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I would say that the cost of that is huge to through into what tend to be built up maps and Laser Desginated targets tend to be stationary not moving - for moving targets then heat seaking etc is used. So is it relevant? Not really. So the next bit may be irrelevant.

Furthermore the cost per unit for the laser designator is quite high to give to every scout when one looks at the sort of kill :d eath ratio in PRMM. And plus the type of units that have PRMMs are low. ATM there is no artillery - (And with no commanders being used in tourneys) i'd reckon that artillery is not going to be likely to come in at all - so I would say that something like a howitzer is more likely - but consider the trajectory's involved etc and it gets messy for a game.

Also, lets think about the other application - painting targets for planes - well fair enough I can see someone painting a flag to get some nice killing. But the distance an LG weapon is released from and the speed of planes in real life and also their altitude is v diff from that in PRMM no?!

the_ultimate_maverick wrote:I would say that the cost of that is huge to through into what tend to be built up maps and Laser Desginated targets tend to be stationary not moving - for moving targets then heat seaking etc is used. So is it relevant? Not really. So the next bit may be irrelevant.

Furthermore the cost per unit for the laser designator is quite high to give to every scout when one looks at the sort of kill :d eath ratio in PRMM. And plus the type of units that have PRMMs are low. ATM there is no artillery - (And with no commanders being used in tourneys) i'd reckon that artillery is not going to be likely to come in at all - so I would say that something like a howitzer is more likely - but consider the trajectory's involved etc and it gets messy for a game.

Also, lets think about the other application - painting targets for planes - well fair enough I can see someone painting a flag to get some nice killing. But the distance an LG weapon is released from and the speed of planes in real life and also their altitude is v diff from that in PRMM no?!

Ok, just take out the Laser deignator for gameplay, not realistic perpouses.

Good to see discussion here again

But the distance an LG weapon is released from and the speed of planes in real life and also their altitude is v diff from that in PRMM no?!

Yes, I realize this, the main reason I wanted to add this is because there is NO WAY that PR will just remove planes, FAR too many people would be upset, so I tried to make a system to attempt to have them used how the would be IRL.

As far as I know, IRL jets don't fly at 10m firing their main cannon at infantry ...

To me: there is way too much kit in you proposed list!

Exactly which kits?

The AT and AA kits might be a little on the heavy side (a LOT ... ) but that all depends on what weapon system is used. Depending on the weapon system a Pistol could/should be substitued for a PDW aswell.

Snipers should get more mags

If they get too many mags, there will be nothing else ... but this is definately a balance issue that would have to be worked out "in-game" to find the right balance.

There really is no need for all this. The classes you listed are just the same ones minus a nade or ammo bag. We have all the basic weapons and classes we need and where would all those people fit in a squad?

The main reason I made up these new classes was to make people choose different kits instead of ... SUPPORT, try to make a more realistic squad dynamic instead of medics and supports. Secondly, the vanilla class system is quite unrealistic.

Now I've always thought it was very gamey to blow up a bride and then fix it with a wrench. However, if there's no wrench then how do bridges get "repaired" after they've been destroyed? Wil they be permenantly destroyed in the context of the game map? There by making them strategic assets to be defended?

Do we make bridges harder to destroy? Say like 8 C4 packs? Or do we have a bridge-layer vehicle added at some point to counter act the blown bridge?

Bridges definately should be a strategic asset, so I would like them to be unrepairable. The ONLY thing in the world that can repair a bridge destroyed by C4 in under an hour (being VERY generous with that time frame ...) is one of those mobile bridge vehicles ... and thats not even really repairing it!

I think to destroy bridges it should take well placed C4 packs, for example, putting 10 C4 packs on the surface on the bridge will get the job done, but putting ONE underneath it will also get the job done. Don't know if thats possible in the BF2 engine.

smoke sucks in BF2 n isnt that improved in PRMM it is not effective enough and goes as soon as it is laid down.

Agreed.

I would suggest Assault get flashbangs instead - much more widely used.

I would think that smoke grenades would be cheaper to make and use so I would think they would be more widely used ... maybe someone with military experience/knowledge could shed some light?

Either way, I don't think PRMM should just abandon smoke grenades ... they are a VERY useful tool if made properly (look at America's Army smoke, it actually works, AND people use it!)

Note that uh.... I have an idea that can actually compliment this quite significantly. I won't share it because I am not sure if it can be done yet. And if it can be done, and we decide to do it.... we'll try keep *something* as a surprise!

Now I'm all anxious to see whats going to happen ...

I'd also really like to see squads of 8, but it's looking like this is hard coded.

That's too bad, hopefully you guys can find a way around it, squads of 8 would be amazing!

beta wrote:I would think that smoke grenades would be cheaper to make and use so I would think they would be more widely used ... maybe someone with military experience/knowledge could shed some light?

