SPC OPS

Dempsey · Post by **Dempsey** » 2008-05-01 13:12

You dont have to have a special forces kit to be part of a special forces team... Its not the equipment, but the skills which count.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2008-05-01 13:33

Why ain't this thread locked?

Maxfragg · Post by **Maxfragg** » 2008-05-01 13:49

mods are sleeping, no better reason => plz lock

Post by **bosco_** » 2008-05-01 13:51

Not bumping the thread for no reason would work, too.

jack2665 · Post by **jack2665** » 2008-05-01 14:02

1000 views woot best thead ever

i downd two jets befor thay took off 1 with C4 and 1 with 4 slams and lived
its cool waching theam tack off and blow up and then thay go WTF?

Reddish Red · Post by **Reddish Red** » 2008-05-01 14:51

I din't know someone could derail there own topic, but you managed it jack.

Dempsey · Post by **Dempsey** » 2008-05-01 15:00

Jack seems to be the resident 1337 HaXor Skillz.

jack2665 · Post by **jack2665** » 2008-05-01 15:04

? wtf dose that mean?

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-05-01 15:12

Dempsey wrote:You dont have to have a special forces kit to be part of a special forces team... Its not the equipment, but the skills which count.

Maybe engineer could get the M4 carbine like crewman so they can pretend easier, fits in with the shotgun I think

Dempsey · Post by **Dempsey** » 2008-05-01 15:16

Special forces don't always use UBER l337 guns, with teh scopes of Pwn, and boom headshot Lazooors.

Shotguns for example, are regulary used in CQB as door breachers. Although in PR im still trying to get to grips with them.

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-05-01 16:53

could just de-leet them and give them an acog...

Post by **Spec** » 2008-05-01 19:31

them? What would the MEC Spec Ops get? I doubt a full sized G3 with scope would fit...

I think they are much better then they were in 0.6 - yes, they can still be used to be leet, but with them being limited to two i can live with it. I dont really like the carbines, but well, they should stay away from combat anyway and do their recon job.

Personaly i still think they should get a suppressed smg instead of pistol AND carbine. One weapon is enough for someone who is supposed to stay away from combat. And i think this compromise would make sense. Though i guess most of you will disagree.

Well, however, a full sized rifle with scope would make them too riflemanish.

Oink-Blabber · Post by **Oink-Blabber** » 2008-05-01 23:20

if theirs multiple helicopters you could always use LRP insertion tactics to get behind enemy lines early in the game (before bunkers and stuff are built up)

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-05-02 00:43

Well, however, a full sized rifle with scope would make them too riflemanish.

You are in a 2 km area. You are going to see combat. I've used this thing all of 0.7 and even if you approach a seemingly abandoned firebase, half the time there are people spawning there, and engaging without a scope, even at ranges of under 70m is still hit and miss.

Even if you are doing your "job" you encounter hostiles regularly. In fact, if you don't encounter enemies you aren't attacking anything thats worth anything. Do you really need to destroy that firebase at the PLA main when theres a command post, a bunker, and 3 Iglas sitting outside fishing? No probably not. So assuming to manage to get in view of it, you are probably going encounter at least one guy there. Unless the guy is facing the other way, you will need to shoot him at least three consecutive times in the center of mass to kill him. This can take 2-5 seconds if they're stationary and depending on distance meaning that once that first shot goes off, he had better be AFK, because usually hes prone and firing before I get my second shot into space.

But if you miss once, you are 3/4 times dead as they can get out 3 shots not into your center of mass, but the center of mass of the carbon atom of the dust particle on the louse of the hair of your unshaven uni-brow. And this is after not only seeing them first, but flanking them, getting in range, and opening fire. And even if you kill him and there are not medics present, he will undoubtedly be informing his entire team that he's dead, as if your "L337" M4A1 hasn't reported that there is a 12 year old trying to be UB3R and its your sworn duty to kill, teabag, and remove his useless kit only to get killed in 30 seconds anyways.

You are attacking essentially a 10m x 10m piece of netting that has generally pissed off Chinamen, Amerimen, MECmen, and or tools who already don't like you, and the fact that you think you are so L337 that you can blow them up while they're waiting for a Kit is probably enough to merit a "lets kill this nub" call over VOIP. You need to have a serious weapon. The already numerical disadvantage is enough to give even the leetest of us pause. So unless you are off in the boonies doing what essentially results in 2 minutes of construction work for the next command truck/tacti-squad, you WILL encounter hostiles. Many. And you are going to need a weapon, not a pistol, not a slam, an honest to god weapon. That is unless you are attacking something of absolutely no value.

In conclusion:

-You're in a combat zone. Not in a foreign country doing something against international law. No need to be all that sneaky here.

-You're targets are almost always defended. And you generally cannot engage until under 100m, which seriously limits your mobility.

