Project Reality Forums

Expendable Grunt wrote:Not enough force from the round to cycle the bolt -- less explosive power I'd think

It's a bolt action rifle! YOU cycle the bolt. There is no difference in the supersonic vs the subsonic ammo except for the powder charge. Sub has a reduce powder charge and thus the bullet does NOT break the sound barrier. It's speed should stay below 1120 feet per second. When the bullet breaks the sound barrier, that is when the ear shattering boom is heard. No breaking of the sound barrier equals no super loud ka-boom. Sub sonic ammo even with a suppressor sounds like a clawing banging on a table. It's not a whisper sound like you hear in the movies. Hollywood and done so much to destroy reality.
The rounds are angled nose high in the magazine to make the rifle easier to feed. Does that answer your question about a round being cocked?

bunny wrote:actually...no. the point of a sniper is to not be SEEN. i dont think they care much about sound considering they hav a semi-auto .50 cal sniper rifle. as you can imagine, its not that quiet. but as you said earlier, the point is "Where did that come from!" exactly. however, there are some long-range rifles that use suppresors, such as the SPR

Yes, we/they did/do care about sound. Part of a good sniper hide is to consider how sound from your rifle will effect the enemy. The idea is to find a hide location that will cause the sound of your rifle to confuse the enemy as to your whereabouts. Using the echo to your advantage, and not your enemies.

Yes there are good long range sniper rifles with silencers installed. They have a different ballistics table that must be used. Also the zero of your weapon is changed when you use them. That's where you sniper log book and your meticulous notes from the rifle range come in handy.

Long Bow wrote:Sometimes the best shot for a sniper is no shot at all.

Amen to that! The Sniper team has a weapon system far greater than any rifle he can carry, and that is his radio. A Sniper team is also a Scout team. The greatest thing he can do for is unit is to report the situation so the commander can get a better picture of the enemy and his location. A SITREP or a SALUTE report if you will. Hell snipers can call in arty strikes or precision fire from Apaches helicopters, A-10 tank killers or even a 103 gunship. A sniper team can be one of the greatest scout assets on the battlefield without ever having fired a shot. A rifle company with a good commander that knows how to use snipers is a really hard thing to beat. However lots of times the commanders aren't fully aware of what a sniper brings to the table so there real talents end up getting wasted.

R

regardless, my point is this: how many sniper rifles do you see with suppressors/silencers? i, myself have only seen this in one case: it was a lone sniper who needed as much stealth as possible so he made an IMPROVISED silencer. plus, it was in a movie so it probably wasn't accurate at all.

bunny wrote:regardless, my point is this: how many sniper rifles do you see with suppressors/silencers? i, myself have only seen this in one case: it was a lone sniper who needed as much stealth as possible so he made an IMPROVISED silencer. plus, it was in a movie so it probably wasn't accurate at all.

"regardless, regardless". I've seen a couple sniper rifles with the ability to add a sound suppressor. Some have a threaded barrel adapter for the "silencer". You can use standard ammo with them, but it kinda defeats the purpose to do that. Subsonic ammo reduces the max effective range, but it will still work.

You hit the nail on the head that time. Please, please, please whatever any of you guys have ever thought you "learned" from a movie, unlearn it cause it's probably off by some great measurable distance. Movies, and the magic of Hollywood have done more to distort reality than just about anything else I can think of. Hell drugs don't distort reality as much as Hollywood has. The Rambo/Uber sniper **** you see on TV ain't REAL. Not even close. If you try most of it in a REAL world situation you will be "REAL" dead.
I liked watching "the unit" when it first came out, but it got to the point that it was sooooo far off base that it wasn't even halfway enjoyable for me. The first couple episodes were cool, but after that it got dumb real fast. This game PR that we all love to play is far more realistic than some Hollywood production.

Anyway, I leave you all to make up your own minds. See you on the battlefield. PR style that is

R

the boom is caused by the enormous pressure behind the round all of a sudden escaping out of the barrel. subsonic ammo is quieter because it has less powder is the round meaning less pressure which leads to less bang and ofcourse lower velocity. a normal suppresor works by having cavities lined all the way down it to absorb the pressure which leads to less pressure at the muzzle, which constitues a quieter bang while the round still has most of its original velocity.

