Project Reality Forums

gerardnm wrote:U must have been cussing either on TS or in the comms on screen (or an admin was in your squad).

I agree with the rule on profanity....ultimately you re playing with strangers so show some respect when talking

One thing I never got is - You can shoot a enemy in the head and watch blood come out but you can say "Shitload of guys coming from the south-east" without getting warned for language.

But they have made it clear that children's rules apply and if you don't like it you may play elsewhere.
I simply believe that the (single digit ) list of rules makes it to restrictive and such a restrictive atmosphere is not conducive to mature team play more a shadow of maturity imposed from above.
I have not seen and real problems with too much profanity and I don't think there is any damage to young minds from hearing( seeing) a few curse words especially when as DesertFox mentioned, we are killing and maiming people in the virtual world.
But it's their server and even though it stands alone in it's settings the server is always full so at least 64 people like the settings.

malv wrote:I agree. TG sucks. They'll kick you for just about anything other than playing poorly. I contributed so much in terms of squad and team leadership and they banned me for using profanity without warning. Fuck 'em.

Depending on the severity of the infraction and previous history, our admin team attempts to follow a warn/kick/ban policy.

In your case however, your previous bans were your warnings.

ArmedDrunk&Angry wrote:But they have made it clear that children's rules apply and if you don't like it you may play elsewhere.
I simply believe that the (single digit ) list of rules makes it to restrictive and such a restrictive atmosphere is not conducive to mature team play more a shadow of maturity imposed from above.
I have not seen and real problems with too much profanity and I don't think there is any damage to young minds from hearing( seeing) a few curse words especially when as DesertFox mentioned, we are killing and maiming people in the virtual world.
But it's their server and even though it stands alone in it's settings the server is always full so at least 64 people like the settings.

We have many players who actively play on our server and follow the rules who may or may not agree with every rules. This is one sign of a mature player. Intentionally attempting to break rules is not.

I'm one of those players who doesn't really care about the occasional use of profanity. However, there are players who would take this use too far. In this particular case it is an all or nothing rule.

As for the other rules, they can be broken down into a few simple statements.

1. Don't use profanity
2. Don't camp UCBs
3. Follow orders
4. Leadership (CO/SL) positions must lead
5. Don't bunnyhop
6. Do not suicide attack unless you're insurgent.

The first two listed are typically those rules where we'll never reach agreement by every player, however I would hope the last four would come naturally for project reality players. But alas, that is not always the case.

If following those simple rules is too much to ask, then Tactical Gamer is probably not the place to play.

I find it ironic that a server which has such a strict policy against profanity does virtually nothing against individuals that use the racist, derogatory term "raghead." Frankly, I find this to be offensive.

TG is good if you want to play on a server run by evangelicals. You know, the same group of people that find nothing wrong with wonton simulated violence, but have strict prejudice against mild profanity.

Are there any normal PR servers that enforce team play and aren't filled with militant nubjobs? So far the only servers I've been able to find have been the British servers that are occasionally filled at 2am. Here's to hoping that PR gains a larger server community.

You can always go play Walt Disney games or Telebubies....no profanity and no violent actions/scenes...

This is one sign of a mature player. Intentionally attempting to break rules is not
You see that is crux of my problem with TG.
The clear and repeated implication that if you don't like TG and it's rules you are not an mature or team oriented player.

I don't curse often or very much when I do and I play PR because it's based around teamwork.
I was attempting to rally team members to assist me and one other player who were keeping the gate up on Fallujah and I was banned for life for no stated reason with no warning.

I tried to follow procedures for re entry but the CD hash program couldn't find mine and I wasn't interested enough to find out why.
I don't regret that decision although TG seems to run my favorite map, Jabal, more often than other servers.

I was not "intentionally breaking the rules" and if I cursed it was censored so would have used " shyt" instead of shit and "Fvck" instead of fuck so as to preserve the tender eyes of your little little killers.

But I was definably not nice about my attempts to WIN THE GAME while a bunch of pussies sat on the cliff tops and tried to be Vasili the uber sniper.

You don't list the most important yet unwritten rule, be wary of power hungry adolescent admins which I would guess is the basis for most of your bans as opposed to kicks.
I have a feeling that my comments here would have resulted in a ban although I broke none of the TG rules I clearly offended the higher-higher and will not bow the implied superior maturity and teamwork on TG.

