Project Reality Forums

Exactly!

Outlawz wrote:Yes and it will take exactly one lab monkey with fried brain to figure out that in order to wtfpwn everything you just need to go and take out the AAV first...

1 plane vs 2 AAV?

good luck pilot .

Outlawz wrote:Yes and it will take exactly one lab monkey with fried brain to figure out that in order to wtfpwn everything you just need to go and take out the AAV first...

Well considering most people driving AAVs give them a 360 degree lock angle and they would still fail. AAVs should be dedicated looking for aircraft, not at the ground/infantry/flowers around.

If you do it properly, it is so easy to take down an aircraft in an AAV, but it seems that alot of people don´t see that, its just "ooo i has cannon and leet one driver-gunnerness i can pwn!".

If you watch some of moras videos etc, you will find that all the time the AAVs are not looking at the sky, not scanning around, they are either fighting infantry or looking at the ground. Which is epic fail.


Plus, AAV has a very stable firing platform right now plus lock with deadly missiles, while helicopters have a very unstable one and can´t lock on.

[R-CON]Alex6714 wrote:Well considering most people driving AAVs give them a 360 degree lock angle and they would still fail. AAVs should be dedicated looking for aircraft, not at the ground/infantry/flowers around.

If you do it properly, it is so easy to take down an aircraft in an AAV, but it seems that alot of people don´t see that, its just "ooo i has cannon and leet one driver-gunnerness i can pwn!".

If you watch some of moras videos etc, you will find that all the time the AAVs are not looking at the sky, not scanning around, they are either fighting infantry or looking at the ground. Which is epic fail.


Plus, AAV has a very stable firing platform right now plus lock with deadly missiles, while helicopters have a very unstable one and can´t lock on.

I disagree, taking out aircraft with an AAV is not as easy as you'd think.
First of all, you've got no idea where the target is coming from thanks to a total lack of radar, giving them first strike most of the time, I would suggest adding some sort of short ranged radar system like the UAVs built into the AAVs, but the data only viewable for the AAVs and perhaps heavy armoured vehicles.
Secondly, flares, not so much of a problem with Helicopters, but it throws a solid lock completely off, and if the pilot is low moving, he'll have cover and probably enough speed to get away, and if he's high he's got time to pop flares and bank hard.

Bottom line, AAVs are not as powerful as people think they are against aircraft, mainly because of lack of information that in real life would be available to them. And incidentally, giving the AAVs radar would allow us to justify adding stealth aircraft to the mix XD

but thats why cannons are for , with a litle tweak on them (time fuse , splash damage , rate fo fire ,etc) they can be more real life like .

Still doesn't fix my first point. It's more of a problem with jets, but still, helicopters too.

Well aircraft have even less of their real life abilities than the AAVs do.

I'm all for sharing the love on realism, as long as it's realistic for the counter as well. Give Aircraft Radar as well, give them more of their normal munitions capabilities but right now AAVs are only useful if they know where to look, and since they are large armoured ground targets, it's quite easy to get a fix on them compared to a fast moving high flying aircraft. Me and bignath were practicing on Kashan, and I never got a fix on him before he either overflew me, the target or put a couple of cannon rounds into me to indicate a kill.

Ive never really had a issue with shooting down aircraft. In fact you can easy shoot a jet down with a sabot round

AA missiles are very deadly, flairs dropped or not.

[R-DEV]CAS_117 wrote:At no point in the Battlefield franchise is multiple locks possible.

Semantics

The ability to have multiple targets lased/targeted all at once is possible.

A simple click of the mouse or press of a key and you can cycle which target has the actual lock.

Tirak wrote:I disagree, taking out aircraft with an AAV is not as easy as you'd think.
First of all, you've got no idea where the target is coming from thanks to a total lack of radar, giving them first strike most of the time, I would suggest adding some sort of short ranged radar system like the UAVs built into the AAVs, but the data only viewable for the AAVs and perhaps heavy armoured vehicles.
Secondly, flares, not so much of a problem with Helicopters, but it throws a solid lock completely off, and if the pilot is low moving, he'll have cover and probably enough speed to get away, and if he's high he's got time to pop flares and bank hard.

