Remove squad rally points?

[BabaGurGur]

Wow, I can't believe 13 ppl voted to take it out? Do you know the pain that I have felt, after loosing horribly on basrah, no rally points, all vehicles blown up, we had a C2 but no one would take it out because we knew they had IED's set up, the whole british team was inside the base except for our lone sniper, who was killed just as the game came to a end, WITH NO TRANSPORT vehicles, many, MANY maps can get very dull, very fast.

[LordSquiffy]

I've played in quite a few rounds where my SL either won't or can't create firebases and bunkers. I spent many a time walking right across a map because of this. If I'm shot and respawn at base I'm not about to jump into a transport on my own just so I can get back into the fray, so I either wait.....and wait...and wait, or I start walking.

Realism is fine, and ultimately the reason we're in PR and not BF2V, but it's still just a game and although the countryside is often very pretty to look at as I stroll along, thats not the experience I am hoping for in a FPS.

I voted NO to removing rally points. Other's concerns re rally points are understandable, but I'm fed up with walking on my own all the time. Lets keep/reinstate rally points and keep the game flowing.

[Sadist_Cain]

What's the concensus on limited rally points? I like that idea of only having 1 rally point to set each life I have or having a 20 minute time limit on it or summin

Right now I just run in formation and **** out magic respawn points like a horse after a curry whilest my soldiers run ahead firing off L-AT rockets at cars, taking lone wolf shots at soldiers they see just because they're there, giving themselves away to be shot and magically respawn on my rally turd.

I'd loooove to see Rallys removed but people don't have enough faith in other people (which is a vicious circle) to build Firebases and bunkers where and when needed.
At least limited rallys can get rid of the **** of having a rally right next to the flag, I'd say boost the distance to 200 aswell or something.

A lot of it is just common sense I;ve played with many good players who perhaps were back at main base when we had a seat left in our landrover halfway across the map, rather than ask for a lift they'll rather just waste another one bringing in "reinforcements"

-Once again the main objection is people not caring. The reason crappy SLs and COs are numerous is because people just want to run around shooting each other instead of working together. I do agree that RPs shouldn't all be dependent on the CO but understand this; I'm not saying drop the RP and that's it, other alterations need to be made as well. The aim is to make teamwork rewarding, to make it necessary.

well said.

Some limits of sorts need to be placed on rally points, How about making the Rallypoint dissappear after a certain amount of time?

EDIT: Dosn't anyone think it's just a lil crappy that when you drop a JDAM on a flag 30 seconds later the squad respawns 150m away... from a 2000lbs bomb, instead of reinforcements having to organise and drive, fly, run in to the area

[LordSquiffy]

Sadist.....Lucky for your squad members that you DO create respawn points.........in my limited experience in PR, you're very much in the minority mate.

[Tartantyco]

-Once again the main objection is people not caring. The reason crappy SLs and COs are numerous is because people just want to run around shooting each other instead of working together. I do agree that RPs shouldn't all be dependent on the CO but understand this; I'm not saying drop the RP and that's it, other alterations need to be made as well. The aim is to make teamwork rewarding, to make it necessary.

[$kelet0r]

The more I think about it, the less I like spawning on rally points ingame. Ultimately I'd prefer the spawning feature removed completely and revert to its actual function - ammo and weapon selection point ... or heavily reworked in a way that it has a finite and very small spawn limit or time to depletion, or better require some method that simulates evacuating the injured/dead by requiring a squadmate or manned vehicle be in the RP radius to respawn...

You know what would be truly awesome - a server that rotated big maps, had no bleed and 32 tickets vs 32 tickets (or even less but 32 tickets makes allowance for you to screw up just once) and enforced realistic tactical teamplay (and in an ideal world could remove the defibs, health bags, ammo bags, rally point spawns, magic maps and all the other experience hurting features). I'd play there, hell I might live there.

What I'm seeing and hurting from is that the combat sim that PR could be is constantly being undermined by players who want to pick and choose what parts of real combat they want to deal with as if they were sides of meat on sale in the supermarket.

[Artnez[US]]

Dummies.

At first I thought about writing a long and descriptive post defending rally points, but then I realized the people who are for removing rally points are not fully thinking things through.

You imagine a few scenarios where it would be "cool" (for you) to not have rally points, but you don't consider how this would affect gameplay.

What you need learn is how to look at the big picture and how a change would affect the WHOLE game, not just your part of the game.

Here is a starting point for your thoughts:

1) Rally points signify landing zones where reinforcements are transported.

2) 6 soldiers in PR signify a platoon or more. Attacks are generally made in waves, something that rally points represent.