-There are two of you. Yay. You are already outnumbered, probably outgunned, and therefore already at a disadvantage. I don't see how getting a scope affects anyone but the people its going to kill. The friendly team is by and large unaffected as 2 players may prevent dozens from reinforcing, so I don't mind someone using a lone wolf kit as a lone wolf kit. And if they're just that 7th grader fresh out of CS then so what? Theres only two kits at any one time.

-In real life (god forbid) on an individual level, SF operators are not outgunned, but they are outnumbered. And when engaged with forces of equal number should have at the bare minimum a 50% survival rate. Equal numbers being the key word. Ammo is a problem, which is why prolonged firefights are undesirable.

Idea:

- 2 or 3 Slams and 1 C4 is plenty enough. 4 is too many, and while killing tanks is pretty fun, its a lot of extra stuff you don't need to achieve your purpose.

- On a usefulness scale, after getting hit once with a pistol, most people are traveling away at slightly lower than the speed of sound, and the low velocity of the M9 or what have you doesn't help. While being uber with this along with the grapple is great, it just isn't that useful for the tasks that are usually required.

- Give it an ACOG with 4x zoom, and remove 50% of its ammo. It represents quite well the extra mobility of most SF units, but prevents it from being used as a front line kit. If someone decides thats the way to go, then its their loss. But I don't like having to change how I play because of the lowest common denominator.

While traveling with a rifleman is a good option, the idea is to have as few people as possible. Once you get down that road you may as well get a medic, a LAT, a SAW and another rifleman, and an officer kit while your at it, and then before you know it you are in a frontal assault, and now half the enemy team is zeroing in on you... and the bunker is still there. Smaller is just better. Have as few L337 people out there as possible.

Post by **Spec** » 2008-05-02 08:55

Well, Officer and one "Spec Ops" would do the job imo. And i dont think the kit is useful at the smaller maps anyway.

But maybe you're right, i didnt play this class for quite some time. Maybe i should try it a bit, especialy avoiding combat. I really gotta get into PR again... *sigh* Sry for the OT

at1as · Post by **at1as** » 2008-05-02 22:36

I dont know, may be some1 has already suggested it, but i would really like to see a parachute in specops kit. Could be really usefull to be dropped behind enemy lines from a chopper for some demolition missions.

Post by **LeadMagnet** » 2008-05-02 22:59

CAS you once gave advice that those who can't fly shouldn't be able to. The same mentality applies to the spec ops kit. If you don't have the tactical savy to use it then don't start posting ideas on how to improve it.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-05-03 00:35

I dont think parachute is needed for spec ops, the drop distance they can survive is already quite generous especially when they get more then one patch to heal with

A heli can more easily fly nape of the earth & drop you somewhere remote and out of line of sight. A big HAHO drop is more conspicuous thanks to lack of cloud cover on most maps. Try climbing 800m in a huey, it takes forever and thats the min alt to avoid fixed AA

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2008-05-03 01:45

LeadMagnet wrote:CAS you once gave advice that those who can't fly shouldn't be able to. The same mentality applies to the spec ops kit. If you don't have the tactical savy to use it then don't start posting ideas on how to improve it.

That is not true Lead, and you know it. I design the aircraft based on how I'm told by those in charge, by my research, and the recommendations of people who fly on a regular basis. I don't drive tanks, I don't drive apcs, and I don't really use the sniper kits, so as far as those weapons are concerned I am content to hold my peace. I use the SF kit frequently, usually to great effect.

To prevent it from being used as a front line kit rather than reduce its ability to both fight in intense fire fight situations AND its ability to attack and destroy assents, a compromise is needed. This simply is to reduce the amount of ammo it carries by at least 50%. Yes maybe on occasion it will be used as a rifleman kit except more L337. But giving it an M4A1 and 8 clips seems to encourage this even more. I'm willing to bet that there will be even fewer Ub3r kiddies running around when they realize that (at least when the US army arrives) that it is simply using a standard service rifle. But it will be able to do it job better.

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2008-05-03 02:05

CAS, the kit doesnt need more firepower... The carabine does its job in CQC (up to 70m) and you shouldnt be engaging people further than that anyways. I have used this kit many times in 0.75 and i have rarely used the carabine. If your gonna blow up a firebase, just sneak in there. Its usually much easier to walk in there quetly and just hide when people spawn instead of running in there with guns blazing. If you have 2-3 guys near a firebase, move in from a blindspot, place SLAMS and gtfo, or just wait till they move away from it if the first one isnt possible. Coz if you start shooting at them, you will just draw more attention to yourself, and thats not exactly something you need.

EDIT: Btw, does the specops kit have parachutes now? I never tried it. (jumping out of a chopter to check if you have a parachute isnt exactly a good idea)