Ammo bags/dumps need serious tweaking

[random pants]

Please, can we keep this a bit less personal?
Perhaps a Dev can clear this up, until then, we can only guess what exactly the bag is meant to represent.

Why guess? We have years of playing with the ammo bags ability to resupply specialist ammo. Clearly that would have been addressed at some earlier release if they didn't want us to get LAT rockets and such off bags.

What they did was make it so we couldn't keep on getting bags off of bags, by reducing its overall resupply ability.

This thread is just about addressing the fact that I think there are better ways to cure that exploit, through having more bags and tweaking the values of how many points items take from ammo bags. If they want us to stop getting LAT rockets form ammo bags (which I don't think they do), increase the number of "ammo points" it takes from a bag.

It seems like they just reduced the # of "ammo points" the BAG has, instead of tweaking the points each type of ammo has.

This leads to ridiculous things like bags disappearing when trying to resupply dressings, rockets, and getting nothing. It's lame that once you really understand how the system works, you never throw smoke or use your specialty items because you know that when you need a dressing (which has priority over everything else, if you like staying alive that is), you need to have a virtually unused kit just to get a dressing, or else the item you used will conflict with your "ammo points" and you end up getting nothing

I don't know how that isn't considered a bug of some sort.

Secondly, the reason you can't resupply your LAT is because if you give you 3, then you can put them down and slowly re supply your ammo bags = Constant ammo.

Thirdly, I do not think this mod is perfect. But I do not agree that this needs looking at.

Like I said already, the "ammo point" values need tweaking, uncluding the ammo point values for an actual ammo bag. Right now it's leading to rediculous scenarious that are more frustrating than I can take. Whole ammo crates disapearing due to taking a few rockets off of them, smokes and dressings taking WAY too much "ammo points" off bags leading to bags that sinmply disappear instead of resupplying.

[Spec]

It seems like they just reduced the # of "ammo points" the BAG has, instead of tweaking the points each type of ammo has.

Because tweaking that is simply impossible.

If they'd give us more bags, we could reload the bags from the bags. No matter how much is in one bag - as long as it is enough to fill up a rocket again, it is enough to get a new ammo bag from it.

Anything more than this, and you have infinite ammo. (only limited by how many bags can be thrown at a time) - however, always enough to fill up an infinite amount of single magazines per bag.

[hiberNative]

i understand random pants arguments. he wouldn't have these elaborate conversations with you if he didn't care about the game.

the bottom line is... i should get a new LAT-round if i get an ammo bag. if you can't prioritize what weapons/slots get resupplied first (i.e lat before rifle) then make it so that the quote is higher so that the ammo bag lasts long enough for the LAT to rearm, aka the time it takes for the LAT soldier to get a LAT round (since all slots seem to fill up simutaniously).

in other words: if i don't have anything left with a LAT or HAT kit, i should be able as a lone soldier prone by a newly deployed bag and not have my other gear "suck up" all the ammo so i don't get a new rocket round.

otherwise it's just a huge "fuck you for trying to enjoy this game" and a kick in the playability balls. i want to play the game. the resupplier dude loses his ammo bag anyway so no need to be cheap with the content of the only bag.

which reminds me. yahtzee should review project reality for his zero punctuation. i can imagine what it would be like...

[Solid Knight]

Dressings shouldn't really count that for the ammo bag. I mean, looking at the size between the two if the ammo bag was nothing but dressing it'd be capable of holding at least 25 of them. Besides, when people want ammo they're not talking about medical supplies. If anything, dressings should be obtained by medics instead of rifleman.

[ReadMenace]

It's my understanding that a weapons' draw on the ammo bag is derived by it's max capacity. If you can hold only one of something (field dressing), then it's going to take most of the ammo bag to refill it. Now if you can carry a lot of something (rifle magazines), then the ammo bag is capable of reloading lots of them.

-REad

Maybe by quoting my original post that you randompants, chose to ignore, might get the point across. Does quoting myself help? To paraphrase... hardcoded.

-REad

ps:maybeyoushouldstopbeingajerk?

Edit: User was warned for forgetting the space key or for a slight case of flaming, you choose.

