Project Reality Forums

Urban maps:

7 Gates 16P
Oman 16P
EJOD 16P
etc.

[R-DEV]e-Gor wrote:So how about we add in a nice new city map, rather than use the bf2 map that has gameplay the furthest from PR you'll ever see in vanilla. Muttrah 2 or fallujah, anyone?

you forgot the battle for mogadishu :'(




Down w/ karkand, I played it the other day w/ a friend on his account getting him points. I just ran around as a medic and got scores up around 80 each round. And I havent played Vanilla in AGES [except that time I knifed DesertFox]

brummy.uk wrote:Urban maps:

7 Gates 16P
Oman 16P
EJOD 16P
etc.

1- You have totally missed the point of the urban/city/infantry map issue..

2- Calling these urban maps is like saying a transvestite is a woman just because they have a pair of tits....

[RANT]

DenniZ-NL wrote:One can only dream of a really large citymap... Urban warfare is a bit neglected in PR at the moment.

You have no idea how much I wanna reach out and give you a great big COW hug for bringing this up. Look, I love the 4km maps, but when you spend more time trying to get to the battle than shooting your gun it kinda ruins the S of FPS. I'm married with kids, and I don't have the time to commit to a 2-3 hour round every night, I want a game that can be played out in 30minutes tops (which is the main reason I've been playing more WIC than PR of late). When I downloaded .7 it took me 3 days before I actually got to score a kill, between walking, repairing, waiting for vehicles to spawn, getting used to the changes and rounds ending... it was killing me! In fact, I still haven't been able to fly yet.

[quote=""'[R-CON"]AfterDune;576771'] But for goodness sakes, never call it Karkand! [/quote]
Why not? KARKAND is arguably the most popular map on BF2. Load up vanilla one night and see hom many 24/7Karkand servers there are out there. Why would we not want to attach ourselves to something successfull? Lets face it, we're a small community, and if we don't attract new players we're gonna die out. I really appreaciate the great maps the DEV's have come up with, but we don't need to reinvent the wheel every single time here. Fine, call it North Karkand, or what ever, just give me a CQB map.

[quote="Spec_Operator""]The problem with a map named "karkand" is that strike at karkand is the classic fragfest-, instaprone-, bunnyhop- and fire-30-rounds-hit-5-times-and-still-get-knifed map. [/quote]
Is that a problem with the map or the game? Look, all these things you guys are whinning about have been slowly eliminated with PR! That's why we are here, we didn't like the way BF2 was played, but there's nothing wrong with the map itself. Yes Karkand brings out some of the very worse 7331 whores and haxors, but it was also my personal favorite map (along with Jalalbad) before I discovered PR and I'm guessing there are at least a few of you out there who felt the same. You get a decent 4 man squad, all on TS of even VoIP and you could have a blast in that map.

~KILL~....Pirate-X wrote: 2- Calling these urban maps is like saying a transvestite is a woman just because they have a pair of tits....

A-FREAKIN-MEN Brotha!
[/RANT]

[TAUNT]
I CHALLENGE THE DEV's to bring back the fast paced CQB which drew many of us to BF2 in the first place. Give me a map where asymetrical fast paced combat can take place and the winner is decided inside a half hour. Let me have narrow streets for kill zones, a defined objective, and big storm drains to catch all the blood. A place where you approach the fountain square, you slide to the edge of your chair, grip you mouse a little tighter, and find you have to consciously relax your jaw mussles cause you know the ambush is coming soon, just not where or when. COW's don't have a chance in the open, but we can be dastardly beasts in the city streets. You give me a CQB map and you will learn to Fear the Moo all over again.
[/TAUNT]

Liquid_Cow wrote:[RANT]


You have no idea how much I wanna reach out and give you a great big COW hug for bringing this up. Look, I love the 4km maps, but when you spend more time trying to get to the battle than shooting your gun it kinda ruins the S of FPS. I'm married with kids, and I don't have the time to commit to a 2-3 hour round every night, I want a game that can be played out in 30minutes tops (which is the main reason I've been playing more WIC than PR of late). When I downloaded .7 it took me 3 days before I actually got to score a kill, between walking, repairing, waiting for vehicles to spawn, getting used to the changes and rounds ending... it was killing me! In fact, I still haven't been able to fly yet.


