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Whatever the punishment is, it needs to be balanced considering that sometimes you DO need to kill civis. But it also shouldn't punish the whole team, as that won't be effective at stopping the individual offenders, and it will piss off everyone on the team to little effect.

How does that not make sense? It's to prevent the civilians from feeling fearless when fired upon. Civilians essentially want to be shot at because it will only give them a 20 second respawn time (unless that changed recently as of 0.7), and because of loss of intelligence. This causes civilians to act unnaturally: instead of hiding when shot at, they would much rather stick themselves out. If you give a penalty for being killed that is countered by an even greater penalty for the killer, you will get more realistic acting civilians.


EDIT: Please enlighten me as to when you DO need to kill civilians?

LeoBloom. wrote: Please enlighten me as to when you DO need to kill civilians?

Example: You and your squaddies are cache hunting in the city, a lone civi (in an unreachable position with out grapple hooks)"spots" you for a his squad, but since you cant knife him you have to shoot him or risk being farther exposed.


Basicly: civi spots british troops/armour/firebase bomb car/truck comes and kills everyone

Or how about when the civis run around dropping bandages to their buddies? I think that warrants shooting, especially if one of those buddies has an RPG.

Give a class (engineer?) a grapple and go civi hunting. I'd love to see civis jumping off lamp posts in order to not get knifed.

So how about this:

Add in a riot control shotgun to the engineer class or make it its own class with a pistol as a backup gun. The riot shotgun has two modes of less lethal fire. Wooden dowel = slug and and rubber pellets = 00 buckshot. Anyone shot with this weapon will take a minor health hit (it is less lethal after all) AND they will also have a temporary blurred vision to represent pain. You could also give that Brit tear gas either thrown or launched.

So, a squad mate would have the task of dealing with civies. If he sees any threat, he can attack it and cause disruption. Enemy fighter could be killed while disoriented and civies arrested.

I really think that adds another game within the game that is having to contend with civies by addressing your squad loadout and then implementing that in combat.

Regarding the punishment, could the soldier in violation have his name in lights (i.e. large bold text) saying "noobdude killed a civilian. +60 secs to his respawn" That way other force members could tell him what he did wrong in addition to him actually seeing the message and catching on.

From a civies perspective, imagine encountering a squad only to be confronted by a member with a riot control gun that stuns you (cant run and disoriented) only to be arrested. Adds a little pucker factor where now there is none.

BloodBane611 wrote:Take out your binoculars, look at their hands.

I'm all for increased civi punish, with civis for both sides, and the removal of tags to make people actually check their fire.

That work's long range, but it is useless in close quarters which is half of Basrah. When insurgents fire before they even come around the corner, there is simply no time to check and than fire. That split second is the difference between a 30 second respawn time and contining on.

And I don't care how long or how much you observe the area before moving in, civis can pop out of nowhere in a second.

And an increase of the civi punish will do nothing. It has already been shown that a 90 second respawn doesn't turn players off from killing them. The problem is not with the players, it is with the mechanics of the game. Like it or not, this game is still fast paced and it is differcult to simply pull out your binoculars and identify a civi when you are under fire.


-Make players get hurt while shooting a civi and civis will throw themselves at the British team. (they already do that now anyway)

-Up the British respawn time anymore, and civis will be throwing themselves in front of tanks and nades. (they do that anyway, so it won't change a thing)

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote: -Make players get hurt while shooting a civi and civis will throw themselves at the British team. (they already do that now anyway)

-Up the British respawn time anymore, and civis will be throwing themselves in front of tanks and nades. (they do that anyway, so it won't change a thing)

These are the exact reasons for punishing civis as mentioned in my post.

What about this then as a punishment and I dont know if it is even possible:

If you kill a civie, you get teleported back to the main base or HQ (furthest respawn from the battle) where you are essentially immobiized for 30 seconds or something. This could simulate being called or hauled back to HQ for an immediate debrief or something.

