Project Reality Forums

'[R-CON wrote:Rhino']thou you wont see the "M1986" at the top of the screen.... So they will never know what hit them

And shovles would be sort of pointless, you cant did wholes in BF2 unless you are running the editor

Darn, you're right on the first part. I had no plans of digging holes though, just beating people senseless.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Also, you don't know if the enemy has a vest on with ceramic plates which would stop the knife coming and it would be harder for the soldier/marine to hit the neck/head, a smaller target. .

Armor plates only protect the upper chest region, they arent on the ribs, or even lower abdomen, again, an ill informed arguement. only some newer armored vests place protectors in both front and rear, NONE of them are STAB VESTS {which would still not stop the force of a bayonet on a rifle}, i will concede that the trauma plate will stop the bayonet, but the trauma plate doesnt cover everything....

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:It is not always as effective as a knief alone because if you run into someone close up, you don't have much stabbing room and you cant really get at his throat effectively.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 50/ch7.htm

these guys would tend to rip apart that statement too....please pay close attention to the numbnuts with the knife alone ,getting 'PWNT' by the bayonet wielding soldier, he has reach over him, and force, as well as a better followup{the buttstroke}.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:. Another ex. Marines in Iraqi were clearing out a dark building when the point man ran into an insurgent. His fellow Marines were a littles away from him. He immediately took out his Kabar while getting up and used a manveur on him(which I forget), then proceeded to cut his throat.

You think even if he had his bayonet on, he would of been able to use it effectively? You also have to think about the close quarters that the soldiers and marines are fighting in the Middle East which would also make having a bayonet on hard to manuveur. This is not Vietnam. They have less room, and a bayonet would be more cumbersome.

um in short, having had the training, YES, he would have been able to kill the guy just as fast with his bayonet affixed to his rifle.

Define for me CLOSE QUARTERS BATTLE please?

How close, in a closet, a hallway? a living room? A train? Anything UNDER 20 Meters is the broad definition to that, sometimes closer, sometimes at that range, your PISTOL is a CQB weapon, as well as most submachine guns.

PS, just becuase you probably werent born during the Viet nam conflict, doesnt make it ancient history bubba, its still modern times, especially since someone else pointed out that the very weapons they were using then, are still used NOW.

Its not like its even that much of a different conflict to the one currently going on in the Gulf, VietCong=Insurgents, same type of guerilla war, different locations, very striking similarities, similar tactics used on both sides, although not exactly the same.

Krieg ist Krieg {war is war}, doesnt matter what era it is and a lot of doctrine today is firmly entrenched in the past, even though the tech is different now.

i think the bayonet should only be available ot use when your out of ammo, because, realisticly there is no way your going to want to use your bayonet until that happens. you WILL use your knife for a silent sneak up kill, but i honestly dont see a situation where you will use your bayonet. i mean how often do you use your knife as of now?

i think screw the technical terms and just give us a stabbing tool !!! i wud love to Banziiiiiiii headlong into the enemy after running out of bullets !!

Nevermore wrote:Armor plates only protect the upper chest region, they arent on the ribs, or even lower abdomen, again, an ill informed arguement. only some newer armored vests place protectors in both front and rear, NONE of them are STAB VESTS {which would still not stop the force of a bayonet on a rifle}, i will concede that the trauma plate will stop the bayonet, but the trauma plate doesnt cover everything....




http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 50/ch7.htm

these guys would tend to rip apart that statement too....please pay close attention to the numbnuts with the knife alone ,getting 'PWNT' by the bayonet wielding soldier, he has reach over him, and force, as well as a better followup{the buttstroke}.



um in short, having had the training, YES, he would have been able to kill the guy just as fast with his bayonet affixed to his rifle.

Define for me CLOSE QUARTERS BATTLE please?

How close, in a closet, a hallway? a living room? A train? Anything UNDER 20 Meters is the broad definition to that, sometimes closer, sometimes at that range, your PISTOL is a CQB weapon, as well as most submachine guns.

PS, just becuase you probably werent born during the Viet nam conflict, doesnt make it ancient history bubba, its still modern times, especially since someone else pointed out that the very weapons they were using then, are still used NOW.

Its not like its even that much of a different conflict to the one currently going on in the Gulf, VietCong=Insurgents, same type of guerilla war, different locations, very striking similarities, similar tactics used on both sides, although not exactly the same.

Krieg ist Krieg {war is war}, doesnt matter what era it is and a lot of doctrine today is firmly entrenched in the past, even though the tech is different now.

hehe, I remember that field manual. I also remember the instructor cutting that sucker in half with a knife and then showing us all the ways to defeat an attacker with a bayonett... Good fun knives, gotta watch them though, you might slip and my knife could cut your throat.

lmao

You should go like FH 2. They're going to have a close range hit or"whap button" (X). They then use a number selector to attach bayonet which will still be used with X but instead of hitting someone you then stab them. I think this would work really good in this mod.

For one, I know that Vietnam is still current history. I am not ignorant. 2, the Vietcong were not quite like the Iraq insurgents. They were basically a non convention part of the NVA/PAVN. Also, Vietnam was still right after WW2 where the bayonets were widely used. So it is pretty obvious that they would still use it. Today is a little different, along with the tactics, and the way weapons are used. along with their environment.

I am saying that there are many situations when you wouldn't be able to complete a move you were taught or get into the multiple positions to use it because of limited space.

Now the pictures of the marine/soldier using his knife on the enemy up close seems pretty practical, but the bayonet ones not so much unless you have some space. If the soldier or marine was even within stabbing range of the enemy, he would either most likely shoot him, or be ingaged in some kind of on the ground scuffle. That would involve rolling around and just throwing a punch or two or going for a weapon such as a lone knife. Could you use the bayonet in that position? Those seem like the positions that the soldiers and marines are encountering in Iraqi/Afganistan or either engaging targets at a range where a bayonet would be useless.