[martov]

I sugested something, it could solve the problem (if possible)
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... ition.html

[Pariel]

I smell the need to change platforms...

Personally, I find it really annoying that I have to go find an ammo box/crate to use another LAT round when in reality there is almost certainly more than one AT4 in my squad.

If that's not a point for realism, I don't know what you guys are looking for.

Maybe by quoting my original post that you randompants, chose to ignore, might get the point across. Does quoting myself help? To paraphrase... hardcoded.

-REad

There are workarounds for hardcoded problems. PR has and will deal with them. Saying "ZOMGZ HARDCODED!!1!" doesn't mean we should stop discussion/problem solving. So, while it's good to know why the issue hasn't been resolved yet, repeating this helps no one.

ps:maybeyoushouldstopbeingajerk?

Maybe people should start listening to him, and thinking outside the box, instead of putting words in his mouth and trying to make him look like a flower scented Donkey.

[random pants]

Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from, Pariel. I know there are ways to get around this ammobag problem, the DEV's are talented and creative enough.

I seriously doubt that the DEV's are totally satisfied with the ammobag system as it is now.


And thanks to the MOD's for warning REad...I'm quite used to getting flamed by PR fanboys, not used to them actually being dealt with.

[hiberNative]

yeah i think the whole deal about "hardcoded" is way overused, specially since i get a new sraw round from ammo bags in vanilla, it's actually standard.

you could use those vanilla kind of ammo bags that replenishes everything, but then let the ammo dude only have one, and being forced to get a new ammo bag from a supply/ammo crate.

no, that wouldn't mean that the ammo dude would get LOADS of ammo bags cause if the ammo guy is close to a supply/ammo crate, that means the AT guy is too, and he might as well get a new round from that.

[Rudd]

Clearly that would have been addressed at some earlier release if they didn't want us to get LAT rockets and such off bags.

thing is, its not a rocket, the at4 (and the rpg26?) are both one shot tubes iirc
little bag doesnt really cut it

but yea, since IRL I would guess that a guy would carry a spare tube or two...there needs to be a tweakin a little

this idea seems interesting
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... ition.html

[Pariel]

thing is, its not a rocket, the at4 (and the rpg26?) are both one shot tubes iirc
little bag doesnt really cut it

but yea, since IRL I would guess that a guy would carry a spare tube or two...there needs to be a tweakin a little

Is the RPG-26 in game? It is, as the AT4, disposable.

I think there are a lot of arguments for a greater number of at least LAT, and maybe even HAT rockets, per squad (I'll be very specific here for you naysayers: 2 or 3 rockets per squad). I can't actually find a source on the number of AT4's issued to US Army squads currently, but obviously 1 isn't enough to defeat anything but the light trucks. Two at least gives you the capability to take out an APC/IFV, which I think is far more realistic.

this idea seems interesting
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... ition.html

Absolutely, I think it's great!

[Mongolian_dude]

I do believe that reload speeds for weapons such as LAT should be increased.
It is seemingly unrealistic, frustrating and obselete for it to take 20ish seconds for a soldier to simply 'pick up' an AT4. I assume this long load time was introduced as to account for the preperation of the weapon before firing, but since we have the new animations, this long reload time is no longer necessery.

If this is indeed in place to reduce 'overpoweredness' or spammyness of the weapon, I think the strict perameters on the availability on LAT mean that this will be much less of a problem.


What i think would remove the whole "Sh1t3, i just reloaded a smoke, fieldy, 6 mags
and a pair of AA batteries, but I didn't get my LAT" situation is *Sigh* a request system.
I understand fully that this may mean another mountain of coding; but then I remember [R-DEV]Dbzoa lives in the jungle, amongst the choiring birds and poisonus reptiles, to whome such a mountain is pheasable.

The system would work like so:
1. The LAT/ARman requires ammunition for his RPG-7/M249. He Request ammo from his squad Rfl-man.
2. The Rfl-man drops his bag and continues about his duty (this bag does not radiate ammo to those who are near it, as currently protrayed).
3. The LAT/ARman stands within a 3m(ingame meter) radius of the bag and on his R comma rose, chooses "Re arm" (or something as such).
4. The LAT/ARman would then recive 100% ammunition for all weapons(I belive its not possible to affect single weapons).
5. The Ammo-bag disappears.



