow speeds. In a BVR engagement both fighters would be going for speed and altitude to increase their launch range so, chances are they are both supersonic. Since the Typhoon has allegedly incredible agility above mach 1, I figured it would have a slightly better chance at evading a missile....The more you displace yourself from the missiles original course the more it uses the motor, the more it turns, limiting its effective range. Now that I read the thought process out loud it seems fairly stupid.

Downtown_two wrote:The point in saying that an F22 will stay off radar longer than a Typhoon is mute because they will both be clearly visible on radar by the time each is within the maximum launch range of an AIM-120.

simply no - an ef won´t get a damned lock on the f22 even when he is in maximum range of the aim-120 - THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF STEALTH - the f22 radar signature is just too small - the ef´s on the other hand will be well "lockable". i wonder right now, what do you think is stealth good for ^^, it certainly wasn´t invented for bvr combat

Downtown_two wrote: I agree about he 3TV on the Eurofighter, I have been reading up on it ALOT lately (couldn't you tell ) for my RAF filter interview and this was the first I had heard of any speculation. Like you said, 150 F35s should be enough on that front

until i don´t get any official sources and someone to buy it, i won´t believe that the ef gets tv - and even if, that´s gonna take some time

Downtown_two wrote: The F22 is unlikely to ever see 3TV, it uses some kind of exhaust system, that produces a much smaller IR signature which is impossible with the addition of yaw movement.

while this is true, the advantage from 3d tv over 2d tv is far far more smaller than that off 2d tv over none tv

Downtown_two wrote: I mentioned the supersonic manuverability not in the context of dogifghting because that usually results in some pretty slow speeds. In a BVR engagement both fighters would be going for speed and altitude to increase their launch range so, chances are they are both supersonic. Since the Typhoon has allegedly incredible agility above mach 1, I figured it would have a slightly better chance at evading a missile....The more you displace yourself from the missiles original course the more it uses the motor, the more it turns, limiting its effective range. Now that I read the thought process out loud it seems fairly stupid.

tv gives you a greater edge at manuverablity than delta wings and even delta canards - also, the f22 goes faster than the eurofighter which is also quite important if you want to outmaneuver a long-range missile - so the chances of the raptor to evade a missile are higher aaaand also, a missile locked on the raptor has a much greater chance of loosing it´s lock than one locked on the ef - you seem to greatly underestimate the raptors stealth abilitys

btw, nice lil´ something i found

The F-22 Raptor can stand on its steerable nozzles at less than 100 knots airspeed, yet quickly maneuver to bring its M61 Vulcan cannon to bear on a nearby evasive target.

dunkellic wrote:You seem to greatly underestimate the raptors stealth abilitys

I think your right, that $120 price tag must go somewhere.