The M16 is ****

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

The M4 has a higher total rate of fire than m16, not by much, but enough. I do agree the m16 recoil should be lowered.

And L85?

Either recoil of all "5.56mm" should be reduced (except M4) or recoil of G3 increased.

[Ugly Duck]

Ya... an M4 for some of the classes other than SF would be nice. I usualy play SF when I can't play Marksmen for the M4's automatic fire, however I really miss my 'nades when I do that.

We need a class with an M4 and grenades, I demand it.

[Bob_Marley]

A special CQB class has been suggested on several occasions (full auto carbine/SMG + frags, flashes, etc).

The problem is in RL US servicemen arnt trusted with full auto, so unless you go SF I suspect you'll have to put up with 3 round burst for a good while longer.

[kurtmax_0]

The m16 is still awesome. Seems that most of the people complaining are using burst mode. I've never really used burst mode on it much, even in close range, so that might be your problem.

I find it is rather accurate and has a small iron-sight footprint.

The AK-47 has been buffed ALOT though. And the recoil is not quite enough. But hey, now it can match the m16 in ranged combat...

[Garrison]

I only mentioned the M4 because from what ive read its being highly used in the US services according to one website i read the US airforce has/is completely phasing out the M16 and replacing it with the M4. Although on my travels reading up on the net the USMC still uses the M16 a heck of alot thats why i was suggesting replacing the USMC with the US Army or US Airforce then you get to keep realism & balance which makes this mod rule.

The USAF(which I briefly served in [damn med disqual]) units that are phasing to the M4 is the SF - ahaha no not special forces ofcourse they use M4's, no the Security Forces (MPs). The Reason they are switching to M4's is due to the fact that they are a defensive unit and engagement range is not going to be one typicaly that needed from the M16. And they are not A1's

The typical state of mind of the US Military is to not use Full Auto. They would rather you aim.

[wooly-back-jack]

no it deffo seems weaker, I used single shot alot in .4 with m16 and it seemed to have much more effect than it has now.

[Hauler]

LoL now I've got peoples attention I'd like to make a suggestion for the US side. In my honest opinion the M16 is an alright weapon when facing the MEC or Insurgents (they balance each other out) but when it comes to fighting the Chinese its seriously lacking compared to there rifles. The PLA rifles have optic scopes semi, burst and full auto the USMC only gets semi, burst fire and iron sights its not exactly fair IMHO. So what i suggest is to change the sides slightly so instead of it being the USMC v China how about changing it to the US army or US A.F. v China. And giving the US army/US A.F. a different weapon load out of say :-

Special forces = Scar variant
Riflemen = M4A1 with scope
Riflemen anti personnel = M4A1 with scope
Combat engineer = M4A1 with iron sight or shotgun
Medic = M4A1 with iron sight
Rifleman Antitank = M4A1 with iron sight
Grenadier = M16 with m203 iron sight

Officers kit = M4A1 with scope
Other pick up kits keep the same

Special Forces: Scar seems like a good fit.
Rifleman:M4a1 with scope seems right.
Rifleman AP:no scope and your good to go
Combat Engineer:M16a1 or whatever the new M16 is
Medic:M16
Rifleman AT:M4a1 iron sight
Grenadier:M4 with the M203 attached

I feel that all support classes such I have said above shouldn't have an M4 cause they are in support of the combat people who do carry that. The M16 is a good weapon and it wont be totally removed from the miltary they will keep like I have above. In the Marines the M16 is the main weapon as far as I know the M4 is the gun of the army. Anyway I could be wrong about that but my point is that the M16 will still be used with support classes in RL and should be in the game.

[Katarn]

Wow it REALLY looks like you put a lot of research into the above suggestion

The M16A4 is and will be the standard issue rifle for the US marines for some time to come.

The M4 is the US army's issued weapon.