...mongol...

[G.Drew]

IIRC the idea behind it was that u can only supply guys with a couple of mags or a field dressing with the ammo bag, other stuff u need to use the ammo caches from APCs/jeeps or indeed use the supply crates, which in turn removed the need for Strutures to give ammo.

I know it can be annoying, but so far it seems to be working good.

[=]H[=TangFiend]

Coincidence

This totally happened to me just yesterday in Muttrah, we had a mixed squad and I was bearing a LAT. Got a round into the MEC apc one of my homies threw an ammo bag and I didn't manage to get a LAT reload off of it.

We were doing everything right, but all that on foot motion and smoking I guess we used too much of the other gear bag popped before I could reload.

Seriously would a squad not bring extra rockets knowing that one LAT doesn't destroy an APC?


I think Random pants identified a real problem. Limited supplies is totally cool and adds tension and realism. But a unit would bring the more of the PRIORITY limited supplies right?

[frrankosuave]

Yea, we all understand that Mr. ex soldier.......

Ammo bags were designed to resupply specialist ammo. Kits like the LAT are worthless without the ability to be resupplied at least once on the battlefield. Tell me why we have a kit who's only perk is carrying ammo, but that ammo bag doesn't do its job? This whole "its about sharing mags, man" idea is a joke. Ammo for your primary has never been an issue.

There are compromises for this problem with specialist ammo resupplies like keeping the same amount of ammo points per bag, but increasing the number of bags.

But I'm going to stop arguing about this with you, because you never disagree with anything about this game anyways. It's all perfect, right?

Edit: User was warned for being a twit ... as well he's behaving like one. Please be a bit less destructive.

I am in agreement that the bags/boxes/crates should have more goodness inside. I would like to add that reloading off of these items should be done in a much faster manner. We have been sufficiently hampered with the animations of polishing-your-weapon, then checking for hairline fractures, then kissing it for luck all before you are ready to aim, with an honorable mention to the need to stand cobra-steady for 3-10 seconds before pulling the trigger, how about we go ahead and put some urgency in the search for a clean patch as we bleed to death on the battle field? I mean, how big is the bag of ammo anyway. If I am in the heat of a battle, i will not take the time to neatly search for the single/solitary RPG that is needed for my next salvo. Does that parachute packer also pack the bag/box/crate of ammo too? Is it jam-packed full of darn packing-peanuts that we cannot get to what we are after? Did some crazy prankster put a jar of scorpions in there to slow us up?

sorry, i like to embellish a bit, but other than that, fast re-supply is desirealbe by me...

[Charity Case]

The problem of limited ammo can be easily overcome by encouraging squadmates with specialty kits not to use their field dressings and smoke grenades. If players exercise a little restraint, they should have no trouble getting by. Showing players how to use ammo bags properly helps too.

Due to engine limitations, the ammo system will always be flawed. But I prefer the current system to the bottomless ammo bag of previous versions.

[random pants]

The problem of limited ammo can be easily overcome by encouraging squadmates with specialty kits not to use their field dressings and smoke grenades. If players exercise a little restraint, they should have no trouble getting by. Showing players how to use ammo bags properly helps too.

Due to engine limitations, the ammo system will always be flawed. But I prefer the current system to the bottomless ammo bag of previous versions.

Ummm....LOL?

"Don't patch that that gaping wound up soldier, we've got to conserve this here bag that will disappear if anyone steps close to it if they've used up anything besides their magazines."

Yea, don't use smoke or dressings MR. LAT guy, because you'll need all your magical ammo points in tact to suck just ONE rocket off this ONE bag that our rifleman carries.

Give me a break. This isn't one of those "adapt and overcome" situations that everyone loves to throw around...

We don't have enough ammo. Period.

The bags are causing us to play the game in a way that is not only unrealistc as hell, it's not what the DEV's intended.

[Scot]

I never need field dressings. I use medics. Quite useful people them. Field dressings only stop me dieing if I'm black and white, or the medic has about 3 people to tend to. Really field dressings are fine.