Ye i'm a Mil. Advisor and have 13 years combat experience. Smoke is great in urban areas - its lovely stuff - in open warfare I love it too it covers you. In BF2 RMM its a bit shitty but you are right does have advantages - I would say it would be better for less assault/breach minded troops. So, give smoke to support (or whatever version of this you have) and then AT,

Flashbangs give advantages that smoke doesnt, it can be used in attack and act against only the defending force (look the other way/other techniques one wouldnt need to consider for a game). Also, it has the potential for great effects - and the assault troops having them is perfect for they are most likely to use them....when assaulting. In a room clearance smoke is no good as you can't see either and the defending force just shoots the **** out of the different breach points. A flashbang disorientates and allows you to advance.

beta wrote:Yes, I realize this, the main reason I wanted to add this is because there is NO WAY that PR will just remove planes, FAR too many people would be upset, so I tried to make a system to attempt to have them used how the would be IRL.

As far as I know, IRL jets don't fly at 10m firing their main cannon at infantry ...

And they can fly that low and strafe but the whole point is that jets want to be safe!! And so they don't get close to SAMs etc - and if you look, aircraft are being used less and less as they are death traps...

I think I'll update the classes then, give flashbangs to the classes I think might be used for breaching ... decided to give them to the SPECIALIST classes. Although the Rifleman might be more likely to do the breach, I don't want to make a "super" class, so I decided the SPECIALIST's should get 'em, and 'cause .... well ... they're special

and if you look, aircraft are being used less and less as they are death traps...

Thats good ... unfortunately I have played PRMM since the BF2 1.2 patch came out, as I didn't have time over the last week ... it'd be nice to see air vehciles actually afraid of the SAM sites and AA vehicles ...

Edit: Added some stuff ...

flashbangs in a mod = EULA violation, please leave them out (unless of course we decide to make them ourselves or get EA permission to use them).

While they are ... nifty .. I dunno if they are really worth the effort.

egg

angus wrote:Is there something that I am missing about "only changing the primary weapon with unlock"

Check the stock US assault tweak. It uses add and replace lines for items 3 and 4 (rifle and grenade).

Code: Select all

ObjectTemplate.create ItemContainer UnlockUSAssault
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate usrif_G3A3
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrif_m203
Objecttemplate.addTemplate ushgr_m67
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrgl_m203
ObjectTemplate.unlockLevel 1

ObjectTemplate.create ItemContainer UnlockUSAssault2
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate sasrif_fn2000
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrif_m203
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrif_G3A3
Objecttemplate.addTemplate sasgr_fn2000
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem usrgl_m203
ObjectTemplate.replaceItem ushgr_m67
ObjectTemplate.addTemplate nshgr_flashbang
Objecttemplate.replaceItem ushgr_smoke
ObjectTemplate.unlockLevel 2

Cool stuff will look into this.... honestly am learning new stuff all the time hehe.

egg

EULA violation - as you made ref too - is only if we copy their coding. Delta Force had them in.....

And they aren't hard to code from what I have had experience of in simulators - you need to change a damage radius to a light radius etc but its good.

And flashbangs are vital because it means you can 'FRAG, BANG, SECURE' and with PRMM becoming more realistic all the time, we should be more tactical and caring about our lives - so we should be sure we can get in and be safe - otherwise its hard to take some positions without NADE spamming - which should be despised!! Plus flashbangs can look ace!

There would need to be more people if the squads are upped to 8 people. At least 80 as stated before or maybe even 64-70, but we might have less smaller squads that actually do something, and more that just camp with their squad leader as snipers on a roof somewhere and all spawn when he gets on a flag.

I would rerly like the devs to comment on weather they will implement beta's ideas.

Personaly, I think the classes are fairly well dialled as is. The only classes I dislike are the sniper and SF.

Sniper: Pointless. Snipers are only ever deployed to conduct operations of high priority, that require an acurate shooter. Taking a market in SAK isnt a worthwhile deployement for 5 snipers. Instead, bring a Marksman class in, as has been talked about numerous times.

Special Ops: General consensus is it need's to either be a) Completely reworked or b) Replaced by something new.
A recon class, perhaps, with a silenced M4 and some sort of specialist equipment, eg a LD to point targets of intrest, to which the acting commander has a choice of dropping some ordinance on or totaly ignoring.

The idea is to create classes which can't work without including other classes. The Recon can't use an artillery strike unless its considered a worthwhile target by the commander, and the Marksman class is a frontline unit, which will need to be in a squad to work well. I think each class is needs to rely on atleast one other class, so it can reach its full potential.

JellyBelly wrote:Personaly, I think the classes are fairly well dialled as is. The only classes I dislike are the sniper and SF.

Sniper: Pointless. Snipers are only ever deployed to conduct operations of high priority, that require an acurate shooter. Taking a market in SAK isnt a worthwhile deployement for 5 snipers. Instead, bring a Marksman class in, as has been talked about numerous times.