There are other servers that have teamwork and maturity and somehow all the players who are not on your server seem to have a good time playing without the rule structure.

I fully respect your right to admin your server as you see fit but I also reserve the right to call BS when your high horse seems to have reached it's operational ceiling.

I think the new challenges brought by 0.6 will make those rules obsolete as the community loses some of it's less patient and teamwork oriented players.





@Malv...................try DVB.... NA server and even when no DVB are on it attracts teamplayers.

ArmedDrunk&Angry wrote:This is one sign of a mature player. Intentionally attempting to break rules is not
You see that is crux of my problem with TG.
The clear and repeated implication that if you don't like TG and it's rules you are not an mature or team oriented player.

I went back and re-read my statement. I can see that I wasn't clear with the meaning. I didn't mean to imply that agreeing with the rules means you are or are not mature. The point I was trying to make is that players who know the rules but intentionally disregard them (because they don't like them) are not mature. The mature thing is abide be the defined rules or not player there.

Sorry for my confusing statement earlier.

I don't curse often or very much when I do and I play PR because it's based around teamwork.
I was attempting to rally team members to assist me and one other player who were keeping the gate up on Fallujah and I was banned for life for no stated reason with no warning.

I tried to follow procedures for re entry but the CD hash program couldn't find mine and I wasn't interested enough to find out why.
I don't regret that decision although TG seems to run my favorite map, Jabal, more often than other servers.

The admin team is very open to second chances, depending on the type of infraction. Bans sometime have to be handed out to get the players attention and direct them to the forums to read the rules. Many times a player that is kicked simply rejoins and the conversation between player and admin never takes place.

Even if you can't get the CD hash program to work, simply PM an admin with your in-game alias and we can look you up in the ban list.

I was not "intentionally breaking the rules" and if I cursed it was censored so would have used " shyt" instead of shit and "Fvck" instead of fuck so as to preserve the tender eyes of your little little killers.

This may get a player by the automated language filter, but this is still considered swearing and an admin will usually take action on words like this.

You don't list the most important yet unwritten rule, be wary of power hungry adolescent admins which I would guess is the basis for most of your bans as opposed to kicks.
I have a feeling that my comments here would have resulted in a ban although I broke none of the TG rules I clearly offended the higher-higher and will not bow the implied superior maturity and teamwork on TG.

Agreement and liking of the rules isn't a requirement to play on our server. Abiding by the rules is. If you feel that you shouldn't have been banned when it sounds like you clearly admin to breaking the rules, then you are free to PM an admin to discuss it.

You say you didn't break any rules, yet above you stated that you did. There seems to be some inconsistency in your statements.

There are other servers that have teamwork and maturity and somehow all the players who are not on your server seem to have a good time playing without the rule structure.

There are definitely other servers out there that are suited better for some individuals. We don't try to make the server perfect for everyone. Our rules define our sandbox and all we ask is that if you play in our sandbox you abide by the rules. If there are plenty of other servers out there that suit your needs, I fail to understand why you make a fuss about a server that clearly isn't a place you want to be playing.

I fully respect your right to admin your server as you see fit but I also reserve the right to call BS when your high horse seems to have reached it's operational ceiling.

I'd be happy to discuss where you feel we're riding a horse. If it was my earlier statement about rules and maturity, I apologize for it not being clear. I hope that I cleared up what I was trying to say in my first paragraph.

Again, all we ask is that you abide by the rules when on our server. I fail to understand what is difficult about that.

I think the new challenges brought by 0.6 will make those rules obsolete as the community loses some of it's less patient and teamwork oriented players.

We sure hope the next release allows us to remove some rules. We don't want a long list of rules and only make them when we absolutely have to.

I'm gonna ask that a admin lock this thread please since my original problem has been fixed and I have given an post saying it is resolved.

I personally have no problem with profanity, but if its banned on the server then I repect that, or go elsewhere if I am having a partcularly severe bout of tourrets. Ultimately its about respect, if I go to someone house and they expect me to take my shoes off before coming in, I will, although its not something I would do in my own home.

