Loadout fixes to make some classes intresting.

danshyu · Post by **danshyu** » 2008-01-25 20:08

Yeah, the ammo carrier riflemen class definitly need more perks added to make it more attractive. At the moment few people would take it. If the team needed ammo they'd just run to the rally and pick up a SAW.

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-01-25 20:12

The kit doesn't have to be attractive, why should people use it? Only if the SL needs an ammo resupply, or something else. I prefer it above the scoped one.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2008-01-26 05:02

Jonny wrote:As for the unrealisticness:
No one is issued ironsights as far as I know in the british army. I could be wrong, but I am quite sure I read on these forums that all soldiers are issued a SUSAT. This is also stated on wikipedia in the article titled 'SA80'. Therefore any L85 without one is unrealistic.

Iron-sights are issued to Royal Engineers and Medical Corps personnel. They are also issued to infantrymen in jungle warfare and other environments where the SUSAT has a tendency to fog-up.

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Icehollow, shotguns are special purpose weapons not issued in all circumstances by any conventional army, but among the things they are issued for is military police/security forces operations (including perimeter security and riot control) MOUT/FIBUA (for breaching), VBSS and jungle warfare. The British learned in Malaysia how effective the shotgun can be in jungle close-combat. You can sometimes see the Brunei resident Royal Gurkha Rifle battalion with a shotgun in their rifle sections.

Pain, a breacher kit like you described would probably be limited, like the grenadier, or a pick-up on certain maps. To all- Pain is correct in that the designated breacher in a unit will often carry a shotgun in addition to the service rifle, the shotgun being used during the breach and room clearing. Since the breacher carries other tools for mechanical and explosive breaching, he would be interesting to play if more destructible doors and other points (places to create mouseholes, etc.) were included on maps. But until that happens, I don't see the shotgun becoming a secondary weapon anytime soon.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 12:14

no breacher kit, that was just one of the use

A counterpart to the scoped rifleman for long + mid dist should be the non scoped rifleman + shotgun for short and mid distance.

unlimited!!

Shotgun only classes are totaly sensless in pr. And the non scoped rifleman is just a fucking supporter with the firepower of a medic or engineer.

If shotguns handed out they always give as 2nd gun for close combat. (pointman)
In the game i would limit ammo for shotgun sidearm.

did you read the whole thread? you should start read at 1 to 3,

btw what you think about the 2nd class change i suggested?

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-01-26 12:30

Pain, this is still:

Project REALITY!

Giving a shotgun to riflemen which belong to the very base of infantry, is just as unrealistic as a zombie mod.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 12:37

brummy.uk wrote:Pain, this is still:

Project REALITY!

Giving a shotgun to riflemen which belong to the very base of infantry, is just as unrealistic as a zombie mod.

Why? Give arguments or reasons....

I think a rifleman non scoped with a sidearm shotgun isnt unbalanced.

- he will get a specialisation for close combat

- hes stronger in close combat

- he not get stronger in mid+ range

- the loadout is realistic

- it will bring shotguns back to game without make a useless or unrealistic shotgun only class

- he would be the perfect counterpart to the specialisation of the scoped rifleman for mid+ range

- the class would be more intresting instead to be a 2nd choice if the automatic rifleman is not avaiable

- for the limited ammo of max 16 shells and just buckshot ammo he cant use his sidearm useless except of his close combat role in urban or dense jungle area

- in all other kind of terrain he will be just a supporter like medic and engineer with the same firepower on mid+ range

thats my arguments, give yours against it. then we can discuss them

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2008-01-26 12:46

Ehm...he isn't talking about balance. He's talking about realism. In real-life, people just don't get issued shotguns all the time, sorry.

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-01-26 12:53

Pain wrote:Why? Give arguments or reasons....

I think a rifleman non scoped with a sidearm shotgun isnt unbalanced.

- he will get a specialisation for close combat
Iron sights are very easy to use in Close Engagements compared to scopes, it is basically a CQB kit.

- hes stronger in close combat
He already is stronger in close combat at this point.