Special Ops: General consensus is it need's to either be a) Completely reworked or b) Replaced by something new.
A recon class, perhaps, with a silenced M4 and some sort of specialist equipment, eg a LD to point targets of intrest, to which the acting commander has a choice of dropping some ordinance on or totaly ignoring.

The Recon class you mentioned is just a SF guy with a different name.
Snipers are actualy inteligence gatherer's and they are also used to cover soldiers on the ground and have been used to hunt enemy snipers in Korea and Vietnam.

A few modifications i have noticed might be better; Sharpshooter in the Rifleman class could be different, sharpshooters are snipers, mabey Grenadier takes his place and in turn his free slot in specialist class could be a medium anti-tank class (MAW) were as the light AT gets a LAW and heavy AT gets a deployable MILAN?
Eather way sharpshooter in the rifleman class sounds a bit snipey.

Pence wrote:The Recon class you mentioned is just a SF guy with a different name.

This is the same a the SF class?
Recon

Ghille Suit/BDU's (Depending on terrain)

Knife
M4 w/ Suppresor, ACOG X4: 3 Mags
Laser Designator
Binoculars
Claymore x2

Pence wrote:Sharpshooter

Sharpshooter is a term coined by law enforcement. A Marksman class would be a 'grunt' armed with a modified standard rifle, such as an m14, or the SPR.

Knife
M4 w/ Suppresor, ACOG X4: 3 Mags
Laser Designator
Binoculars
Claymore x2

Oh kwl, but im fearing gameplay. (64 Scouts hideing around the map)

Everyone say's things like this, but you don't see 64 SAW gunners in the current PRM servers, do you.... Ok, maybe that wasnt a great comparison, but you catch my drift.
Not everyone likes the idea of sneaking around and spotting out the enemy.

JellyBelly wrote:Everyone say's things like this, but you don't see 64 SAW gunners in the current PRM servers, do you.... Ok, maybe that wasnt a great comparison, but you catch my drift.
Not everyone likes the idea of sneaking around and spotting out the enemy.

I guess but i was just worrying, I think a scout with a carbine, 2 hand grenades and laser designator from beta's initial post will work well anyway and because its part of the recon class they will ware the cammoflarge that the snipers ware.

the scout calss is a good idead. the commander should be fixed tto where he can drop a certain number of arty strikes or maybe instead of arty, an anti vehicle or anti structural ordinance (think cruise missle ). the commander could only use the ordinance if it was pointed out by a laser designator so he couldnt jsut send cruise missles flying into the enemy's main base. this could create proper balance. just an idea though

six7 wrote:the scout calss is a good idead. the commander should be fixed tto where he can drop a certain number of arty strikes or maybe instead of arty, an anti vehicle or anti structural ordinance (think cruise missle ). the commander could only use the ordinance if it was pointed out by a laser designator so he couldnt jsut send cruise missles flying into the enemy's main base. this could create proper balance. just an idea though

That's kind of what I envisoned.

Something that can add all the fun of BIG explosives, while trying to maintain balance.

Sniper: Pointless. Snipers are only ever deployed to conduct operations of high priority, that require an acurate shooter. Taking a market in SAK isnt a worthwhile deployement for 5 snipers. Instead, bring a Marksman class in, as has been talked about numerous times.

It's true that they probably wouldn't be used on PRMM sized maps and engagement forces, but, like jets, I think a lot of people would complain if they dissappeared.

I would rerly like the devs to comment on weather they will implement beta's ideas.

So would I.

For the scout/recon class, maybe they should be given a parachute as well. That way they could be paradropped into enemy lines from a littlebird or transport chopper.

The only problem with this though is that it throws off the whole pilot class. If it can be made so only specific classes can get into certain vehicles, then this should be used. If this is the case, then perhaps they would be able to fly the littlebirds and only the littlebirds.

As for the marksman class, I would like to see this, the sniper is a pretty unrealistic class for any of the current battles we have in prmm. Everytime I think of this class I imagine the two special forces(forgot if they were Delta or Ranger) operatives who did their best to hold of the somolian's in Mugdisho from capturing or possibly killing a blackhawk pilot. This was well portrayed in the movie "Blackhawk Down."

lonelyjew wrote: Everytime I think of this class I imagine the two special forces(forgot if they were Delta or Ranger) operatives who did their best to hold of the somolian's in Mugdisho from capturing or possibly killing a blackhawk pilot. This was well portrayed in the movie "Blackhawk Down."

Bit confused with this part here . Those were Delta snipers who went in to protect the downed bird (no other forces could be brought there in time). At that range though they were more like riflemen/marksmen than snipers. Also I would hope it was well portrayed as it actually happened (minus a little Hollywood magic I'm sure (the only account of these two operators actions was that of the BH pilot, who didn't see everything they did).