Project Reality Forums

I would be less against a completely unarmed Huey if a Cobra spawned at round start to escort them.

u mean on muttrah? what u must add more to your thread to understand it
beside for that it would be to ownage against the enemy trucks etc.

Put door guns on like the ones in vietnam the M60



Trigger

spawncaptain wrote:Does that mean that the transport huey in PR is totally unrealistic?
As there a a couple of military advisers here, the only reason would be a Knighthawk model that's missing. Any volunteers?

The Huey's in PR are realistic, the Marines can use them as transports. The problem is that they can only hold appx. 6 troops inside them. Right now, I work on MV-22s and they can haul 24 troops inside, so the Huey isn't needed to transport troops. If they do, it's usually VIPs such as generals and dignitaries. If PR really wanted to get things right with the Marines on PR, they should just arm the Hueys as gunships by just having rocket packs and door guns, and put transport helos in there, such as Phrogs (CH-46E) which can hold 12 troops, shitters (CH-53E) which can transport 30 troops, or the MV-22 which transports 24. Granted, this would take time to design the aircraft, but it's the way to really get things completely right with the Marines.

Drunkenup wrote:Generally Marine Huey's are only armed in the role of Attack. If you put in Guns and ammunition, the cabin is usually gutted out for extra fuel and ammunition.

Actually, our Huey's in the Marines are always armed. The only time they are unarmed is when there is no expected danger, such as when they are at their respective home base, or when embarked on a ship and away from any hot spots. And even when they are armed, they carry a lot of fuel and ammunition, but there is still a lot of cabin room. The only problem is that the aircraft is old, so the engines and airframes cannot handle the stress of having a full load of fuel, weapons and ammuntion, and troops inside. And they don't carry as much ammunition as you may think. Such as in Iraq, there are so many FARPs they can land at they usually travel light.

darkside12 wrote:put transport helos in there, such as Phrogs (CH-46E) which can hold 12 troops, shitters (CH-53E) which can transport 30 troops, or the MV-22 which transports 24. Granted, this would take time to design the aircraft

There is a MV-22 available and "in-game" (still needs coding work) but DEVs have stated that there are currently no appropriate maps for it. As in 4x4km Marine maps with longer distances to travel and lots of places for the larger MV-22 to land.

I don't think making the CH-46E for PR would be worthwhile as IIRC it's being replaced by the MV-22 IRL. The CH-53E's role in PR could be filled by the MV-22 as well.

So unless the DEVs accept MV-22's on 2x2km maps (eg. Muttrah) despite their speed and size, we'll probably continue to see the Hueys in the unrealistic transport role.

I personally think the MV-22 should be used on current maps anyway, pilots would merely be restricted to more open landing zones. Jabal is almost entirely open desert, Muttrah has enough spots and even on Barracuda it's workable.

It's a parallel issue to the Army Littlebirds being used in PR by conventional forces for light transport, when IRL they're special forces assets.

darkside12 wrote:The only problem is that the aircraft is old, so the engines and airframes cannot handle the stress of having a full load of fuel, weapons and ammuntion, and troops inside.

I expect the new UH-1Y Venom will resolve that to an extent.

The MV22 is too big to fit properly on Muttrah. (Rhino showed once in his blogs IIRC) Same thing with Barracuda, probably, although it would be useful on the landing strip. (if it could drop two crates, as a cargo aircraft)

@ Darkside, the max amount of players that can be in a vehicle in BF2 is 8. That includes a pilot/ driver.

MonkeySoldier wrote:The MV22 is too big to fit properly on Muttrah. (Rhino showed once in his blogs IIRC) Same thing with Barracuda, probably

I can think of enough of spots to land the MV-22 on both maps, in addition to being able to hover over the water.

IIRC Rhino showed a screen shot of the MV-22 barely fitting on top of an apartment building, which isn't necessary anyway.

Snazz wrote:I can think of enough of spots to land the MV-22 on both maps, in addition to being able to hover over the water.

IIRC Rhino showed a screen shot of the MV-22 barely fitting on top of an apartment building, which isn't necessary anyway.

Landing on apartments sure, but enjoy being instantly hammered by whatever is around to shoot such a gargantuan target.

I don't see anywhere else it could really land on Muttrah. Boulevard? Telephone poles in the way. Docks? Perhaps if it was in that HUGE open area.

dtacs wrote:enjoy being instantly hammered by whatever is around to shoot such a gargantuan target.

I think you're overestimating it's size, but being a big target isn't a satisfactory reason for not having it in PR IMO.

dtacs wrote:I don't see anywhere else it could really land on Muttrah. Boulevard? Telephone poles in the way. Docks? Perhaps if it was in that HUGE open area.

Did you ever play the Kashan training map before it was officially included? It had the MV-22 and it wasn't much larger than the Skycow. Consider that the rotors don't have collision meshes as well.

Snazz wrote:I think you're overestimating it's size, but being a big target isn't a satisfactory reason for not having it in PR IMO.