[Hauler]

Thanks man I have been thinking of the most realistic setup for USMC. Now for Insurgents, MEC, China. British have no idea. But in that case if your saying that USMC is going to stick with the M16 then I wouldn't even go for m4's with the rifleman. I would stay M16 and variants of that. Where can I sign up for the dev team??

[Leo]

no it deffo seems weaker, I used single shot alot in .4 with m16 and it seemed to have much more effect than it has now.

I think that's because after .5 there were some hitbox issues.

[DaedalusAI1]

I think that's because after .5 there were some hitbox issues.

I'd have to agree with that comment, that or it really is weaker. I have my sight dead on a lot in 75-100m and looks like i'm hitting them but i have to do it like 4-6 times before they die.

[wooly-back-jack]

yeah you even see blood come off them and stop shooting because you really think they should be dropping dead, then they spin around and kill you :/

[Freebo]

i want the M4A1 the M16 just sucks.. its a wonder how the American army survives..

[18Zulukiller]

Katarn']Wow it REALLY looks like you put a lot of research into the above suggestion

The M16A4 is and will be the standard issue rifle for the US marines for some time to come.

The M4 is the US army's issued weapon.

Firstly no it isn't its a sort of temporary replacement for the M16A2 (which is still used by the USMC) as all M16 variants days are numbered and that's a FACT. Why else would so much funding and research have been put into developing the likes of the xm8 (if the xm8 had of come of the US would of been using it in 2005), M468 and various other weapon systems. BTW i did know all the above but i though BALANCE + realism was going to be the primary drive for this mod. If you want me to start on realism i will and here goes.

Why doesnt the M1A2 tank 1 shot kill EVERYTHING doesnt the M1A2 fire depleted uranium rounds that can penetrate any armour EVEN Chobham armour ?.

How in the hell can someone riddled with bullets become fully fit and healthy from a magic little bag held by a feild medic ?.

Why do soldiers that have just been killed magically reappear on there squad leader ?.

If you want to slap me with a realism argument go for it I'll slap you back ten times as hard your the guys that are claiming your trying to go for balance more than realism. And i can site links all over the net quoting you lot stating that would you like me to do that ?. I made an honest simple suggestion for balance purposes there was no need for you to be pedantic with my reply.

Actually here's another slap in your face for your realism this is a fact research it US soldiers in Iraq are dumping there M16A2,M16A4 & M4 in droves and picking up AK's were ever they can (and if there allowed). Simply because the AK'S are more reliabale for the conditions over there (they don't jam no were near as much) and they have the ability to fire in full auto. Now that's your everyday real life solider that's fighting in a war now that thinks the M16 is **** compared to the AK.

So going back to my original argument about the QBZ, the PLA in IRL dumped the AK for the superior QBZ. Now following the logic above if the AK is superior to the M16 (that's what US troops are thinking) the QBZ must be god like. And that's how it appears in game unless you've got an M4A1 in your hands or at least a couple of guys in your squad with one your gonna have problems. And even if you do have an M4A1 in your hands or a couple of guys in your squad with one it then throws out the balance of your squad because you've then not got the medic you need or you've not got the anti tank you need or that riflemen (for ammo). Or you cant pick up that officers kit that's needed because your trying to fill in the roles missing in your squad (which is actually happening to me a lot but only when I'm playing the USMC v PLA).

Look i'm not alone in feeling this way about the USMC v PLA side try this little experiment. Create an account under a name no one would recognize you with and become a squad leader and play regular so people that use voip always join your squad. And then one day on a USMC v PLA map (when your USMC) with people you've played regular with ask them what they think about the balance between the QBZ & the M16 and ill put money on it people complain.

[wooly-back-jack]

I usually dump my m16 and pick up an AK when I can ingame too

[ArmedDrunk&Angry]

I gotta say I pick up the AK over the M16 but I pick up the SA80 over the AK.
I don't have the fast twitch reflexes some people do so the M4 was never that attractive to me as the kit has no other squad benefits.
I do think Zulu is overstating the case against the M16 in the game.