Why not? KARKAND is arguably the most popular map on BF2. Load up vanilla one night and see hom many 24/7Karkand servers there are out there. Why would we not want to attach ourselves to something successfull? Lets face it, we're a small community, and if we don't attract new players we're gonna die out. I really appreaciate the great maps the DEV's have come up with, but we don't need to reinvent the wheel every single time here. Fine, call it North Karkand, or what ever, just give me a CQB map.


Is that a problem with the map or the game? Look, all these things you guys are whinning about have been slowly eliminated with PR! That's why we are here, we didn't like the way BF2 was played, but there's nothing wrong with the map itself. Yes Karkand brings out some of the very worse 7331 whores and haxors, but it was also my personal favorite map (along with Jalalbad) before I discovered PR and I'm guessing there are at least a few of you out there who felt the same. You get a decent 4 man squad, all on TS of even VoIP and you could have a blast in that map.



A-FREAKIN-MEN Brotha!
[/RANT]

[TAUNT]
I CHALLENGE THE DEV's to bring back the fast paced CQB which drew many of us to BF2 in the first place. Give me a map where asymetrical fast paced combat can take place and the winner is decided inside a half hour. Let me have narrow streets for kill zones, a defined objective, and big storm drains to catch all the blood. A place where you approach the fountain square, you slide to the edge of your chair, grip you mouse a little tighter, and find you have to consciously relax your jaw mussles cause you know the ambush is coming soon, just not where or when. COW's don't have a chance in the open, but we can be dastardly beasts in the city streets. You give me a CQB map and you will learn to Fear the Moo all over again.
[/TAUNT]

Well said after all wasn't PR supposed to be the "real" BF2? So why leave out one of its best maps. Plus every single map doesn't have to be a run around forever to find the fight for 30+ plus minutes before you even get any real fighting, I know the insurgentcy mode is a nice break from this but come on even in real life military operations there is fast paced CQB. When a military unit moves into a city "like karkand for example in BF2" they are going to strike fast and the fight is on. Its not alwways about starting 400+ meters back and spreading everything out so traveling sometimes is more of a factor than fighting. Sure this is realistic sometimes but not every time.

In WW2 or Vietnam when they found the enemy location directly did they travel around forever? No it was direct clash of forces combat, where US soldiers would mow down the Vietnamese as they came it in it was hectic gruesome battle all over.

Fast paced combat is realistic in military situations then. Of course it doesn't happen all the time though, look at patrols in Iraw they have to search for the enemy. Though its not that WAY all the time.

Karkand would be great to make PR the "real" BF more of the real BF2. It can work with some changes, so bring us karkand and some more fast paced combat, like Cow said takes 30 mins. It could be a good breakup from other maps that last a long time.

And Yes I mean the real karkand not some renamed map.

I will vote for Yes, bring back karkand if the DEVS, will modificate the current karkand, whit more open terrain, for tactics and stuff, also a "Destroyable Village" in the outskirts and a Helo Base

Also, the flag called "Hotel" the bulding called Hotel can be modificated, i mean, modding a interior, whit stairs, rooms and halls, possible? it will be cool

Karkand is the face of vanilla. PR wants to get away from vanilla as far as possible, so PR and Karkand is not a match, really.

I'm aware of the fact that Karkand is the most played map on vanilla, but do you know where it stands for? Unrealistic run 'n gun spawnbitching n00bitry!

I agree with the urban warfare thing, I love it, but don't call it Karkand. Brings back awful memories! (to me and most of the PR people)

Edit: one other thing:

I CHALLENGE THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO PLAY KARKAND, TO CREATE A NEW MAP THEMSELVES FOR CLOSE QUARTER COMBAT IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT AND WHICH ALSO FITS IN PR PERFECTLY!

Thank you for you attention.

Karkand is really only the most popular map because you can do one of two things very effectively
A) Spam grenades and bunny hop (smacktardish activities)
B) Snipe

Now seeing as how neither of these should be a problem on PR what's the real problem with it?

P.S. Afterdune: awful memories?? You should trying putting down a line of c4 and taking out the all the U.S. armor

Despite the fanaticism, there's really no reason why you couldn't make some fun versions of Karkand that would work in PR. Obviously the devs won't do it, but a 3rd party mapper could, like maybe Hfett?

Not only is Karkand the most stupidly overplayed map in BF2, I question the intelligence of the people still back in vanilla BF2 who love it and I will probably never take them seriously. I'm reading this thread so I know who to never pay attention to.

[snip]

Hehe, thanks .