And Vietnam is similar in political ways and some other ways to Iraqi, but the terrain is quite different. My definition of close quarters would be when a group of soldiers or marines are assaulting a building and have multiple enemies in a room that is maybe 15 feet, but with much more clutter in it. And of course, close quarters is also urban combat etc. that we all know of.
When you are that close, bayonets can get caught or run into things or be pushed away. An M16 with a bayonet would be pretty long and unwieldly when you are trying to enter a doorway and get past no man's land(the doorway which is a vulnerable spot when entering.) This is why the M4 is prefered over the M16(more manuvuerbility(sp?)) along with mutliple other reasons when fighting in close quarters in Iraqi or Afganistan.

Now, I am not saying that bayonets are not useful, I am just saying that it is not used very much anymore except for incedents you may catch as opposed to the mainstream. I am just saying that it is not widely used in RL as it used to be, so why put it in a game and waste the time reworking everything for something that used that much which already has a somewhat similar counterpart in the game(kabar/knife). Why add another?

I am also not putting down Vietnam if you think I am. I have more respect and knowledge of it then you think I do.

Just my 2 cents.

Then, please, by all means, spell it correctly, its VIET {space} NAM

And the country is IRAQ, if your from IRAQ your an IRAQI, not the other way round.

And your missing a whole war in between World War 2 and Viet Nam, its a little conflict known as the KOREAN WAR, also a good read if you want to learn about bayonetting the enemy on a regular basis it took place you know, in those years between the 1940s and the 1960s, a time and place we all call the 1950s.

No need to get bent about it, you just sort of contradict some of the things you have already stated in earlier posts, we will have to agree to disagree, i just wanted to point out the flaws in the REALISM aspect of what folks are suggesting. Devils Advocate if you will.

@ Wraith
there are pros and cons to both forms of combat, you lose agility/speed with the bayonet affixed rifle as opposed to the knife alone, there is the benefit on the other end of harder point of impact and power assisted slashes with the bayonet, either form gets quite messy in the end for one or the other or both

Tony238 wrote:You should go like FH 2. They're going to have a close range hit or"whap button" (X). They then use a number selector to attach bayonet which will still be used with X but instead of hitting someone you then stab them. I think this would work really good in this mod.

WOOOOOOOOOOO THATS WHAT I WANT !!

Not spelling a few words correctly isn't a big deal. We all do it and for me, it is sometimes because of my typing and not how I spell it. Most people spell Vietnam that way anyway, so I am not the only one.

Also, I was refering to Vietnam or Viet Nam, rather than the Korean War because that war was much closer to the style that WW2 was fought rather than the more modern Vietnam/Viet Nam. The Korean war was much more open compared to Vietnam.

replace the knife with a bayonet if its more realistic.

i say yes to bayonets because i dun know how many times i have got close enuth in combat to use a bayonet and wished i had one so i could save those few bullets for futher away and anyway remember we were soldiers that movie was awsome when they all fixed their bayonets because they were all low on ammo and they just charged them all i mean really in real life if i saw like 100-200 troops running at me with bayonets charging going ARRRRRGHHH!!!! then i would of soiled myself because theres no way ur gonna kill em all and live i would of ran and anyway think of all the bullets they saved doing all that.anyway im babiling on i say yes to bayonets so i can save ammo!

iLiVeToDiE wrote:i say yes to bayonets because i dun know how many times i have got close enuth in combat to use a bayonet and wished i had one so i could save those few bullets for futher away and anyway remember we were soldiers that movie was awsome when they all fixed their bayonets because they were all low on ammo and they just charged them all i mean really in real life if i saw like 100-200 troops running at me with bayonets charging going ARRRRRGHHH!!!! then i would of soiled myself because theres no way ur gonna kill em all and live i would of ran and anyway think of all the bullets they saved doing all that.anyway im babiling on i say yes to bayonets so i can save ammo!

That was in Vietnam though, a totally different era and landscape.

well there isnt too many modern day army movies for examples and anyway if u can just attach knife to bayonet that would be good if ya dun like it dun use it ok? lol

Well I was just saying this because it was a reality mod. And watch Blackhawk down which is a midern "Military" movie, not army. The Army is something completely different then the military which consist of the US Marines, Navy, Air Force,and Army.

its also a MOVIE, which isnt always REAL LIFE....


Hollywood and realism shall henceforth and ever after never be uttered in the same sentence, under penalty of being fisted with a glass shard covered fist, in to the armpit, repeatedly until death.

It maybe a movie, but it came pretty close to reinacting real life as some military persons have said. Also watch the history channel and their reinactments such as shootout. Won't be much different, except more true to life.

bayonets are designed so that you don't have pull a knife out when it comes to melee (hand to hand) combat.

Let me straighten a few things.

CQB: is combat in a small area still using pistols etc
Melee: is hand to hand combat.

With the bayonet it designed so the bullets can fire past it and not get deflected. The SA80 (L85A2) bayonet is to the side of the mussel not a plug bayonet as some people might think. If you have ever watched the british miltary on display on trooping the colour (Queens Birthday Celebrations) they have the bayonet fixed as they are marching down 'horseguards parade' (for you yanks horseguards parade is NOT a parade but and area in central London where the volleyball will be played in the 2012 olympics) back to as I was saying the bayonet is also used by the foot guards at places of royal residance (not to stab them though) the foot guards have fixed bayonets when say like on guard at buckingham palace. (I digress again )

But yes the bayonet has been used by the british for centuries since its introduction in 1745 and still is and will continue to be a major asset to the equipment and effectiveness of the british military