To much focus on USMC, suggestions for MEC and china

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-10-16 04:55

Mad Max wrote:How about a friend of mine (who is well up on military stuff so he won't be wrong) actually seeing him land in one in Chicago a year or so ago?

Does your friend have a photograph?

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » 2005-10-16 12:05

Sadly he doesn't, but i trust him, he know's his stuff. Maybe it was a one off event? He landed in quite a small area and those other choppers are pretty damn huge compared to the Mi-2, so a smaller chopper would make sense.

worst 3 · Post by **worst 3** » 2006-01-31 23:47

i think there need to be more stuf for the mec (or there replacements) and the china team.

i mean look the Us has 6 new things all with can be used in a fight and what dose the Chinese have 3 things and binocs are not going to be too help full in a fight.

https://www.realitymod.com/index.php?page=gallery

the chinese are going to need stuf because no one going to want to use them and there always going to be raped by the other team. think you will need to put them in even if you dont know that much about there army and if it is not as good.

but they all do look realy good

Post by **IRONxMortlock** » 2006-01-31 23:52

There will be eventually, we are getting there.

worst 3 · Post by **worst 3** » 2006-01-31 23:59

k just seemed to be geting stacked a bit to much, are there any cool veicles that were not mentioned yet that they might get in the future that you are thinking of makeing?

cant wait for the us stuf too (the atv the most)

Tom#13 · Post by **Tom#13** » 2006-01-31 23:59

yes this has been brought up before. there is alot more media and just general info than on the other force (i dont even know what its going to be yet)

Martini · Post by **Martini** » 2006-02-01 02:33

Maybe the MEC could have fake Mcdonalds burger boxes and stuff that blow up when USMC troops open them!!

LOL

Anyway, Its funny this thread exists because the answer probably lies in the 11:00 news.

The U.S. Military has allot of technology at its disposal however insurgents, political terrorists and natives of the middle east still manage to hold their ground with inferior equipment and training.

Sadly the war in the real world is allot like the battlefield world, in the sense that two sides fight to control a space and when one leaves the other just returns to take it back. A win in the middle east might just come down to who has the highest 'ticket' count one day.

Anyway, back on track here, it would be cool if the MEC didn't have the typical military loadout ie: body armor, knives, grenades. Most of these guys just run around with an AK and a string of bullets. The advantage for the MEC would be a faster infantry model with a higher jumping ability and stamina. Plus maybe a more detailed model of the minimap if possible. I don't know just ideas. Maybe they could have more uncappable spawn points too.

But a couple of rigged med packs or ammo bags with personnal mines wouldn't be to far from reality either!

"Oh man what I would do for a Big Mac right....hey look man its box of Mc Nugge...BOOM!! the Mec guys would be in hysterics

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-02-01 02:43

Careful with the IED cracks, while it is a possibility in-game it isn't really something to laugh at as they are very real and very deadly.

Martini · Post by **Martini** » 2006-02-01 03:55

Yes, I know sorry for the insensitivity, could have used a spy vs. spy analogy but hey, my bad.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-02-01 20:17

No problem, I know you didn't mean it in a bad way.

asiLLasiTgets · Post by **asiLLasiTgets** » 2006-02-02 04:12

As far as firearms go in the middle east it is a grab bag..

For assualt rifles Syria, Oman, jordan, Egypt, Iraq, and yemen use the AK47. Iran uses the Ak47 and the Fn Fal. Saudi Arabia uses the Hk G3. Kuwait, Lebanon, UAE use the M16. Pakistani militia use the AK47 while the Army uses the HK G3.

Light Machine guns commonly seen in this region are the Rpk, Rpd,Pkm,FN Mag,MG42/MG34,MG3. As hard as it is to believe, the MG42 is widespread, especially in pakistan.

As far as accurized rifles you need not go further than the Dragunov and the Mosin nagant.

Pistols such as the makarov,Tokarev, and Browning Hi power are usually seen in this region.

