Project Reality Forums

Graysun wrote: So, you get me wrong here. This whole post is not about myself but also how I see others including some of my friends play. There are those who only play CAS and will wait afk all game just to try and get it the next game. I am not at that point yet lol.

So what I mean by this is, there are specific groups (I AM NOT EXEMPT) that seriously go for the same assets every game, this was easily fixed by going to the next server a long time ago. Now there is only 1 full server at a time so every group is now in one server, much more competitive for it. I brought this up to show how there is no room for noobs trying to use them haha.

Yea, I'm not ignorant of that level of single-path enjoyment of a game. Like I said in my GTA:V Online example. Still it bothers me that people are like that regarding a non-open world game like PR, and I can't maintain any sympathy for that level of nostalgia. I see what you mean about the lower number of servers making such exclusive server hopping to get said asset not a viable alternative, but I can't get down with the notion that given this fact, fun cannot be found for the remainder of the round in some other vehicle or squad.

I used to favor the CAS, I was a bit of an ACE and could park the sucker in air requiring no further controller input until I needed to move again, knowing where every AA threat was on every map and monitoring their respawn times. My gunner was my best friend, and we played a communicative support role for the infantry squads. Difference is that when we couldn't get the CAS, we'd lead a sweet SF infantry squad (again usually to support the other inf squads with recon, LAT support, or marksman/sniper support). I just don't get the whole "can't play the game at all" mentality when not getting one's first favored asset especially given your points about the lowered server numbers.

Graysun wrote: So, currently it takes a lot more skill to wipe infantry out in CAS than it does in a tank right now. Tanks can take hits for days while it can be extremely easy to knock out a jet/heli the short few seconds you see it. Asset timers need to be adjusted to this issue, or some things need to be rebalanced. I currently do not think a jet should share a 20 minute timer when it has much more odds against it to survive than a tank right now. Heavy attack helicopters DO need to have that 20 minute timer though because it is much easier to wipe a team with a cobra than a jet.

That doesn't seem like an issue, it seems more like a feature. The odds against an assets survivability should not dictate the respawn and therefore make the ability to keep the asset on the field easier. You say, "Tanks can take hits for days while it can be extremely easy to knock out a jet", disregarding the fact that a Tank is a Tank and a Jet/Heli is not a Tank - a tank can expose itself to incoming fire, a Jet/Heli cannot. Neither one can or should go where the other can, that's up to the pilot. That's not an issue with the game, it's an issue with the pilot (or tank commander). A Jet/Heli is a thin skinned bag of fuel with weapons hung from it, and in this game, is forced far closer to threats than they would be in real life, but the game still allows for a pilot to keep it alive based on what they choose to engage (unlike tanks, always with the ability to go fast and run). I just disagree that anything should change regarding Jet/Heli respawn time based on how powerful they can be in capable hands.

Graysun wrote:You mean the days with apaches and tanks on small maps with 64 players? haha.

We mean A-10 on Al-Basrah.

SU 25 on op falcon could be intersting????

I have to ask before I spend anymore time replying to this, why are some posts to this being deleted?

Graysun wrote:I have to ask before I spend anymore time replying to this, why are some posts to this being deleted?

You would have to ask Mineral for an exact answer but my guess is because they are both offtopic and only about hacking claims/rants.

Yup. Was gonna give infractions but got distracted. Keep on topic please.

Rhino wrote:You would have to ask Mineral for an exact answer but my guess is because they are both offtopic and only about hacking claims/rants.

So why were the others clearly offensive towards me kept? They are just as off-topic as the people who replied to them.

Graysun wrote:So why were the others clearly offensive towards me kept? They are just as off-topic as the people who replied to them.

Can't you just send Mineral a PM?

Anyway, PR is naturally losing players. I really don't think the community is responsible as you suggest, it's more related to other games that show up, time and people growing old. Churn without recruitment = slow death. We need more younger players.

What you usually see is a playerbase that is loyal to one server, not play for a while after that server is not seeded.

I think the biggest issue we had in the last couple of years was when BD42 was sorta outed from the community. To the point where he lost interest, he really did give a lot views and publicity to this unknown corner of the internet and probably increased the playerbase. He did not receive that much support from the established community.

We don't really have anything eye catching bringing crowds in at the moment, except maybe new functionality or assets/maps/factions. If we could somehow port all this knowledge to a more modern engine easily, aswell as get a bigger focus on marketing, we could gain players easily.