Also slightly increase a civies respawn time.

I see a lot of talk about draw distances and not being able to tell a civie from an insurgent.

Answer:
Dont fire.

It is very "realistic" to not pull the trigger if you are unsure of your target.
This is part of being a disciplined soldier or Marine.

Ghost1800 wrote:... That has some problems with it, in a lot of situations that would be like getting a 'Get out of jail free' card instead of having to bite the bullet... or hundred.

Essentially if you ever got into a sticky situation where you are being pinned down by insurgents who are popping out of every corner, people would start looking for people with white shirts to shoot to get out of there.

Yeah. I can see where that would be abused.

Maybe if you shoot a civie and kill them, your character dies also and gets a longer respawn time. It certainly is a complicated problem.

I am quoting myself here since no one ever said yeh or neh.

RCMoonPie wrote:As for punishment for killing civies....what about a forced main weapon malfunction?
I kill a civie...and as a result of "murphy's law of war" and "bad kharma"....my main weapon experiences a jam or malfunction!
It can only be remedied by immediate action i.e. getting the weapon un-jammed. This can be simulated by 1.5 to 2 minutes of my weapon just going "click" when I pull the trigger! Or I can get to a rally and exchange kits.....either way....time is lost and point taken.

Or maybe my weapon cant be replaced at all?

And maybe in public chat, it says...
"PlayerName cant be trusted with a loaded weapon"

...and I am then left with nothing but rocks in my kit to throw
...a blunt stick that looks like a small branch for stabbing(with no damage given)

What about this:

The Brit shoots Civi.
Brit is getting the following message: SOLDIER, CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE!
If Brit continues to fire, he will receive a 300 sec spawn.
Civi lives along happily with his 1337 dressings.

The end.

Why have the civilian class at all? a civilian would not be interacting with individuals involved in combat. If anything they'd be trying to get the hell away from a fire fight or combat situation. And if the "civilian" is HELPING the enemy then he really isnt a civilian, he is just an unarmed combatant.
I am guilty of killing civilians. Mind you I dont do it nilly willy. Say, for example, the Brits are pinned in the main base. Usually when this happens you'll have some bozo on the light post with binos scoping out all movement. On such occasions i will take out a civilian cause it is strategically necessary. But, as i said before, why even have the civilian class?

joselucca wrote:Why have the civilian class at all? a civilian would not be interacting with individuals involved in combat. If anything they'd be trying to get the hell away from a fire fight or combat situation. And if the "civilian" is HELPING the enemy then he really isnt a civilian, he is just an unarmed combatant.
I am guilty of killing civilians. Mind you I dont do it nilly willy. Say, for example, the Brits are pinned in the main base. Usually when this happens you'll have some bozo on the light post with binos scoping out all movement. On such occasions i will take out a civilian cause it is strategically necessary. But, as i said before, why even have the civilian class?

If you are all pinned in the base....why would any yahoo bother to point you out? If it is obvious you are in the main base...why is it strategically necessary to kill the civilian?

Because the civilian, with the binos and the grappling hook can climb up on the light post and look into the base. This way he is telling the rest of his squad who what when and where. Thus it is strategically important to take the "spotter" out...specially on a server like battlearena where they have a dome of death around the airbase which forces the insurgents to wait outside (theycant just climb on the sandbags and such)
And did you even read all of my post or did you just pick and choose?
Answer me this: Why is the civi even necessary?

To force the brits not to shoot at everything in sight. But it doesnt work well.

Afaik, the plan was:
Give the brits (/usmc/army/whoever) better equipment, but the insurgents will get civilians, so the brits (/whoever) cant just blow the city.

Now the insurgents even have unlimited tickets, so yes, the civilian class is relative useless right now indeed.

Is it possible to incorporate civilian bots to just run around randomly from building to building or across the street? (Mind you i dont know much about the BF engine/coding and all that) Because, as i stated before, if a civi can actively assist combat troops then that makes him fair game IMO.