Most of these countries are licensed out the right to manufacture specific firearms from the original manufacturers for example. Iraq is licensed by FN to make Browning hi powers. Iran is licensed out to make FN FAL's. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are licesnsed out by H&K to make HK G3's HK MP 5's ( A3 model, PDW model). So you deffinately have some choices to work with... I gues it is a question of, What do we wan't to consider MEC.

Xeno426 · Post by **Xeno426** » 2006-02-02 19:17

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']The Type 95 is pretty much already in-game; the Type 97 used in the Chinese special operations class is just a 5.56mm version of the Type 95.

Which doesn't make any sense. The QBZ-97 is the export version of the QBZ-95. The weapon that, in-game, is called QBZ-97 should be renamed CAR-95, the actual name of the carbine version of the QBZ-95.

Jantteri wrote:How about Type95 rifle with Type91 grenade launcher for the chinese assault class?

The Type 91 (as stated earlier) is a riot-control GR, and doesn't really have any munitions that would be useful in a combat zone. The QBZ-95 can actually use the M203, or the Chinese copy of it, but I don't know what its designation is.

Jantteri wrote:Funny to see AK-47s used, as the chinese designation is Type56. And it hasn't been issued to the front line troops for the last 15 years...

Stranger still is that the gun in-game actually is the AK-47. The Chinese Type 56 Assault Rifle (the Type 56 Carbine is the SKS rifle, the Type 56 RPG is the RPG-2, and the Type 56 AAMG is the ZPU-4) has a fixed spike bayonette that can only be folded backwards, making it impossible to mount the GP-25. The other two versions of the Type 56 Assault Rifle that don't have the spike bayonette, the Type 56-1 and Type 56-2, both have folding stocks.

'[R-DEV wrote:Blackhawks (USMC only uses them for presidential/VIP transport).

There is a new 'Black Hawk' version that is being developed for the Navy, Army, Air Force and Marines. It combines the Army's baseline Black Hawk configuration with Naval Hawk engines, rotor system and dynamics, including the Seahawk's automatic rotor blade folding system, folding tail pylon, improved durability gearbox, rotor brake and automatic flight control computer. Because it is a hybrid of the Black Hawk and the Seahawk, the CH-60 presents a quandary for Sikorsky’s marketing strategy: what does one call the CH-60? A possibility being considered, partly in tribute to the H-46 Sea Knight that the CH-60 will replace, is Knighthawk. The Navy still has not assigned a type/model/series designation to the CH-60; the next letter available in the H-60 series is “S.” If used, the aircraft’s official designation would be CH-60S.

source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... /ch-60.htm

asiLLasiTgets wrote:As far as firearms go in the middle east it is a grab bag..

For assualt rifles Syria, Oman, jordan, Egypt, Iraq, and yemen use the AK47. Iran uses the Ak47 and the Fn Fal. Saudi Arabia uses the Hk G3. Kuwait, Lebanon, UAE use the M16. Pakistani militia use the AK47 while the Army uses the HK G3.

Light Machine guns commonly seen in this region are the Rpk, Rpd,Pkm,FN Mag,MG42/MG34,MG3. As hard as it is to believe, the MG42 is widespread, especially in pakistan.

As far as accurized rifles you need not go further than the Dragunov and the Mosin nagant.