Totally edited so that it complies with any rules that may have been stretched. Double checked twice btw on that edit, I think we can both be sure that it's within the bounds.

[quote=""'[R-CON"]AfterDune;577628']I CHALLENGE THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO PLAY KARKAND, TO CREATE A NEW MAP THEMSELVES FOR CLOSE QUARTER COMBAT IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT AND WHICH ALSO FITS IN PR PERFECTLY![/quote]
I would gladly accept that challenge, but since I am not a mapper, and every attempt at me editing a map has resulted in a hard reboot of my PC, and I don't have the time to commit to remapping, I just can't do it.

Besides, its already been done. There have been several maps which came and went here which allowed for some frantic CQB. The most resent one was a short street with only 3 approaches and just a hand full of CP's, the name of which I cannot recall. I loved that map, it was pure carage. I kept getting killed when I slipped in the blood and hit my head, I loved it! But allas, its gone now

[quote="Tostitos""] I question the intelligence of the people still back in vanilla BF2 who love it and I will probably never take them seriously. I'm reading this thread so I know who to never pay attention to.[/quote]

You know I could take this personally and act all childish about it, but I'll pretend I'm a grown up for the moment and point this out...

Those people back in vBF2 are there to play a game. They like to play games. This is a game. This game does not have as many players as BF2, which may not be all that bad of a thing, but if we want to grow the community we need to attract those people of questionable intelligence to the mod, show them the true light, as it were. Without all the people here who converted, what would the mod be? So while you may question them, I see them as potential recruits who should be courted, then sorted, and finally sucked into our happy little world here. I feel that a high quality CQB map would be just the place to do it.

But the thing is, the mod wouldnt be attracting people because of its devotion to realism, it would be attracting the noob nade spamming players from vbf2 who want to play Karkand with new toys.

Attracting vbf2 players with a vbf2 map is just a bad and, forgive me, stupid idea. This mod isnt here to give players new fun exciting and fun content. Thats just a result when you love realism

What PR needs to do to get/ keep its growing fanbase is to continue to release never-before seen content and maps which push the engine to its limits and push players to grow tactically. We dont need to cater to the vbf2 community to coax them to play PR. Thats just a bad idea in general. Make a new map with some sweet street battles and Im all for it, but I think making a karkand for that purpose s just a bad idea.

Now, if its for SP, or even just released under the radar, thats ok but we shouldnt banner ad a new leet karkand map to draw in players.

Honestly, Im against Karkand in PR in any way shape or form, but that's not for me to decide. Besides, I think there's something about editing maps from EA, isnt there? Id imagine it'd be along the same lines as editing their blackhawk, m16, etc.

First, I salute you Liquid Cow on your posts, I couldnt agree more with everything you said. Second, Tostitos.... Do you think any of us give a rats *** who you are paying attention too or not on this forum...grow up. Makito, you are saying that PR is for realism and therefore the reason for staying away from Karkand, well whether you like the map or not, take it from someone who has been to Iraq, Karkand is more real than any map ever created for BF2...vanilla or not. Urban street battles like Karkand happen every fkn day there...that is realism. How is a soldier walking for 10 minutes to catch up to his squad (aka fools road, Quinling, Kashan Dessert) realism if you want to make that point..
I love this mod and have much respect for all the people involved in putting it together, but as many threads have posted concerns as to realism versus fun and exciting, that is the main issue. There are alot of us mature older players here on PR that love Karkand style maps and feel that this is totally lacking now because of the " lets get as far away from any vanilla or urban/infantry map as possible" thinking. I love the realism aspect of PR, but where is the line between realism and borderline boring at times. Infantry is the heart and soul of any war sim, and I hope that in the future that PR goes in this direction as far as maps and gameplay.....

This thread is about Karkand for PR, not YARVFAMSASETDPRPD* thread!

(yet another realism versus fun and my sl's are sh!te enough to don't put rally points down)

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. Let's please keep this thread about Karkand for PR and why people think it's cool and others think it's not and let's not go on about other things. There are a shitload of other threads that discuss that already, most of them locked now, due to people saying things they shouldn't.

I don't care to see Karkland come back because of the aforementioned side effects. I all about getting some tight-nit urban maps going on . I know some new ones are in the pipe and coming...I think with a few updates to the deviation/weapons and a reduction to the nade throwing distance...we will see some AWESOME and realistic fights going on. I really think it will be a welcomed addition in diversity to many PR fans.

