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the main problem with basrah is its to small, the brits are forced to fight all the time with little room for movement. its not the armor thats a problem because of the INS uber accurate long range RPG.

To me, random spawn points have been the biggest negative change in the Al Basrah map. Gameplay seems pretty normal once these are added back.

Also, those complaining about balance and an Insurgent group that is too well armed need to keep in mind there are plenty of insurgent factions in real life that are well trained and supported by dictators or warlords who control massive amounts of drugs, oil, or diamonds to fund their work. After all Iraq is a great example of well armed and determined insurgent forces who are beating the **** out of a large nations army in skirmishes.

Just because an army is small does not mean they are poorly funded or armed.

gazzthompson wrote:the main problem with basrah is its to small, the brits are forced to fight all the time with little room for movement. its not the armor thats a problem because of the INS uber accurate long range RPG.

I respect that feeling, but keep in mind it being cramped gives the claustrophobic feeling that makes the city so unpredicatable.

random spawns = crash IIRC . then we stuck with playing them on 24/7 servers , which i dont want to go back to.

gazzthompson wrote:random spawns = crash IIRC . then we stuck with playing them on 24/7 servers , which i dont want to go back to.

I was under the impression the random spawns were a networkable object that contributed to the large number of networkable objects in the map which put it over the safety limit and crashed the server, which is why they took out several of the destructible buildings.

i have no idea, just that it crashed server from what i remember.

'[R-DEV wrote:OkitaMakoto;851819']Find a work around for having a max ladder limit or model some stair statics for all vbf2 buildings

And as Rhino said, its not like its gone unnoticed. I said it in another thread but ill say it here too

Because PR is always evolving, always changing, there are always changes that effect something that was "near perfect" in a previous release. Be it a gamemode, a certain vehicle, etc. All of these are getting tweaked and other things are getting tweaked that effect them. Especially gameplay things like Insurgency

We noticed a great change in INS mode in .8 from previous versions due to a lot of changes directly in the gamemode and from other unrelated changes. All this means is that we have to make sue with a slightly "unpreferred" style before another version comes out to fix these issues.

BUT, keep in mind it wont be a bed of roses[or at least not entirely] there might be some other changes introduced that either dont work out or just effect INS moed in a way we couldnt forsee. You know?

In the end, just know its being worked on, understand that we are always willing to listen and work to make INS mode and all aspects of PR perfect, but also know that this might take more than a release or two

<3



ps In hindsight I think Ramiel is simply too large in terms of city. Though this isnt terribly bad, I DO wonder how it would play out if the newer west half of the city were not included... Who knows, theres always other releases... Keep in mind this is only from a week of playing as I had to leave my PC behind a week after .8 was released Im glad some people like it though

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Ramiel is almost the perfect urban insurgency map! It's got just the right amount of vehicles for both sides, plenty of cover and ambush points, but also place for the US to be stealthy and sneak around.

Really, if it got more cache spawn points, just a few rally point spawns like in korengal to comabt the US camping the mosques and pig farm, and once the molotov crew killing bug is fixed it should be great.

This map is about as balanced as it can get for both factions, and korengal is almost as good.

unrealalex wrote:Hey dude! I posted the screenie of the three of us with rpgs on the roof of that building with the cache the one where you blew us up later lol.



that would have been pretty cool

Basrah V2 is excellent with the spawns.

And a recoiless AK-101 ...

Maybe a very few "Ammo" Caches very well hidden around the map?

Less objects than the uber omnipresent spawns of .75, but more than the easily campable mosque and palace.

ive had some ideas ive been thinking about for a while.

1.what if the game started with the random spawn like it does currently but stayed there till they were destroyed by the colition. and possibly give the spawn points a 30 min respawn time. instead of the 15 from .75.
2.what if all insurgents looked the same as the civi or vice versa and give the insurgents an unarmed weapon slot or the rock weapon slot but once they switch to there weapon then its ok to kill em.
3.also make it to where the civi's can drive cars and not get lit up legally. for the car to get destroyed by colition legally an insurgent would have to have his weapon out while being in the car. but the insurgents cant switch back and forth once they have a weapon no going back to the civi weapon slot.
4.what if it was made to where civi's can change kits with out dying.

i dont know if these things can be coded but i think these are decent ideas.

IMO a main problem is transport for insurgents so if they spawn with the unarmed weapon slot and stay unarmed and able to travel anywhere (except unarthorized areas) as "civi" then that would solve that problem, possibly

and another thing. ive always wanted to play a type of command and control insurgecy. where the insurgents have a certain amount of bomb cars and tehnicals and dirtbikes and colition has a certain amout of armor and trucks and helo's and command trucks. no vehicle respawns. hunting a max of like 5 cashes all located in various spots in built up city areas. i think this would be very interesting and fun...and what if the insurgents could somehow pick the spots to place their cashes????

If civilians could drive vehicles and it was illegal to shoot those, the entire Insurgent team would spawn as civies and try to run over the brits. (In the worst case at least)

This map is about as balanced as it can get for both factions, and korengal is almost as good.