The argument re: a game with virtual violence banning swearing being hypocritical is ultimately flawed, the swearing over VOIP/in text is as real as if it were on the street or in a letter/email, the virtual violence is just that, virtual. As to it being a childish restriction, adults can find swearing equally if not more offensive than children. Part of their reason for being on that server might be to avoid such language. Again it about repecting other people.

I'm not trying to defend the rules per se, but more a server owners right to make reasonable rules. Nowhere do they say that if you don't follow their rules you are immature, it is more the fact that by following the rules teamwork and maturity are encouraged. TG is usually one of the sever on which I regulalry find teamwork. Not always mind you, on occasions it is a bad as many others. I'm prepared to put up with the rules if it means I get a good teamwork experience, the main reason I play the mod. And, although its an old chestnut i think the adage "if you don't like it, leave and find somewhere you do," is perfectly sensible. If you don't like the rules of the club, don't join!

[R-CON]|TG|asch I give you credit. You are the only one who actually answered the first poster as a responsible admin. Good job. Keep it up.

And on the topic unmotivated kicks? I think we all have had "WTF?" moments about kicks. It's not all personal. And if it is, it might just be that the admin had a bad day and wanted to show his might (+1 BS pickup (it looks remarkebly like a mine in bf2))

I personally have yet to come across a TG admin that hasn't revealed himself to be an asshead, except perhaps the aforementioned TG|asch.

Then again I am partially against anyone who supports the removal of swearing from a videogame in which you take part in shooting people, including civilians.

In addition to that, they have all these queer rules about not attacking certain flags and stuff despite the functionality being in-game and designed for such a purpose.

*Sigh*

IAJTHOMAS wrote:The argument re: a game with virtual violence banning swearing being hypocritical is ultimately flawed, the swearing over VOIP/in text is as real as if it were on the street or in a letter/email, the virtual violence is just that, virtual. As to it being a childish restriction, adults can find swearing equally if not more offensive than children. Part of their reason for being on that server might be to avoid such language. Again it about repecting other people.

And in what way is swearing not virtual? It's a word. It's power relies on the individual hearing it, and if they don't mind it, they will not be offended. It doesn't hurt a damned thing to swear, and it's a complete fiction if you want to get down to it, that a certain set of words is somehow entirely more hurtful than any other in a language. It depends on the person listening.

I respect an owners ability to create the rules they want to, but I certainly do question the wisdom of doing so for a game that would by definition attract someone desiring a more 'realistic' battle experience, especially in a society where by 13 (the age you have to be to purchase BF2 in the USA) pretty much everyone swears.

If I went over to someone's house and they took off their shoes inside and expected me to do the same, whether I would choose to would depend on the logic they used to come to that conclusion. If their carpet was clean and they wanted to keep it that way, I'd be perfectly happy to leave the shoes. If they had no carpet (or filthy carpet) but wanted me to take off my shoes, I'd be really skeptical and probably I wouldn't do it, or at least wouldn't want to.

Then again, as TG is one of the biggest, most lag free servers, I do tolerate the restriction just to get my fix.

Croix wrote: And in what way is swearing not virtual? It's a word. It's power relies on the individual hearing it, and if they don't mind it, they will not be offended. It doesn't hurt a damned thing to swear, and it's a complete fiction if you want to get down to it, that a certain set of words is somehow entirely more hurtful than any other in a language. It depends on the person listening.

If I went over to someone's house and they took off their shoes inside and expected me to do the same, whether I would choose to would depend on the logic they used to come to that conclusion. If their carpet was clean and they wanted to keep it that way, I'd be perfectly happy to leave the shoes. If they had no carpet (or filthy carpet) but wanted me to take off my shoes, I'd be really skeptical and probably I wouldn't do it, or at least wouldn't want to.

Swearing is not virtual as it is real Its really quite simple. If you can't see that then god help your sense of reality.

I agree that the relative effect of a swear word is dependant on who hears it, but on-line you can't tell who will and won't be offended by it. It causes no physical damage. The reason why somethings are and aren't offensive is really the irrelevant, the simple fact remain that it does offend some people (I have already stated I am not one of those people).

As for the carpet thing, if they had a dirty carpet I would think it was weird and not agree with it, as everyone is entitled to do, but I would still comply because it is their house and I want to enter it, therefore I do so under their conditions.