[Head Hunter]

I never need field dressings. I use medics. Quite useful people them. Field dressings only stop me dieing if I'm black and white, or the medic has about 3 people to tend to. Really field dressings are fine.

That's a pretty useless comment, and you're not even addressing the entire problem, you're just nit picking out field dressings....

What if your medic is dead? What if there IS no medic...you do know that sometimes you don't have a perfect squad with everyone doing there job.

Plus, dressings arent anywhere as big of a deal as not being able to get LAT rockets and the fact that dressings/smoke whore the bag out to the point where if you've already used them the bag just disappears.

RandomPants, I COMPLETELY agree with you on everything you have said in this thread, ammo bags right now are largely useless.

[Celestial1]

Ummm....LOL?

"Don't patch that that gaping wound up soldier, we've got to conserve this here bag that will disappear if anyone steps close to it if they've used up anything besides their magazines."

More like "Woah, hold onto that patch, let the medic tend to you first, you can use that fieldy when you're without some help."

Yea, don't use smoke or dressings MR. LAT guy, because you'll need all your magical ammo points in tact to suck just ONE rocket off this ONE bag that our rifleman carries.

That bag shouldn't even have a rocket. Ammo bags are pretty much sized for bullets and grenades. Now, smoke nades yes. Fieldys? Not so much...

Give me a break. This isn't one of those "adapt and overcome" situations that everyone loves to throw around...

We don't have enough ammo. Period.

The bags are causing us to play the game in a way that is not only unrealistc as hell, it's not what the DEV's intended.

Now now, calm down. No need to get in a fuss, it's a discussion, not an attack.

Now, honestly, you do have a LOT of ammo on a team. And you honestly only NEED one medic. And you ALWAYS should have a medic in your squad. Now, when you get left about as your squad perishes due to an unfortunate timing of an assault and you're slowly bleedin' one out, yeah, drop it to the floor and high-tail it back to your rally or the nearest team medic.

We do have a LOT of ammo, it's mostly underused. Yeah, the bags should have just a tiny bit more ammo... but personally, I think that perhaps the rockets and fieldies should not be able to reload (preferably at all, if possible). You should be able to get the current plethora of rockets from ammo boxes from vehicles, as well as supply crates.

Most of the time I have needed ammo, it's a few clips for my entire squad as I like to keep them up on ammo. When we're running down clips, and we've used up about 10 between the entire squad, I'll tell the ammo carrier to drop a bag and to hop onto it if you've got a need for some clips or frags. Those without their fieldy or smokes (very unfortunately) are advised to wait until the high priority kits (Rifleman, Auto-Rifleman, Grenadier, etc) get their ammo, then just scavenge what they can from the bag.

In short: Less time needed for smoke nades. Perhaps not being able to resupply patches or rockets at ALL from bags, preferably. Same amount of ammo available from all other sources.

That's a pretty useless comment, and you're not even addressing the entire problem, you're just nit picking out field dressings....

What if your medic is dead? What if there IS no medic...you do know that sometimes you don't have a perfect squad with everyone doing there job.

Plus, dressings arent anywhere as big of a deal as not being able to get LAT rockets and the fact that dressings/smoke whore the bag out to the point where if you've already used them the bag just disappears.

RandomPants, I COMPLETELY agree with you on everything you have said in this thread, ammo bags right now are largely useless.

What if there is no medic? You should become one, or yell at someone in your squad to become one. If they don't, and you won't, you're the wrong player for the wrong squad and probably the wrong server.

What if the medic is dead? Patch yourself up once as you get low and wait for him to respawn and catch up with the squad to heal you all up. When you get the chance out of an engagement, have a vehicle brought to you with an ammo box/supply crate.

Ammo bags should be mostly useless; they're only big enough to pile maybe 15 clips or so, and maybe a couple of frags/smokes, not an L-AT rocket or whatever you happen to just WANT at that point in time, it's not like all riflemen only carry around a single L-AT rocket and field dressings.

Yes, there are some minor issues. But not as big as you all claim to be having; you need more teamwork between your team or to start figuring it out and taking that position on the team yourself.