Bottom line, AAVs are not as powerful as people think they are against aircraft, mainly because of lack of information that in real life would be available to them. And incidentally, giving the AAVs radar would allow us to justify adding stealth aircraft to the mix XD

well if we were to make the AAs completely realistic we would have to make the choppers/planes completely realistic. This wouldnt be much fun since whenever the apache would spawn it would hover over the helipad and blast away hellfires killing everything armored. The AA just has to be a little attentive it is NOT hard to kill an aircraft with the AAv, and in the case of the tunguska its not even very hard to kill tanks.

If you dont know where the aircraft come from, scan!!! you only have to roughly aim for the planes position lock-on and fire and its dead.

If you really find the AAvs hard to use may god help u using the other vehicles since that is THE easiest one to operate.

Could this work/be possible...

The old vbf2 markers are but back in (the ones that allow you to spot frendlies/enemies - the box things)

But..

Only a right click from the gunner locks on.

What I mean is for everyone else on the battlefield they are invisible, but when a gunner wants to designate a target he/she right clicks and locks on for a laser-targetted missile.

This means that only the gunner can lock-on to the target and the box doesnt weave all over the place because the vbf2 ones are locked to the object?

Of course the initial right-click would have to be on/near the target and then take a couple of seconds to lock the missile.

There should be no difference on mark whether it be friend or foe so its still down to the gunner to ensure its the enemy he is shooting at.

This might compramise attacking at long range as you only have to click the target once in a swaying chopper rather than try to guide it in at long range.

Any thoughts or is this unworkable?

I would like to see radars in PR, but it it won't happen for some time.

[R-CON]ballard_44 wrote:Semantics

The ability to have multiple targets lased/targeted all at once is possible.

A simple click of the mouse or press of a key and you can cycle which target has the actual lock.

I am not aware of that working either. The targeting comp will track the closest target in the allowed angle. If the gunner does keep the target object within the tracking limits it will either lose lock or track the next closest. Not buttons are involved except of the "shoot" variety.

Honestly though I just can't win.

"Please nerf AA its too powerful but make flares work less because they make choppers too hard to track".

"Please cut HAT ammo by 50% because people just roflbbq pwn with it but lets remove cannons from APCs because they are overpowered and act like "light tanks" then".

"Choppers are too easy to shoot down but don't let them target vehicles because they will be overpowered".

Look maybe its because of how most games are typically balanced or maybe people tend to think in such a way but you simply cannot think of this as rock, paper, scissors. Yes rock paper scissors is very balanced but people aren't going to play it because its repetitive and boring. At least not one that has any depth at all. Sometimes rock beats paper under certain circumstances if its in a good mood and ate its wheaties. Just because you have an AA vehicle doesn't mean you automatically will kill aircraft. And just because you have a HAT doesn't mean you will kill a tank. Honestly its not so much the weapon you have but how you use it that should matter.

Yeah, the fact of the matter is the DEVs are already making us suspend our disbelief by a pretty wide margin. The engagement range of Tanks, Jets and Attack Helis is a hell of alot larger then the maps in PR, thus compromises have to be made. If they had their real life capabilities PRs non-infantry only maps wouldn't be very fun at all.

It's not realism, but if you want hardcore realism despite ALL gameplay factors then there wouldn't be any of these vehicles at all.

[R-DEV]CAS_117 wrote:Honestly though I just can't win.

Always true...Trust me, I've helped out with the SP team long enough to understand.

I am not aware of that working either.

It was a long time ago and another mod (gasp!) that i got it to work, but for example, if there was 4 heavy vehicles within view, all 4 had the 'box' automatically put on them.

Only one had 'lock' and was designated as such with the range distance below it.

But I could cycle the lock, depending on which one I deemed more of a threat.

I could then FnF and move onto the next vehicle.

In no way am i saying this needs to be implemented into PR, doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
Just that it is possible

It's not realism, but if you want hardcore realism despite ALL gameplay factors then there wouldn't be any of these vehicles at all.

On that note we wouldn't have respawns either.

If you want hardcore realism, infantry on kashan and qinling would not exist.

I've been messing around with laser designator and can see the problems with using it from a moving vehicle on a moving vehicle. However, I wonder if it is possible to use the same method the attack marker smoke in vBF2 is placed but instead of attack maker smoke it'd be a sticky LaserTarget_simrad object instead.

It was done like that, but it doesn't work online.

Mora wrote:It was done like that, but it doesn't work online.

Seems like the projectile method is the only one that works online.