You say you either 'probably wouldn't so it' - Well most people would see that as incredibly rude and would probably stop you from entering the house if they saw the rule as being as important as there core server rules are to the server. However the server won't know you are refusing and can't deny you entry, so it kicks you out when it realises what you are doing. Fair enough.

Or you say, 'you wouldn't want to' - implying you would still do so, to respect their wishes. Your perfectly within your rights to not want to, but to not do it is beyond them.

In short: No one is disputing your right not to like their rules, but its their server and they don't care, so there's no point in discussing it. If you decide to play there despite the dislike, then do them courtesy of respecting their house rules during the stay.

Bottom line: If swearing in a video game causes anyone damage then they are destined for a mental institution anyway because the world has far more hurtful things in it than a few "dirty" words.

well now

IAJTHOMAS wrote:Swearing is not virtual as it is real Its really quite simple. If you can't see that then god help your sense of reality.

Swearing causes virtually no damage in reality unless a person with a tenuous grasp on reality happens to hear a swear. My sense of reality is fine, but you definitely need to work on your sense of what is important.

Some people are too sensitive, and if they can't hear a swear without being offended, they are in for quite a shitty life.

I agree that the relative effect of a swear word is dependant on who hears it, but on-line you can't tell who will and won't be offended by it. It causes no physical damage. The reason why somethings are and aren't offensive is really the irrelevant, the simple fact remain that it does offend some people (I have already stated I am not one of those people).

You can't tell who a swear is going to offend in real life either, and if a person is offended, it's their problem. The reason why things are and aren't offensive is exactly the core and the nature of my problem with the swearing rule. Reality shouldn't be offensive, it's an objective thing. People swearing is an objective reality, so people who are offended should deal with it and get over it instead of hitching up on it, crying victim, and covering their ears.

As for the carpet thing, if they had a dirty carpet I would think it was weird and not agree with it, as everyone is entitled to do, but I would still comply because it is their house and I want to enter it, therefore I do so under their conditions.

Right, as I said.

You say you either 'probably wouldn't so it' - Well most people would see that as incredibly rude and would probably stop you from entering the house if they saw the rule as being as important as there core server rules are to the server. However the server won't know you are refusing and can't deny you entry, so it kicks you out when it realises what you are doing. Fair enough.

Well this is an occasion where I think TG as well as the owners of the scummy-carpet household are fictionalizing reasons to get the shoes off of my feet.

Or you say, 'you wouldn't want to' - implying you would still do so, to respect their wishes. Your perfectly within your rights to not want to, but to not do it is beyond them.

This is the case when I play on TG and mind my manners because I'd like to play PR. It's got nothing to do with respecting the rules. It's merely observing the rules and acting accordingly. Rules should be established not only to create guidelines for play but to be respectable, something that people can agree with that unites them.

In short: No one is disputing your right not to like their rules, but its their server and they don't care, so there's no point in discussing it. If you decide to play there despite the dislike, then do them courtesy of respecting their house rules during the stay.

Right, I never said anyone was disputing my right to not like their rules. I was just calling you on your mistake, that taking offense to swearing means anything in objective reality, and that swearing is somehow different than other, more formal, less colloquial language. That's bollocks and I hope you realize it now.

Bottom line: If swearing in a video game causes anyone damage then they are destined for a mental institution anyway because the world has far more hurtful things in it than a few "dirty" words.

This I think is the real bottom line. And it begs the question, why does TG cater to the weak?

It is not about the words. That is only the letter of the rule imo. It is about the respect for a fellow player that is trying to have a good time.

I don't see how we can call a person we have never crossed paths with online a "insert whatever****" and expect him to feel respected.

After all these years an all the foul-mouthing on-line, I personally prefer to play where the same old conflicts are settled in a respectful way. Some call this a community.

It is about respect.
When you do something blatantly stupid and I call you a moron it is directly related to your lack of respect for all the other players on your team.
Nobody is defending behavior or language like the 10 BF video [ http://realitymod.com/forum/t21651-craz ... g-bf2.html ] but nobody is a perfectly emotionless machine and when somebody loses a valuable asset due to sheer stupidity or worse, smacktarderyness then you can reasonably expect a response.