'[R-CON wrote:Agent Johnson']the boom is caused by the enormous pressure behind the round all of a sudden escaping out of the barrel. subsonic ammo is quieter because it has less powder is the round meaning less pressure which leads to less bang and ofcourse lower velocity. a normal suppresor works by having cavities lined all the way down it to absorb the pressure which leads to less pressure at the muzzle, which constitues a quieter bang while the round still has most of its original velocity.

"The enormous pressure behind the round all of a sudden escaping out of the barrel" Where are you guys getting this stuff from. I'll tell ya what get some sound recording gear and then load up two cartridges in your trusty rifle. Make sure both are loaded with the same exact amount of gun powder. The only difference is that cartridge will have a bullet seated in it, and the other will be a blank. Now fire both rounds and see which one is WAY louder than the other. Gun powder does not explode it burns. That's why they don't use dynamite powder for gun powder. Blanks are loaded with the same amount of powder that live rounds are loaded with. However blanks aren't nearly as loud as a live round. And they are using a blank adapter to increase the pressure so the weapon will cycle properly. Why is that? It certianly isn't because of pressure escaping the barrel.
Please forgive me on this, but I won't be wasting any more time on these kinds of topics. Honestly where do you guys come up with this stuff. What's even worse this that you type it out with such pride. Nevermind you don't have to answer. Now I'm sorry I ever got into this. Like I said before, "don't teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig". I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just in a state of bewilderment over the crazy opinions I see sometimes. I'm sorry.

R


On a lighter note, I dig you avatar. It always make me laugh when I see it someplace.

Pretty much sums me up if I ever get my hands on a sniper rifle.

I usually just grab a 2L pop bottle and tape it to the barrel, insta-silencer, works like a charm.

Agree on this topic, dont know why Devs cant fx it, i mean not silenced but the sound not such different to other weapons or that work so that u cant hear from position they shoot but its for soundspecialists.


If Devs cant fix this then:

1.
give a sniper one claymore, before say no, think there on 64 server two enemy snipers means 2 enemy claymores, who cares about that on maps like kufrah, kashan, 7gates...........?

Only that player with lonewolf-rambo-style "im so cool, i run alone through enemy lines to kill their sniper and steal his rifle."
Its very unrealistic or did u see any us-soldier running 1 km alone through sadr-city or fallujah to kill iraqi sniper?

Give sniper a chance o defend himself against such stalkers, the map is not big enough to run always away, and the role of sniper is not marathon.




Or give a sniper a scorpion like militia SL has, maybe for us-sniper uzi/ingram?

2.
Limited kits as HAT, Sniper, DMR shouldnt be possible to capture by enemy.

I know what many would say, if a nub lose it blablaba, but what can a team for this when one or two of 32 players are maybe new or had not much luck with that?


3. Points for sniperkills should be lower. I dont see the point why 2-4 longrange kills should be more important for team then 15-30 normal kills.

Wait, does this mean you can't have a 3" silencer on a revolver that goes " pffut" ?

"The enormous pressure behind the round all of a sudden escaping out of the barrel"

I'm not a sniper but I think you misread that. You explanation of why you need a blank adapter sort of follows along with that statement.
The round is fired and exhaust gases along with sound leave the muzzle and the gas is diverted into the baffles of the suppressor which also lowers the sound.
That is how I understood the device to work.
I also understood that a suppressor on a weapon firing regular rounds was useful in that while the round would make the supersonic crack as it passed your head, you would not be able to locate the shooter as easily because the sound from the muzzle had been suppressed.
In addition, I have read that suppressors only work for a limited number or rounds before they lose effectiveness.

Either way, I would like to see the Mk12 come back as a limited kit on urban maps because it's fun and it is in the arsenal of real world armies, however infrequently used.

Metis-M wrote: Or give a sniper a scorpion like militia SL has, maybe for us-sniper uzi/ingram?

You DO know what this mod is called, right?

'[R-PUB wrote:bosco']You DO know what this mod is called, right?

Last time I was SL as militia i had SVD and scorpion or something like that. Because of that my suggestion. ops:

But what do u think one claymore(or infantry mine) is unrealistic?

.. yes

Metis-M wrote:Last time I was SL as militia i had SVD and scorpion or something like that. Because of that my suggestion. ops:

The Militia Officer has one, that is right.
But they are no conventional army.
US Snipers with Mac-10 would be a big no-no

Within a normal Infantry unit and it's support elements (as the basic structure of the PR kits presumes), silenced or suppressed weapons are not needed.