I don't think it's fair to blame the slow death of the Project Reality community, on itself. It has outlasted other BF2 mods, and mods of more modern games. To my knowledge people usually feel more invested if there is some drama/toxicity. As long as that drama/toxicity doesn't scare away new players, to my experience they don't really get caught in the crossfire.

The only thing that might upset new players is players that go "rtfm" or kicks players out of their squad for being new. That is a pretty shortsighted strategy.

Wicca wrote:Can't you just send Mineral a PM?

Anyway, PR is naturally losing players. I really don't think the community is responsible as you suggest, it's more related to other games that show up, time and people growing old. Churn without recruitment = slow death. We need more younger players.

What you usually see is a playerbase that is loyal to one server, not play for a while after that server is not seeded.

I think the biggest issue we had in the last couple of years was when BD42 was sorta outed from the community. To the point where he lost interest, he really did give a lot views and publicity to this unknown corner of the internet and probably increased the playerbase. He did not receive that much support from the established community.

We don't really have anything eye catching bringing crowds in at the moment, except maybe new functionality or assets/maps/factions. If we could somehow port all this knowledge to a more modern engine easily, aswell as get a bigger focus on marketing, we could gain players easily.

I don't think it's fair to blame the slow death of the Project Reality community, on itself. It has outlasted other BF2 mods, and mods of more modern games. To my knowledge people usually feel more invested if there is some drama/toxicity. As long as that drama/toxicity doesn't scare away new players, to my experience they don't really get caught in the crossfire.

The only thing that might upset new players is players that go "rtfm" or kicks players out of their squad for being new. That is a pretty shortsighted strategy.

I visited this forum after about several months and I have also stopped playing since 1.5 years because most of my like minded PR buddies that I played with stopped playing aswell and it was not as entertaining to play by myself.

I also rarely have the motivation to participate in the forums or in any of the drama in this community but I am writing this post to add about Wicca's point about BD42 helping introducing many new players to this mod with his youtube channel and I am one of them.

In 2014, I finally had access to high speed internet and I looked forward to playing some online games and I used to frequent moddb.com and read about PR and looked up gameplay videos and the first result was bluedrake42. The guy actually made effort to make his gameplay exciting and a bit dramatic instead of trying to show off his aiming skills or high kdr. His gameplay videos really excited me to invest time into learning the ins and outs of the game and I have had a lot of fun.

So yeah, I was shocked and saddened when I learned that he removed anymore of his involvement with this mod and stopped playing and posting PR content. He definitely has contributed alot to this mod with his youtube channel which attracted alot of new blood and I never understood the hate and prejudice most of the veteran/elite part of the PR community has for him.

Just my 2 cents.

My 2 cents:

I've been playing PR since the beginning. I played Desert Combat for BF1942 ever since that was fresh too.

I think part of the problem with this game dying is because the server mods only choose to play the same 4 or so maps constantly. Also, the 'pecking order' among assets such as tanks and jets is ridiculous.

Also, the main reason I quit this game: The game stopped working on my computer (and many other people's computers) after the 1.5 update and the Devs refuse to undo the things that caused those problems (whatever core game change made from 1.4 to 1.5)

SASquatch wrote:Also, the main reason I quit this game: The game stopped working on my computer (and many other people's computers) after the 1.5 update and the Devs refuse to undo the things that caused those problems (whatever core game change made from 1.4 to 1.5)

I've not heard of this (although it's not my area of expertise but would have thought I would have heard something), got a link to a thread?

Rhino wrote:I've not heard of this (although it's not my area of expertise but would have thought I would have heard something), got a link to a thread?

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=146994

That's my thread, but there are others. 1.4 worked perfectly. Updated to 1.5 and got nothing but crashes

Only skimmed through the topic but can't see anything in there that suggests it is a problem with the core mod and not just a client issue? I also can't think of any significant changes between v1.4 and v1.5 that would cause this? The basic core code of the mod is exactly the same with only really new assets added to the mod etc?

Have you tried running v1.4 on the same build of windows etc you have right now that can't run v1.5 to confirm that v1.4 actually does still work on it?

Again this isn't my area so other than doing a full re-install of windows I can't really offer up any solutions but that is mainly because from what I can tell, no one has identified the actual issue either. Sure we could spend hrs upon hrs trying to revert back to v1.4 code, but without the coder themselves having the issue and also even confirming v1.4 works fine, this is pretty impractical to do as it would mean sending each revert back to one of you guys to test etc.