[Duke]

Firstly no it isn't its a sort of temporary replacement for the M16A2 (which is still used by the USMC) as all M16 variants days are numbered and that's a FACT. Why else would so much funding and research have been put into developing the likes of the xm8 (if the xm8 had of come of the US would of been using it in 2005), M468 and various other weapon systems. BTW i did know all the above but i though BALANCE + realism was going to be the primary drive for this mod. If you want me to start on realism i will and here goes.

Why doesnt the M1A2 tank 1 shot kill EVERYTHING doesnt the M1A2 fire depleted uranium rounds that can penetrate any armour EVEN Chobham armour ?.

How in the hell can someone riddled with bullets become fully fit and healthy from a magic little bag held by a feild medic ?.

Why do soldiers that have just been killed magically reappear on there squad leader ?.

If you want to slap me with a realism argument go for it I'll slap you back ten times as hard your the guys that are claiming your trying to go for balance more than realism. And i can site links all over the net quoting you lot stating that would you like me to do that ?. I made an honest simple suggestion for balance purposes there was no need for you to be pedantic with my reply.

Actually here's another slap in your face for your realism this is a fact research it US soldiers in Iraq are dumping there M16A2,M16A4 & M4 in droves and picking up AK's were ever they can (and if there allowed). Simply because the AK'S are more reliabale for the conditions over there (they don't jam no were near as much) and they have the ability to fire in full auto. Now that's your everyday real life solider that's fighting in a war now that thinks the M16 is **** compared to the AK.

So going back to my original argument about the QBZ, the PLA in IRL dumped the AK for the superior QBZ. Now following the logic above if the AK is superior to the M16 (that's what US troops are thinking) the QBZ must be god like. And that's how it appears in game unless you've got an M4A1 in your hands or at least a couple of guys in your squad with one your gonna have problems. And even if you do have an M4A1 in your hands or a couple of guys in your squad with one it then throws out the balance of your squad because you've then not got the medic you need or you've not got the anti tank you need or that riflemen (for ammo). Or you cant pick up that officers kit that's needed because your trying to fill in the roles missing in your squad (which is actually happening to me a lot but only when I'm playing the USMC v PLA).

Look i'm not alone in feeling this way about the USMC v PLA side try this little experiment. Create an account under a name no one would recognize you with and become a squad leader and play regular so people that use voip always join your squad. And then one day on a USMC v PLA map (when your USMC) with people you've played regular with ask them what they think about the balance between the QBZ & the M16 and ill put money on it people complain.

Wow dude your getting absolutely furious and I can't quite understand why.

Katern wasnt being offensive. Chill.

[Freebo]

well I always go medic, well pritty much all the time, and when on us i am always dieing and getting rubbish kdr but when i play PLA or w/e i always get good KDR and feel much more comfortable and confident, whereas when i got an M16 in my hands i know im gunna loose any confrentation...

[TristanYockell]

I dont think there is anything wrong with the M16's I'v gotten many kills with them. I agree that the recoil could be reduced just a tad, but not much, it isent a super weapon, its a .223/5.56mm rifle like any other.
Many people are saying that the recoil is to low for the ak47 but I say that its just about right. The recoil is correct, what needs to be made a little more sloppy is the accuracy of the bullet, it needs to waver just a little more.
4-7 inch groups at 100 yards for your standard ak47 is not exactly accurate, so you should not be able to easily be plinking guys in the heads with them.

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

I dont think there is anything wrong with the M16's I'v gotten many kills with them. I agree that the recoil could be reduced just a tad, but not much, it isent a super weapon, its a .223/5.56mm rifle like any other.
Many people are saying that the recoil is to low for the ak47 but I say that its just about right. The recoil is correct, what needs to be made a little more sloppy is the accuracy of the bullet, it needs to waver just a little more.
4-7 inch groups at 100 yards for your standard ak47 is not exactly accurate, so you should not be able to easily be plinking guys in the heads with them.

If recoil of M16 goes down L85 should follow.