But if those nations banded together and pooled their money (including oil money) to improve their equipment, what would they have as a result? That's kinda wha the whole MEC thing is. What I don't get is why, when they have so many rounds of 7.64x39mm ammo lying around, they'd switch to the RPK-74 and AKS-74U, which fire a smaller 5.45x39mm round, and the AK-101, which fires the 5.56 NATO round. Why not use the original RPK, the AKSMU and AK-103?
MEC:
ATGM - 9K113 Konkurs/AT-5 'Spandrel'. The HJ-8 is a Chinese missile.
Attack Helicopter - The Mi-28 should have 20 rockets per rocket pod (total of 40), unless they want to give it the B-8V7 pod, which only carries seven rockets. It should also have sixteen (not eight) 9M120 Ataka-V/AT-9 'Spiral 2' radio-guided anti-tank missiles.
Transport Chopper - When used in an assault transport role, the Mi-17 'Hip-H' usually carries rockets on stub ordinance 'wings.' In this regard, it should have 4 UB-16-57 rocket pods for S-5 57mm rockets on skeletal pylons, with 16 rockets in each launcher. This would help to even the playing field with the minigun-armed Black Hawk.
APC - An alternative to the BTR-90 would be the Fahd-30 AFV, which is built by the Arab Organization for Industrialization (AOI) based out of Egypt, making it a domestically designed vehicle in the Middle East.
Hand Grenade - Perhaps the Old F-1 hand grenade.
Spec-ops - Perhaps the AKMS, or the AK-104 instead of the AKS-74U.
Assault - With all their 7.64x39mm ammo they have, you'd think they'd be using the AK-103 instead of the AK-101.
Support - The RPK-74 is inappropriate, since it fires a 5.45x39mm round. The Middle East would have a much larger stockpile of 7.62x39mm ammo, so a better choice would be the older Kalashnikov RPK, which fired the old AK-47 7.62x30mm round. Iraq produced a licenced-built copy of the RPK known as the Al-Quds. It is a select fire weapon that usually fires a 30 round box magazine, but can obviously use a drum or quad-style clip. Another alternative would be the Yugoslavian produced M72 LMG, another weapon based off the AK-47. Yet another good option would be the Degtyarov RPD, an old LMG that was replaced by the RPK, but was widely exported to pro-Soviet countries. Also, the RPK is a select fire weapon, having single-shot capability.

China:
AA Missile - QW-2. Why would they be using a system that uses Arabic in its interface?
Transport Chopper - The Z-8A can carry a rocket pod on each side of the fuselage, preferably the UB-32-57 57mm rocket pod, with 32 rockets each. However, the Z-8A is proving to be unsatisfactory, and a more likely choice for the assault transport role would be the Z-9B Assault Transport, based on the Chinese copy (Z-9A) of the Eurocopter AS-365N Dauphin II.
Hand Grenade - The Chinese currently use the Type 86P hand grenade. Unfortunately, I can't find much information on this grenade.
Spec Ops - First off, the QBZ-97 is the EXPORT version of the QBZ-95, which is what China uses. The other problem with the name is that QBZ-95 is the name for the full length assault rifle version, the carbine is known as CAR-95.
Sniper -It should be noted that the factory production name of the Type 88 sniper rifle is the QBU-88.
Assault - The AK-47 should be replaced by either the Type 81 or the QBZ-95
Engineer - I wouldn't mind seeing the Omega SPS-12 in the game. It's basically an indigenous redesign of the M1 carbine into shotgun format, with an M-1 Carbine action and enlarged AK-style magazine and an AK-style magazine catch and release with a 5 round clip.
Support - The Type 95 LMG (it's drum size is only 75) should be renamed QBB-95 to distinguish it from the Type 95 Assault rifle. I'd also like to see the QJY-88 as perhaps something like a pick-up kit.

Here's a link to a pic of the whole Type 88 and Type 95 weapon family.

Addenum: And what's with only having one smoke grenade? Would it really unbalance the game if the assault guys could carry 3 or 4 of these things?

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-02-02 21:18

Welcome to the forums.

A lot of your points and suggestions have already been noted by myself and our other advisors in other discussions (5.45 vs 7.62mm, for example), but in regards to a couple of your statements/suggestions:

Xeno426 wrote:There is a new 'Black Hawk' version that is being developed for the Navy, Army, Air Force and Marines.

The M/CH-60S "Knighthawk" will only be in Navy service. The Army will be phasing in the UH-60M and the USAF is looking to replace its HH-60Gs with an as-yet undetermined aircraft. The Marines HMX-1 will be phasing in US101 (license-built EH101 Merlin) helicopters to replace the aging VH-3D Sea King and possibly some of their VH-60Ns. In the utility role the Marines have already settled on the UH-1Y; they've made it very clear they don't want the H-60 for anything other than "Special Air Mission."