- he not get stronger in mid+ range
That's true, but what would be the use of the Shotgun if the rifle is fine for and CQB and Mid range.

- the loadout is realistic
Source? There is no such thing as normal squaddies having a shotgun as a sidearm. I doubt if there are even any kind of soldiers that have such loadouts. Except for special forces or something

- it will bring shotguns back to game without make a useless or unrealistic shotgun only class
What's unrealistic about an Engineer having a shotgun in jungle warfare where shotguns are used?

- he would be the perfect counterpart to the specialisation of the scoped rifleman for mid+ range
Still, unrealistic. You can fight scoped riflemen with the current kit loadout as well.

- the class would be more intresting instead to be a 2nd choice if the automatic rifleman is not avaiable
I love the kit, and I never request an Automatic Rifleman, it's fine as it is. The kit shouldn't be interesting or for players to pick. It should be useful when the squad needs it.

- for the limited ammo of max 16 shells and just buckshot ammo he cant use his sidearm useless except of his close combat role in urban or dense jungle area
You wouldn't use a shotgun in long range anyway..

- in all other kind of terrain he will be just a supporter like medic and engineer with the same firepower on mid+ range
Still, unrealistic with the shotgun. People will still use the shotguns.

thats my arguments, give yours against it. then we can discuss them

There.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 12:57

Pain wrote:You played COD4 SP Part? Ok its a arcade game but with an realistic setting.

The marines ground units you play in those middle east setting....

A few of them got a shotgun as sidearm to break doors and go on point in close quarter combat. The shotgun as 2nd is a usual loadout.
If assault squads operate in urban area there will be a shotgun on the back of min. 1 guy in the squad... Trust me! Maybe not for some patroling or escort/defend units. But if they need to go in, they will have some...

PR is atack based game. There are no soldiers just hanging around roadblocks or just on patrol. Thats even time a military operation at each map, no normal 08/15 duty...

So the squads are normaly equiped for all issues, incl close quarter combat...

And a limited ammo shotgun would be much more balanced like this one:

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-01-26 13:01

Jonny wrote:Actually brummy, scopes have less recoil when zoomed in. I assume it was a mistake and will be fixed soon *hint to DEVs*.

Still, iron sights are handier, IMO. No 4x zoom, which is kinda hard to aim with if your enemy is only a few yards away. With Iron Sights you don't have to spray.

Pain, like I said, no soldiers use that except special forces. Riflemen are the lowest grunts that you can get. They have no shotguns as a side-arm.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 13:25

brummy.uk wrote:
Iron sights are very easy to use in Close Engagements compared to scopes, it is basically a CQB kit.

compared to scope yes, but any other class has same firepower
at the moment a saw is better than a medic eng n/s rifle in cqb

He already is stronger in close combat at this point.
No he got nades but hes not stronger in cqb firepower and the loose against saw with nades too

That's true, but what would be the use of the Shotgun if the rifle is fine for and CQB and Mid range.

i said only buckshot no slugs so just close range

Source? There is no such thing as normal squaddies having a shotgun as a sidearm. I doubt if there are even any kind of soldiers that have such loadouts. Except for special forces or something

look my last post

What's unrealistic about an Engineer having a shotgun in jungle warfare where shotguns are used?

ok whats with all other maps except the 2-3 jungle ones?

Still, unrealistic. You can fight scoped riflemen with the current kit loadout as well.

Thats the point but only in cqb, and in md+ he will get a big disatvantage. But for that he got same firepower then all other support units like medic or eng (and it will stay, but he will get a + in cqb)

I love the kit, and I never request an Automatic Rifleman, it's fine as it is. The kit shouldn't be interesting or for players to pick. It should be useful when the squad needs it.

that point is big discussed a few sides in front with supressing fire squad advantages by saw etc...

You wouldn't use a shotgun in long range anyway..

Only short range because just buckshot no slug for mid range and just 16 shells (like the pilot pistol with 2 clips... (would u use to engage with that kit?)