3) No one likes to drive back and forth. If you want to drive, sign up for the military or a military contractor and go drive. We're playing a video game here where we want to be involved in the combat. This is not checkers or pac-man, it's a first person shooter with a realistic twist. There's no reason why driving forces to the front cannot be simulated by a rally point that the troops get dropped off at. LONE VEHICLES DO NOT TRANSPORT PEOPLE TO A BATTLE. WHEN FORCES GET TRANSPORTED TO A BATTLE, THERE IS A LOT OF DEFENDERS AROUND THEM, HELOS WATCHING THE SKY, ETC. IN IRAQ, A LONE TRUCK WITH 8 GUYS DOES NOT DRIVE TO THE BATTLE. IT DRIVES AS PART OF A *CONVOY*. THE CONVOY ITSELF HAS MORE PEOPLE THAN A WHOLE SERVER OF PR...

We can't represent that in PR so rally points are used as a viable alternative.

4) Strategic common sense: secure outlining territory before attacking the main prize. Before launching an assault on a control point, securing the outer perimeter by destroying rally points to prevent enemy reinforcement is a REALISTIC tactic.

That should be enough to get you started.

Sorry if I came off rude. I love reading creative and new suggestions but this is just stupid and frankly it's kind of insulting to the devs. They spent so much time trying to think of a realistic way to implement reinforcements and keep the game going, while still factoring in gameplay - and you propose to remove it without fully thinking it through.

[Artnez[US]]

What I'm seeing and hurting from is that the combat sim that PR could be is constantly being undermined by players who want to pick and choose what parts of real combat they want to deal with as if they were sides of meat on sale in the supermarket.

Wrong. Your beef is with the DEVs, not the players.

The DEVs have stated many times that they are making a mod for themselves to play and enjoy the fact that other people play it too. They also stated many times that the suggestions forum is not used to sway their opinions but to give them new ideas they have not thought of before.

[Tef]

I know. Why not just get rid of the commander respawn assets as well because those can be placed closer to an actual flag than a rally point(but you guys didn't think about that, did you?) and the same argument will be used on that because a bunch of pansy players are mad they got killed quickly.

Hey, while we are at it, lets just make this game like counterstrike and have 1 life so that "it creates teamwork and a sense of realism because you value your life!" (sarcasm of course)

Or, the icing on the cake, make it where you have to walk for 30 minutes before you even get to fire your weapon at an enemy. That is realistic after all isn't it? That pretty much is just like the military because you sit around for a while, get told to do something (usually clean something or somethng to keep you occupied) and then you sit around some more, actually do something, than sit around some more and wait til the end of the day. (sarcasm of course, but if you guys want a sim, this is pretty much how the military is)

Seriously, the mod/game has already been pushed far enough and if you are complaining about respawning issues now, than maybe you should think about another game?

Is this mod now being run by 10% of the population playing it who are out of touch or what? I have been here since 0.2 and I have liked and had problems with patches here and there, but there becomes a point where it becomes rediculas and is catering to the few hardcore players on here. And usually, those hardcore players don't even know what they are talking about.

Trust me, I am or was at least, a hardcore player, but I know the difference between realism and gameplay crossing the line. I actually had just as much or more fun during the 0.3 days than currently because the mod was so easy to pick up and play. I have no problem with realism being used in the game, but when it starts catering to the 10%"hardcore" who spend more time posting on this forum than playing, it becomes a problem. I actually played Vanilla BF2 the other day and had fun because it was so easy to pick up and play. I definately like PR more, but my point is that is has far less frustrations than PR and as evident by 0.3, it doesn't need to be uber realistic to be fun. That is why we play this game after all, fun.

If you guys are looking for some super sim, than join the military and than you will figure out what a "real" sim is like. And that is not always fun.

/End Rant.

Don't you mean walk couple hours wait 3 days then engage the enemy.

[Artnez[US]]

-You're disatrous to gameplay.

That's weird.. I've played on a server with him and he was an excellent asset to the team and was working with his team.

If the majority of a squad is wiped out, it's because they suck and the guys who wiped them out should be rewarded for their skill by not being attacked by them again in 50 secs.

You obviously haven't played PR enough because "sucking" has little to do with a wiped out squad. There are various other factors at work than "suck".

As I mentioned before, rally points signify reinforcement drop zones. When a squad attacks a rally point (ie: a dropzone, that is defended) and take it out - then they get their reward. Attacks are not orchestrated by 6 regular army men - EVER.

That's because people play in an arcady fashion, and that's because the game does not punish arcade gaming. If it did I assure you that the strangers you play with would be much more skilled.

How does it not punish arcady gameplay? Man, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

I've been playing BF2 since demo and I've been watching PR since the first post in the Desert Combat forums and been playing PR since first public release. PR completely punishes arcady gameplay.

Go back to Civilization 4 if you are unable to stop make sensationalist statements such as "because the game does not punish arcade gaming". The game most certainly does and what you write proves that you are simply not thinking things through.

[Tef]

Man maybe everbody should just stop bitching if you want total realism go join the real army. The devs do as best as they can and remember they do it for free.

[Eden]

Removing rally's posses a few problems, the first being that its hard enough to keep your squad together as it is, if there are no rally's and you have no commander your entire squad ends up scattered all over the map, this happens enough as it is.

Rally's are not as important if you have a commander (unless you attacking a flag) you can easily spawn at a fire base and you only have a 2 min run to your defense post but without a commander rally's are your only way around the map.