You're right, but if its that big I believe we may as well have the CH-46/47 for the Marines instead. Width being the area of interest here.

Osprey dimensions
Length
57' 4" - Spread
63' 0" - Folded
Width
84' 7" - Spread
18' 5" - Folded

Chinook dimensions

Length:

Rotors unfolded: 84 feet, 4 inches (25.69 meters)
Rotors folded: 45 feet, 7.5 inches (13.89 meters)
Width:

Rotors unfolded: 51 feet (15.54 meters)
Rotors folded: 14 feet, 9 inches (4.49 meters)

Did you ever play the Kashan training map before it was officially included? It had the MV-22 and it wasn't much larger than the Skycow. Consider that the rotors don't have collision meshes as well.

No, I didn't. Not sure if the model was incorrect or a bit small or something but remember everything seems smaller in the BF2 engine.
And TBH if they don't have collision meshes I don't think it should be in, really landing in a Muttrah street in that thing just because it doesn't have them is a bit of a realism killer.

If we raise the distance between ground and carrier, lets say 5-10 km, it would make sense to use the Osprey. But not on Muttrah... a big fat tiltrotor in a city? Not realistic at all.

dtacs wrote:if its that big I believe we may as well have the CH-46/47 for the Marines instead. Width being the area of interest here.

The Marines currently use the CH-46 but it's meant to be replaced by the MV-22, so creating an older asset when we've already got it's replacement seems a waste of time.

dtacs wrote:And TBH if they don't have collision meshes I don't think it should be in, really landing in a Muttrah street in that thing just because it doesn't have them is a bit of a realism killer.

Same case for all the current PR choppers.

EnermaX wrote:If we raise the distance between ground and carrier, lets say 5-10 km, it would make sense to use the Osprey.

Distances in PR are already very unrealistic due to map sizes, so it's real life range shouldn't matter.

EnermaX wrote:But not on Muttrah... a big fat tiltrotor in a city? Not realistic at all.

I don't know if Ospreys would be ruled out for assaults on cities, but Marines have advised that their Hueys are rarely used to transport troops.

Maybe it would be ultimately realistic to just have AAVs where Ospreys are inappropriate.

Snazz wrote:The Marines currently use the CH-46 but it's meant to be replaced by the MV-22, so creating an older asset when we've already got it's replacement seems a waste of time.

The AAV is being replaced by the EFV, so why isn't it being put into PR? The factions should have what they have, not what they are going to get in awhile.

Same case for all the current PR choppers.

Yes but landing a Huey or Sea Hawk or whatever in Muttrah is a bit more realistic than a huge tilt-rotor wouldn't you agree?

Plus it takes a bit of length to change from flying in jet mode to helicopter mode iirc? (using transformers terminology here lol) I'm sure if it was flying at regular speed it would take the length of Muttrah to change modes to be able to land.

Uhh.. correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't USMC chaps ditched the EFV? Like too many flaws, and stuff?

IRL they usually have .50s or 240s but some have the vulcan however I have never seen one with a vulcan minigun but they are around, the ones I have seen mainly are equiped with a .50.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/998/ ... d7ezn1.jpg

http://www.guncopter.com/images/gallery ... inigun.jpg

http://www.guncopter.com/images/gallery/uh-1n.jpg

ps and no the USMC did not ditch the EFV instead they are making drastic changes to it and are post-poning mass production until 2015 I think.... I am not sure about the date but they are still going to field it.

i know, there is the old V-22 from Rising Conflicts, but if the devs are interested in the V-22 they should take a look at the one, clive will from AIX is working on atm V-22 in BFSP-Forum

Snazz wrote:I don't think making the CH-46E for PR would be worthwhile as IIRC it's being replaced by the MV-22 IRL. The CH-53E's role in PR could be filled by the MV-22 as well.

I know that the MV-22 is replacing the CH-46E because I work in the MV-22. The MV-22 is an awesome aircraft, but it is much larger than the Phrog, hence it has to have large areas to land in, just as the CH-53E. I just think the Phrog is suited much better for this game since they won't go into an airplane mode and fly at 300 knots when you need to go 3 Km, and the Phrog would be able to land in city areas that are secured and drop troops and supplies. Plus, unless someone really knows how the MV-22 is flown in real life, there would be a lot more crashes due to the complexe flying style of the aircraft.

DrugKoala wrote:Uhh.. correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't USMC chaps ditched the EFV? Like too many flaws, and stuff?

Yes, we cancelled the EFV progam due to it's high over budget. It wasn't a program that was critical to replace something else (i.e. the MV-22 replacing the CH-46E). And the EFV program was years behind it's schedule for something that wasn't nearly as complex like the MV-22, which was in prototype stage for nearly 15 years. Lately there have been many overhauls and armor upgrades to extend the life of the AAVs.

Yes it would be great to have to have big helicopters in PR...

No it's not possible to realistically portray big helicopters in PR.