Xeno426 wrote:Support - The RPK-74 is inappropriate, since it fires a 5.45x39mm round. The Middle East would have a much larger stockpile of 7.62x39mm ammo, so a better choice would be the older Kalashnikov RPK, which fired the old AK-47 7.62x30mm round. Iraq produced a licenced-built copy of the RPK known as the Al-Quds. It is a select fire weapon that usually fires a 30 round box magazine, but can obviously use a drum or quad-style clip.

You're correct that the Middle East Russian client-states that license-produced the Kalashnikov family of weapons (and their ammunition) have not made (and most likely would never make) the switch to 5.45mm M1974 cartridge.

The Al Quds actually does not use the drum magazines of the RPK; Jane's even classifies it as a "machine-rifle." However, the Iraqis (and many other states) have the regular RPK in their inventory.

As a side-note, it has been said several times that the stock BF2 setting/timeline may not always be what PR works with.

Xeno426 · Post by **Xeno426** » 2006-02-02 21:50

'[R-DEV wrote:Eddie Baker']
The Al Quds actually does not use the drum magazines of the RPK; Jane's even classifies it as a "machine-rifle." However, the Iraqis (and many other states) have the regular RPK in their inventory.

From what I've read, soldiers prefer the 60-round double-stacked (quad style) box magazine, since it isn't at bulky as the drum and doesn't make as much noise when you move.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-02 22:22

have not made (and most likely would never make) the switch to 5.45mm M1974 cartridge.

Too much 7.62 ammo around and ... well... they don't care about civilian and such stuff... so even in urban fights why not use 7.62? It is not about human rights ( if we can talk about them in war).. it is about firepower and ammo supply....
I love RPK btw ;]

Xeno426 · Post by **Xeno426** » 2006-02-03 03:12

Rifleman wrote:Too much 7.62 ammo around and ... well... they don't care about civilian and such stuff... so even in urban fights why not use 7.62? It is not about human rights ( if we can talk about them in war).. it is about firepower and ammo supply....
I love RPK btw ;]

Those weren't the primary reasons for switching to smaller-caliber rounds. It was discovered during WWII that most infantry engagements occurred between 100 to 200 yards, well below the maximum effective range of rounds like the 30-06 that the Garands used and the 7.62x54mmR rounds that the Mosin-Nagat used. By making the caliber smaller, they reduced recoil (making full auto much more controllable) without significantly affecting infantry combat performance. In addition, the 5.56 (and the Russian 5.45) round was made primarily to wound, not to kill. This, also, was not for humanitarian reasons. In the kind of conflict we were expecting with the Soviet Union, a long and drawn out war like the one we just had with the Germans, a wounded soldier consumes more resources than a dead one. Basic ghastly arithmetic.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-03 15:47

Basic ghastly arithmetic.

Russian army and arithmetic? eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
Well my country was under russian occupation for over 40 years... i doubt that they were good at it...but it is my opinion of course...

Xeno426 · Post by **Xeno426** » 2006-02-03 17:07

Rifleman wrote:Russian army and arithmetic? eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
Well my country was under russian occupation for over 40 years... i doubt that they were good at it...but it is my opinion of course...

It wouldn't be the grunts doing the math. Besides, the VietCong used this tactic on us quite successfully. Most of their booby traps maimed and wounded, not killed. Heck, punji sticks were designed for that.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » 2006-02-03 19:57

Heck, punji sticks were designed for that.

Why to hurt some1 when u can fall on him with 99999999999 tanks and 999999999 artillery rounds ;]]]]]

Xeno426 · Post by **Xeno426** » 2006-02-03 20:58

Question: Aren't the RPK and QBB-95 select fire weapons? Where's our single-shot option?