~KILL~....Pirate-X wrote:First, I salute you Liquid Cow on your posts, I couldnt agree more with everything you said. Second, Tostitos.... Do you think any of us give a rats *** who you are paying attention too or not on this forum...grow up. Makito, you are saying that PR is for realism and therefore the reason for staying away from Karkand, well whether you like the map or not, take it from someone who has been to Iraq, Karkand is more real than any map ever created for BF2...vanilla or not. Urban street battles like Karkand happen every fkn day there...that is realism. How is a soldier walking for 10 minutes to catch up to his squad (aka fools road, Quinling, Kashan Dessert) realism if you want to make that point..
I love this mod and have much respect for all the people involved in putting it together, but as many threads have posted concerns as to realism versus fun and exciting, that is the main issue. There are alot of us mature older players here on PR that love Karkand style maps and feel that this is totally lacking now because of the " lets get as far away from any vanilla or urban/infantry map as possible" thinking. I love the realism aspect of PR, but where is the line between realism and borderline boring at times. Infantry is the heart and soul of any war sim, and I hope that in the future that PR goes in this direction as far as maps and gameplay.....

Im not arguing against good "bloody" infantry city maps, and I never claimed to be an expert on Iraq affairs. Nor do I care to. But I am of the strong opinion that bringing Karkand back into PR is just a bad idea. Not for realisms sake, I could care less how real or unrealistic Karkand is, but because of the fact that it, truthfully, would be a big draw for vBF2 players to PR who would just want to 'noob' it up on PR's Karkand, nade spamming, etc. I wouldnt even be surprised if some Vets got back into old habits That's not my main reason for being against it, however...

And why on earth, with all the great things PR has accomplished, and in doing so, moved so far ahead of BF2, would we want to harken back to something we strove so hard to get away from? A totally unrealistic, nade spamming, revive-fest on a city map that really only has one main road that serves as little more than a ridiculous bottleneck for infantry.[even if the outer sand was added]

I say, get to mapping, everyone, and make PR some great, realistic, amazing, bloody fun urban maps for .8 and onwards, but DON'T try to haul Karkand back into it.

Thats just one man's opinion. There are varying viewpoints.

And I have no comment as to walking 10 minutes on PR maps other than set a rally point.

lol, all the stuff people are saying badly about Karkand... Street had those issues and worse, and yet it was deemed good enough for PR until recently. Meanwhile you have a map like Sunset City that is still in PR (and I'm glad), and are you saying that Sunset City is really all that different from Karkand?

And you're complaining about the vBF2 gameplay... Do you think that if Karkand was loaded in PR the gameplay would magically change and not be PR anymore? All of a sudden you could put claymores everywhere... And Okita, you make the silly stretch to say that it would be illegal to have Karkand just to support your ideas about it, but it would be no different than having Gulf of Oman or Zatar which are still in PR, and certainly no different than having .. um... KARKAND which used to be in PR lol.

The ONLY reason why a mapper would do a Karkand for PR is because guys, it's WAY, WAY, *WAY* easier to do Karkand for PR than it is to make a brand new map. If it was just as hard to do a Karkand for PR as it was to make a new map then I would definitely say there is NO point in doing it - but it's not.

I'd like to see Karkand in PR, but I don't really care that much about it - I just think those who are being so against it are being silly and that their reasons for not wanting it are kind of crazy. I feel like making Karkand for PR just to annoy you guys hahahaha...

I agree. The fun, PRwise, of Karkand, is the high number of tight streets all over the place. The map, without borders, is a great option for Insurgency gameplay (Think about it, a large city, open desert spaces, and a factory.. Al basrah anyone?) and if nerfed a bit, for 32 players AAS.

Why would it be different than vBF2?
-No more claymore mines
-No more uberl33tz spec ops class, now limited
-Longer respawn times = less fragging
-No bounds = Less frags in the streets, more RPs from afar
-No more run and gun/instaproneheadshot because of new aiming system
-No more rocket spamming (Light AT limited)
-No more fast respawn on SL/Flag : Spawn only on RP, Main, FB/B
-No more tons of ubersnip3rz (Sniper kit limited)
-No more ... Post too long? lol

PR has changed the whole gameplay.. How do you expect Karkand to be as spammed as in vBF2? Nade spam? It's the same for every urban map in PR actually, not just for a Karkand Audit.
Like said before, maybe an Audit made by the comunity, to see how it goes, and if it's good, have a word with the devs.