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Wait that doesn't make sense, you lose the ability to set a new rally point if any CP on the map falls? even if its no where near what you're doing at the time?

Edit: Instaposted, I still don't understand how this works exactly, it seems like you get punished if you set a rally point after you're team gains ground because now if you lose any you are up a creek. Also the "if you don't get it you're too dumb to be squad leader" is pretty damned insulting.

{GD}Snake13 wrote:Wait that doesn't make sense, you lose the ability to set a new rally point if any CP on the map falls? even if its no where near what you're doing at the time?

Kinda. And why are you off on an Infantry Patrol nowhere near an objective that is in contention?

You can still spawn at the current RP, the SL and an APC. So for an organised force on a "mission" .. they can continue to be fairly effective, but for folks off gaggling way behind the lines .. their ability to remain offensive is somewhat compromised by their team losing control of an objective.

If your TEAM loses a CP you cannot relocate your patrol's rally point (if you already have one set) until you equalise or have more CPs than when you last set one.

If you have not already set one, you can set ONE but will not be abe to set a second one (relocate the first one) until you at least equalise CP ownership to what it was when you set a rally point.

Effectively the ability to set rally points (continue on offensive Infantry patrols) is linked to how well your team is doing on the map, which we determine by the status of CP ownership.

And if you have a half asssed decent Commander there will be a Bunker the entire team can spawn at which, in theory, should be fairly close to the engagement area.

{GD}Snake13 wrote:Also the "if you don't get it you're too dumb to be squad leader" is pretty damned insulting.

Not expecting people to "get it" with a few half baked posts explaining some of the basic ideas.... but the immediate response is often "pmfg too confucksing I just want to kill stuff" is pretty insulting (and boring) because we're attempting to make a tactically rich game and to do that requires a bit more than "choose weapun, kill".

We're intentionally loading the complexity scale somewhat exponentially through Grunt, Specialist, Squad Leader, Commander. This RP stuff applies to the SLs. We intentionally want people to dedicate themselves to roles to some degree, so we'd like to have an increasing complexity (and influence) scale up through "the ranks" to make for a rich game for the few who want to take on those roles.

It just seems like a somewhat arbitrary restriction, if you're on the attack and the point behind you goes gray you can't regroup and set a new rally to retake the objective, you're stuck with your current rally until the enemy gets around to blowing it up, something seems off when the enemy overrunning your rally is something you try to make happen.

Similarly if you're on defense and you're position gets overtaken you can't fall back and regroup, you're stuck coming in the same place. I just don't see the rational behind the restriction, or any sort of tactical depth bestowed by it.

This means if you're team advances but can't hold on to its gains your team loses the ability to set rally points permanently unless the enemy is stupid enough to destroy them.

Edited: Thank you very much Eggman. I'll never say i didn't understand your post 1st time again.

Derrr letts c ip im clever enoff too bea squad leader! hic hic derr

So you will be able to set more then one RP (if you havn't lost any flag in time after setting the first one), and you can't change location of existing rp untill it is destroyed right?
If I get it right it will make RP's easier to find as you can't relocate them.
But I can live with that. I hope that camo on RP will be changed in v.6 (jungle/desert)

RPs have a woodland and desert scheme now.

There will surely be some game play dynamics issues that need tweaking, but we'll hopefully discover those during ob.

With this system the team thats gets pushed back at one point and don't get the flag back wouldn't be able to lay RPs till the game ends.
So you should avoid to place a RP when your team have many flags and you are not shure that you can hold them.

And what do you against recreating of squads to avoid the RP handicap.

(Deleted as point is moot)

We are not preventing a team who loses a CP from setting rally points... when you lose a CP you can set ONE rally point. If you have already set one, then that rally point will expire in 5 minutes. When it expires you will not be able to spawn on it nor can you set another one until you equalise your team's CP status as to what it was when you spawned.

So losing a CP will effectively push your front line back, tho bunkers and firebases can help hold it. If the SL dies and respawns they can again set one rally point.

There are fairly severe penalties for suicide, so that won't be a desireable tactic.

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']
So losing a CP will effectively push your front line back, tho bunkers and firebases can help hold it. If the SL dies and respawns they can again set one rally point.

There are fairly severe penalties for suicide, so that won't be a desireable tactic.

Ahhh, okay that makes more sense now, I still think it will cause more problems then it solves, as it makes it even more undesirable to retreat and regroup instead of doing a suicide by enemy fire maneuver.

{GD}Snake13 wrote:It just seems like a somewhat arbitrary restriction, if you're on the attack and the point behind you goes gray you can't regroup and set a new rally to retake the objective, you're stuck with your current rally until the enemy gets around to blowing it up, something seems off when the enemy overrunning your rally is something you try to make happen.

Similarly if you're on defense and you're position gets overtaken you can't fall back and regroup, you're stuck coming in the same place. I just don't see the rational behind the restriction, or any sort of tactical depth bestowed by it.

This means if you're team advances but can't hold on to its gains your team loses the ability to set rally points permanently unless the enemy is stupid enough to destroy them.

Actually it does make sense. If the enemy has capped the flag around which your rally is set, then why do you want to set another rally further ahead or further back from which you have a respawn point?

The current system [0.5] seems kind of like a quicksave around every corner.

So it seems that the encircling of a uncapped flag from a team in which forces are on the attack has diminished. I think this is actually a very good change for gameplay.

Ok thanks Egg for all the quick and clear answers about the new system. It all sounds awsome and I really can't wait to try it out.

Copy_of_Blah wrote:Actually it does make sense. If the enemy has capped the flag around which your rally is set, then why do you want to set another rally further ahead or further back from which you have a respawn point?

But the enemy hunt down and destroy RPs with great passion. They dont last long, espically if they can be destroyed very easy and cant be glitched.

Who said about setting a rally further ahead, what about setting one further back? or resetting a destroyed one.

I hope Rally Points can be set within the Flag raduis.

I'd imagine the team getting pushed back will have NO Squad Rally Points after about 5mins of being pushed back.

Sounds like it might go down to how you hide the RP.

I look forward to seeing it in action

Bloody exciting this is.......

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']how close = like 5m from SL or some such.. can't recall, easily adjusted, but the basic idea that you have the majority of the squad within close proximity to the rally point location. This is a new and important change to how they work (and realistically is a design oversight in the first iteration of them). If your rally point is compromised (squad routed) you need to regroup again to set one.

basically we look at the CP count when you spawn, if it's equal or higher then you can continue on your patrol (set more than one unique rally point location). However if it is down from when you last spawned, you cannot set a new rally point if you have one already set but you can set a single rally point if you have not already set one.

Confucksing? Hehe well... don't play squad leader then

There really needs to be some sort of information available to the player in-game about whether he can set an RP or not, and if not, why not. Not on the HUD, but on the map perhaps.