If I wanted to be in a squad where I was on my own and my team mates were all over the map id play vBF2.

[M1126 Stryker]

So dying, losing whatever kit and vehicle you had and waiting 30 seconds (excluding the unnecessary bonus time that only helps the tankers/snipers/pilots in the end) is not enough punishment for a game?

The fact that you keep dying to begin with and are not accomplishing much should be enough punishment.

[Top_Cat_AxJnAt]

*Top Cat just blinks in awe at such a suggestion*

[ReaperMAC]

The more I think about it, the less I like spawning on rally points ingame. Ultimately I'd prefer the spawning feature removed completely and revert to its actual function - ammo and weapon selection point ... or heavily reworked in a way that it has a finite and very small spawn limit or time to depletion, or better require some method that simulates evacuating the injured/dead by requiring a squadmate or manned vehicle be in the RP radius to respawn...

You know what would be truly awesome - a server that rotated big maps, had no bleed and 32 tickets vs 32 tickets (or even less but 32 tickets makes allowance for you to screw up just once) and enforced realistic tactical teamplay (and in an ideal world could remove the defibs, health bags, ammo bags, rally point spawns, magic maps and all the other experience hurting features). I'd play there, hell I might live there.

Join the military. Seriously, they have everything you desire and more. No? Too hard? Don't want to die?

What I'm seeing and hurting from is that the combat sim that PR could be is constantly being undermined by players who want to pick and choose what parts of real combat they want to deal with as if they were sides of meat on sale in the supermarket.

PR will *never* be a completely realistic sim, lets just face it. What the DEVs are trying to do is trying to make it as realistic as possible, while trying to implement gameplay without completely nuking it. Which is why they don't have the Javelin in is because it would completely rape any tank on the map. Sure it's realistic, but does that seem like good gameplay to you? Same with the AC-130 Spectre Gunship, it takes boots from the ground and if placed in the most realistic mode possible, would rape atleast half the map.

Not trying to insult you or anything, just reading your reasoning for the topic makes me go WTF.

[$kelet0r]

Not trying to insult you or anything, just reading your reasoning for the topic makes me go WTF.

Maybe then you know how I feel when I read superfluous posts like yours - merely an observation. I want more, others want less, the world keeps turning ...

[ReaperMAC]

Maybe then you know how I feel when I read superfluous posts like yours - merely an observation.

Meh not really, the other posts' arguments about rally point removal seem to make more sense to me than yours ultimately, but whatever.

[Wolfe]

Skeletor is wanting a near 100% tactical combat game. That could be fun but A LOT of changes would have be made to accommodate that style of play and the closer it reached 100%, the fewer PR players there would be. Right now, PR is about 50/50; 50% tactical and 50% rambo and this balance seems to fit the masses as evidence by PR's current popularity being higher than ever.

So it's a delicate balance.. how much is too much before the mod itself is so specialized towards one type of player that nobody else plays.... or maybe that's how it will be?

[[T]Terranova7]

Join the military. Seriously, they have everything you desire and more. No? Too hard? Don't want to die?

I know this was directed at Skeletor, but you people need to get off this "You want realism, go join the Army" BS. I know there are people here serving in the Armed Forces, and I myself have already enlisted within the USMC (Going 0311, Infantry).

The devs themselves said they don't intend on PR appealing to the masses. If I'm looking for pure, mindless fun I simply load up the 360 and hook up with my buds. What I like about PR is that it's as close to a real war scenario as I can get to. I personally want to see PR become a much more slower paced, well thought out, strategic game.

In this case, I find rally points detracts from the strategy element as most squads will set these things close to an enemy CP, and mindlessly rush it until they can overrun the enemy position. For once, I would like to plan out our assault on a CP. Like what should be our point of entry, or identifying how many hostiles and what defenses are currently on the target position. Maybe even have to coordinate a simultaneous assault with another squad, or request additional armor and/or air support in order to gain the upper advantage.

Also like I said earlier, it's a pain to have to chase a squad across the dang map because they keep setting up a new rally point. Often times, you can spend over a dozen minutes fighting some squad out in the forest, having to constantly find and destroy their rally point.

[Wolfe]

In this case, I find rally points detracts from the strategy element as most squads will set these things close to an enemy CP, and mindlessly rush it until they can overrun the enemy position.

This was exactly the reason why APC, commander truck, and SL spawning were removed. And although there was a huge uproar about removing them, it wasn't a major issue because rally spawning still remained.

If rally spawns were removed, what happens when a squad member dies and/or is un-revivable? Spawn back at a bunker? Or main? Not a huge issue for some maps, but on larger maps it would essentially bring that person's game to a halt. How does that squad member rejoin his squad? Does his squad wait until his return?

Not saying I'm against this idea, but let's be realistic about how to achieve such a thing without breaking the game. It cannot be done without serious consideration to other areas of the game that would be dramatically effected by such a move. Thus far, there hasn't been any solid argument made to that end.