Snipers work as a Platoon (30 blokes) or Company (120 blokes) asset. They are usually part of the Plt or Coy HQ, and are tasked as such. Coy commanders are aware of the various general taskings Snipers are roled for, and use them to best effect within his Aim.

As *normal* snipers are usually within this relatively large conventional infantry element, there's no need for silenced weapons. Special Operations troops may or may not be issued with these weapons according to taskings given and the roles the carry out.

If you play PR during a normal 32v32 battle, it's pretty much what a Company level attack looks like up against a similar opposing force. As a sniper, you would be at the forward-most preferred firing position to provide harassing fire, accurate fire, and provide accurate support fire for assaulting elements of your company.

You would also have a spotter who doubles as your close support and is a trained sniper too, in case you go down or get injured. He'd tend to carry a normal rifle with UGL or M249.

Now, if you have ever experienced a Coy attack, you will know that with Mortors, Javelin ATs, NLAWs, GMPG, any attached armour elements, and the normal Infantry sections and platoons making successive assaults, they tend not to be the most subtle things in the world

This is a combined arms assault game. Not a sneaky-beaky I'M BEHIND U EATIN UR SUPPLIEZ game

I really can't understand why you care so much about the noise. In game as a sniper you spo 3-4 ppl enemy group - so you start to shoot - if you are a good sniper that means 3-4 dead enemies and noone around who can make you troubles in big maps especially.



So to be short - It is not bad to be a sniper it is bad to be a bad sniper!

'[R-DEV wrote:Gaz']
If you play PR during a normal 64v64 battle

x2

ok, ok, corrected 32v32 :s

Why did A_COLOHAN post vBF2 screenshots?

'[R-DEV wrote:Gaz']If you play PR during a normal 32v32 battle, it's pretty much what a Company level attack looks like up against a similar opposing force. As a sniper, you would be at the forward-most preferred firing position to provide harassing fire, accurate fire, and provide accurate support fire for assaulting elements of your company.

That came at a bit of a surprise.
If so I feel we should just have DM kits
The bolt-action from the sniper kit is not as good for that.

I made a pretty extensive post about "silencers" and subsonic ammunition on another thread. I know alot about silencers both "wet" and standard; I have manufactured silencers in the past. I have plenty of experience to comment here.

First, I will address the use of sub-sonic ammunition. It is impractical in a military situation, bottom line.

A subsonic bullet is for close range shooting as it lacks the velocity to do any significant damage at ranges typically associated with sniping. In fact, it lacks the range at all to engage at the ranges snipers are expected to engage targets at.

There are a few ways to make a bullet stay below the sound barrier, one is to reduce the powder and the other is to use slower burning powder. A combination of these two methods seems to be what commercial manufacturers of subsonic ammunition do.

I have never noticed more significant fouling inside the barrel than, say, regular shooting after a session with parabellum (subsonic ammo).

Also, I have never heard of subsonic ammo or its associated oils stressing a firearm, The opposite is true. A supersonic bullet will test the limits of the rifle's chamber and the speed of the bullet travelling down the barel can cause the metal of the bullet to weld into the lands and grooves of the rifle barrel. Gun oil will not harm your firearm or "warp" your barrel.

While I have never heard of using animal fat to lubricate a (modern) bullet before, White grease will help; guess it does the same thing.

Now on to silencers:

Silencers are not silencers. There is no way to "silence" a firearm. They are simply mufflers. When a bullet is fired, the nitrocellulose in the casing rapidly decomposes and turns to gas. AKA, it burns. This change causes heat and pressure. When the rapidly expanding, hot gasses leave the muzzle and impact with the cool air around the muzzle, sound results. Usually around 160 decibels.

The function of a silencer is to trap these expanding, hot gasses long enough for them to cool and make a less violent transition into the atmosphere.

FYI, Because a silencer is affixed AFTER the muzzle, it INCREASES accuracy of the weapon.

Now on to the part about the snipers using silencers: When a nato .308 round is fired, it leaves the muzzle at roughly 155 db (this varies from weapon to weapon). After having travelled only 15 feet the sound will have been reduced to 125 db. At ranges of 600 yards the sound of the bullet's impact will be the only thing audible. At this range the bullet will have dropped below the sound barrier. A silencer will be redundant.

Where a silencer does help is within a few meters of the sniper's location. But good snipercraft helps more.

If you think a silencer will save you when you climb onto a water tower behind enemy lines and fire at them from 150 meters, well, good luck.