Still, unrealistic with the shotgun. People will still use the shotguns.

nope, coz just 1 type ammo, 16 shells only bla bla

with ironsights youre right

i really dont think its unrealistic

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2008-01-26 14:11

Pain, did you even bother reading Eddie Baker's post? As he pointed out, they are issued -sometimes-, they're not issued as a standard kit.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 14:18

[R-MOD]dunehunter wrote:Pain, did you even bother reading Eddie Baker's post? As he pointed out, they are issued -sometimes-, they're not issued as a standard kit.

hes wrong

squads decision (same as in game my squadleader would say we need close quarter guy with shotgun for pointman)

so in rl you sl can say i want one in my squad and you can take one on your own with you any time! see the big urban patrol pic, hes carrying 5 reserve shells on west. thats no special forces....

and at the time there are NO shotguns ingame at non jungle maps, and thats much more unrealistic in my eyes. watch the pics and maybe you will see what i try to say at all.
i think its the best and most realistic way to bring them back into game without unbalance anything.

P.s. what you think about my 2nd class fix? (starts page 1 + you really read the whole thread or the first 4-5 pages)

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-01-26 14:35

hes wrong

Are you serious? Don't be an idiot. It is partly the squad leader's decision, but it only becomes his decision if they are first AVAILIBLE.

If you're not playing the rifleman AB class already, adding a CQB weapon to it will not help. I wouldn't mind some additions to the class, but overall it serves a purpose.

he would be interesting to play if more destructible doors and other points (places to create mouseholes, etc.) were included on maps.

Can we expect the ability to make mouseholes? That would be frickin awesome!

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 14:53

BloodBane611 wrote:Are you serious? Don't be an idiot.

Yes hes wrong

BloodBane611 wrote: It is partly the squad leader's decision, but it only becomes his decision if they are first AVAILIBLE.

They are avaiable in each military camp where the duty starts, its a usual usmc standard gun. If the squadleader decides his squad need one they have to take one with them. But you can take any own sidegun with you on patrol. A extra pistol a sawed off or short pumpgun on your back. ALL

Thats the big loadout at one of the pics, if they engage they drop the loadout (^^rallypoint^^) and theyre going in with less weight....

BloodBane611 wrote: If you're not playing the rifleman AB class already, adding a CQB weapon to it will not help. I wouldn't mind some additions to the class, but overall it serves a purpose.

did you read all?
it would make the class more specified not unbalanced or unrealistic
at the moment the class is just placeholder and its in use if the automatic rifleman kits are out

what purpose you mean?

BloodBane611 wrote: Can we expect the ability to make mouseholes? That would be frickin awesome!

I think its not possible with the engine (whats mouseholes? mean fox?)

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-01-26 14:59

Everybody says you're wrong but you still disagree. Let me say again:

It is UNREALISTIC! Pictures that you have posted are from soldiers that break and enter house doors, which is not happening in PR! It is not a standard thing!

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2008-01-26 15:00

Pain, I would really like to know where you gained your knowledge. Are you serving or have you served within the past couple of years?

Pain · Post by **Pain** » 2008-01-26 15:04

brummy.uk wrote:Everybody says you're wrong but you still disagree. Let me say again:

It is UNREALISTIC! Pictures that you have posted are from soldiers that break and enter house doors, which is not happening in PR! It is not a standard thing!

hahaha the usual thing why a shotgun is in use is cqb not break doors!

thats a extra feature and the pics are just to show that they were carry by non special forces in normal duty and so theyre more realistic in my eyes as i said instead of no shotguns ingame except of 2-3 jungle maps as primary gun

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-01-26 15:06

Pain wrote:hahaha the usual thing why a shotgun is in use is cqb not break doors!

thats a extra feature and the pics are just to show that they were carry by non special forces in normal duty and so theyre more realistic in my eyes as is said instead of no shotguns ingame except of 2-3 jungle maps as primary gun

I'm telling you, all those engagements are in CQB, right?

1. Why don't they use the shotgun as primary weapon but carry it on the back instead? Because it's for breaking doors

2. Why do they have the rifle as primary weapon? Because it's a fine CQB weapon.

3. They are only available in such situations or jungle warfare or some special forces!