Insurgency mode is about asymmetric warfare.

Balance = not asymmetric. Balance is for AAS and other modes. This is supposed to be more difficult for one side.

gazzthompson wrote:i have no idea, just that it crashed server from what i remember.

The number of networkables is the issue, not random spawns in and of themselves.

No crashes on our new server so far. The official .8 map over compensates greatly for the crashes of .75.

SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST, COULD A MOD PLEASE MERGE MY LAST POST AND THIS ONE?

another problem is to get intel with few players (<15-20) on the server.

BattleArena4 wrote:Insurgency mode is about asymmetric warfare.

Balance = not asymmetric. Balance is for AAS and other modes. This is supposed to be more difficult for one side.

Well, asymmetrical balance is balance too. Balance simply means the chance of victory are around 50% for every side (+/- 10 percent or so) if both teams have equaly good players. Asymmetric describes the way this victory is reached.

Though they are not symmetric, different factions can still be balanced - just like the good old rock-paper-scissors.

One army could for example have heavy cavalry, while the others have light pikes and halberds. The cavalry is faster and heavier armed, but outranged by the pikes and outpowered by the halberds. Still, due to the lack of armor the infantry can be overrun by the cavalry.

Insurgency should be like that. Though the coalition have better weapons and heavy vehicles, the Insurgents have more men and can use civilians for confusion, plus they can set up traps and ambushes since it is their terrain.

That isnt unbalanced at all, just not symmetric.

I'm sure I didn't have to explain every piece of that as you know what I'm talking about, but I just had to somehow put horses and spears in this post.

i believe the spawn system for the insurgent is completely fubar. I played a match where insurgents were reduced to only a few spawn points to the east of mosque, but where all the cache to defend were to the west. Noone could get there due to armor spawn camping and bunkers being built all around. They seemed organized, but they failed to find the cache, which dumb struck me. But not only are we in a firefight disadvantage already, but we have to walk 15 minutes to our cache to be faced by entire enemy squads 2 blocks away that we wont be able to hit for the life of us. It wuznt a match, it was a massacre.

Basrah is one of the best maps in the game imo and should not be pulled, for realism - until we have a MEC vs. Insurgent project on a proportion of Ins. maps any other tweak will be purely academic and simple tinkering.

I for one want to hear duckhunts thoughts on where the map should go from here.

Spec_Operator wrote:Well, asymmetrical balance is balance too. Balance simply means the chance of victory are around 50% for every side (+/- 10 percent or so) if both teams have equaly good players. Asymmetric describes the way this victory is reached.
]

Sure I agree with this and dealt with this idea in an earlier post.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... post851586

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rhino;851789']again, the problem here is in fact lack of spawns as if there was more spawns if the British armour did just rape the mosque / palace, then insurgents could easily spawn at different locations, having a tank or APC sit outside RPG range is very realistic and the insurgents should not be trying to shoot the tanks while they are out there, instead try and luar them in onto there IEDs where they are venerable.[/quote]

The spawns are only a small part of the problem. The biggest part of the problem is that the UK have way too much armor and the villages are way too small for the insurgents to effectively hide in.

Since most caches spawn in either the west village or the village south of VCP, all the UK has to do is have their armor sit far out in the distance and level the destructable buildings completely and the insurgents will have no place to hide and the UK infantry will just waltz right in.

I know you are going to say "RPGs", but RPGs cannot take out a tank, especially when they are so far back they are out of range. And since they usually camp out in the desert, how are you supposed to sneak up on them or lure them forward? Even an RPG cannot take out an APC in one hit most of the time, so they do the same thing as the tank.


Basrah lacks the amount of alleys, roads, and buildings that Ramiel has. With Ramiel or Korengal, armor cannot easily lock down a certain position where the insurgents are to spawn rape them, giving the insurgents a much needed advantage to ambush and keep the US moving. With Basrah, the whole map is pretty open, especially the villages.


IMO, if Basrah is to not become outdated, the two villages need to be linked together by another big village in between. This way, the armor can't just sit out in the desert and level the village, they would have to send in ground forces. What used to be South VCP really serves no purpose and should go IMO too.




[quote="BattleArena4""]Insurgency mode is about asymmetric warfare.

Balance = not asymmetric. Balance is for AAS and other modes. This is supposed to be more difficult for one side.[/quote]

He's means balanced as in both sides have an equal chance of winning. If it wasn't like this, no one would play insurgent side because they would get constently raped. You can't have a map that heavily favors one side. Korengal and Ramiel are the two most balanced maps in 0.8 because the insurgents have an equal chance of winning if they use their tactics and the US with their tactics.

Seriously I dont get this basra dissing. I could play this map 24/7. Oh I just saw this server running v2. Is there something new in it?

Yay! Now its 24/7 basra for me... instead of the previous 24/7 muttrah. Why do americans always put h after a on arabic city names?

there is not too much armor on basrah.
Sure, armor pwns on open terrain, but nowhere else!
An additional problem (in .80) is the 50% reduced amount of bombcars (per hour), only 1 IED and lack of ammo.