This reeks of "make your own server".

doop-de-doo wrote:This reeks of "make your own server".

Making a new server for this game is a terrible idea, NA can't even get ONE full server on weekdays, and its a community problem no server problem.

Rhino wrote:I've not heard of this (although it's not my area of expertise but would have thought I would have heard something), got a link to a thread?

Yes my good friend has been unable to run PR since he got a new computer as well, it just blue screens his PC after a few minutes on a new gaming rig.

Graysun I thought you weren't replying to this topic because of deleted posts, if you are then it might be worth replying to my reply of you...

And also that sounds again like a problem with your friends' system more than the game, either some bit of hardware or driver or the OS itself is causing it to BSOD when playing the game, not the game itself.
I love how people think just because their computer isn't working it is somehow the games fault and not the fault of whoever made the hardware, drivers or possibly the fault of whoever installed them.....

Adding factions and diferente factions to diferente maps wont dont much honestly.

We have AAS with MEC vs Canada in Kashan Desert which is so freaking boring for INF but yet we never do that layer just to change a bit the air

While i love this game and the work the DEVs do, i agree with certain points graysun layed out, especially with there being a kind of 'clique' that is tight with some certain DEVs having a significant influence (you know who you are). And while i don't hold any animosity towards most of them and think they are great players and people, i think this dynamic, while having some good effects on development, also is problematic in some aspects as group think arises.

I completely agree with the tester team having a strong gatekeeping presence, with the criteria for tester selection going beyond what Rhino said about security concerns and people actually having the tester mindset.

I and others applied for testing after repeatedly seeing pleas by the DEVs that they are in great need for more testers, only to never hear back or be denied. Speaking for myself i did a lot of tedious testing in my free time by myself with the help of others, discovering many exploits, glitches and bugs by myself, sometimes even being the first to do so to my knowledge.

For example i discovered just one day after the new flight model was introduced how to take off of the short side of the amphibious assault ship with the harrier right from where it spawns, only by literally trying all kinds of key and input combinations in all kind of scenarios to see what is possible. The same way i also discovered how to hover in normal jets and the controls needed to keep them in a stable upright position without them tipping over while hovering, being able to prolong that state indefinitely.

Also discovered several exploits in the AA system and how to survive AA missiles in a jet by letting them hit the jet from a frontal angle. And various other bugs and glitches.

So i am no stranger to tedious, repeated testing of certain actions/scenarios and variations thereof. And some of my aquaintances who applied i think i can say the same of.

Yet our applications where just thrown straight into the trash can by the looks of it. I hope you see how that can make some people develop bitter and salty attitudes, after they repeatedly see DEVs pleading for tester applications, yet people being turned down once they apply. To not even give us a chance or at least a probation period, afterall if you see something you don't like you could remove us from the team swiftly anway. So why not even give people a chance?

Anyway, speaking for myself because of this and other circumstances i am not really interested in becoming a tester anymore, the only reason i applied in the first place was because dfoot suggested it to me as a method to help the development and me not being a stranger to drawn out 'boring and tedious' testing sessions.

But i think there are still many others i know who would happily help you out testing stuff if given the chance.

DogACTUAL wrote:While i love this game and the work the DEVs do, i agree with certain points graysun layed out, especially with there being a kind of 'clique' that is tight with some certain DEVs having a significant influence (you know who you are).

I wanted to say my perspective regarding that when Graysun brought it up last time but FFG nudged me out of it. But since a certain group of people(you know who you are) repeatedly state things that are not true - and even if they were, you wouldn't know either how - in order to besmirch our names, I feel that at one point it's been enough. I can firmly say that if either FFG or myself had our way regarding this game, the game would not be as it is, Period. Mats, who is Lead Coder, and I sit in the same TS almost every day, yet the only major contribution that I managed to see through is not even in the game currently, and it took a forum post with more than 10,000 words, 2 reminders and 2 longer talks with the Dev responsible(it's not Mats) in order to make the change happen. Does that sound remotely like I'm having an easy time getting even the most well-developed game change drafts implemented? Last time we interacted I told you that I didn't get my way with the new Chinese Machine Gun's damage model either, instead we found a mid-ground between the different perspectives together.

So, answer me, is this about the amount of influence you expected me to have?