Project Reality Forums

Point.

I don't think Fools road has any problem with vehicles, people are always building bunkers but Basrah definitely has. People ALWAYS think that destroying the caches is easy, so there are no medics, no rallies, no bunkers, nothing. It sucks. And it's a nice addition that vehicles are getting wasted. NOT.

It would ruin the reality idea to have a massive amount of tanks in Fools, but I have an idea. What about reserve forces;

Militia has 4 tanks in Fools, 2 normal and 2 reserve. When a normal tank is destroyed, you can use the reserve tank and normal one becomes reserve after it spawns. It eliminates the problem that people sit in the base, but still prevents vehicle spamming.

charliegrs wrote:maybe have an idle timer for vehicles once they leave where ever they span? i mean like a really long time, like say if a vehicle is idle for more than 20 minutes it will blow up and respawn at the main. its the only way i can think to solve the problem. i know on the very odd occasion you may have to leave a vehicle somewhere, to use later maybe, or you may be stranded somewhere and happen to come across an abandoned vehicle, but i think these are rare occurences.

They already have that - iirc its 12000 sec = 2 hours. I think its less for some transport ie aircraft.
I cant see what the problem is with changing the timer to 20mins if they already have a timer. I know people use the realism argument, but it goes both ways. Would a force have so few vehicles in real life? Would they abandon them? Would they be driving somewhere and get disconnected? Would the enemy refuse to destroy a vehicle to stop it respawning? Would you get people abandoning vehicles on purpose to piss off the team?

Its not a problem on most maps really, but we all know the ones where it is.
A few changes to the .con files that would take 5 mins, would make the vast majority of the community alot happier, without affecting realism.

charliegrs wrote:maybe have an idle timer for vehicles once they leave where ever they span? i mean like a really long time, like say if a vehicle is idle for more than 20 minutes it will blow up and respawn at the main. its the only way i can think to solve the problem. i know on the very odd occasion you may have to leave a vehicle somewhere, to use later maybe, or you may be stranded somewhere and happen to come across an abandoned vehicle, but i think these are rare occurences.

Definitely not, that would just encourage ditching the vehicle because "oh it will respawn back anyways"

Then again... it happens like that now...

ReaperMAC wrote:Definitely not, that would just encourage ditching the vehicle because "oh it will respawn back anyways"

Then again... it happens like that now...

Exactly - they just think - weve got our rally up now - lets dump it. It punishes the whole team for some players tactics. Also a good squad playing the game correctly can have a rally overrun and then the vehicle is stranded. It is not fun being stuck without transport, and those of you saying walk across Kashan etc need to get a grip.

Some people re-enact commercial flights across the world using Microsoft flight sim. Very realistic Im sure - but fun? I know some of you guys would love that, but trust me the majority of people dont.
It would be a minor change, with very little effect on the game other than making it more enjoyable - thats a no brainer to me.

RedAlertSF wrote: I don't think Fools road has any problem with vehicles....

I was saying it has trouble with HAT kits when the tanks converge on Main.

The great thing about Fool's Road is that there's so much unoccupied green space that you don't lose good rallies often and you see lots of FOBs so people are almost ALWAYS way off in the field and nobody is at main after the first 10 minutes. But a big forest map doesn't requite lots of vehicles.

Basrah and other desert maps are a different story. It might be necessary to have different rules for different terrain. You should feel the loss of a Jeep or an APC in Fool's, but on Basrah mobile infantry is kind of important.

I think it should be made so the light vehicles are spawned by SLs at bunkers/main. Then just have them squad locked and a timer for x number of minutes until they can be respawned by the SL (destroying the previous one). Probably a few other limits needed (officer kit, 6 to a team etc), but I think the idea would reduce solo'ers and punish the people who use vehicles poorly.

Personally I don't quite understand why people stand around at main when there is no "transport" around.

Everyone in the game has legs. Use them. Even on large maps it takes only a few minutes to walk to where you want to go. Much better than wasting time sitting around in main. Plus, it gives the SL a chance to setup a new RP along the way. And contrary to many peoples opinions, an RP does not have to be as close to whatever objective you are trying to take.

In fact, I consider this type of RP placement a contributing, if not *the* contributing factor to the there-are-no-more-vehicles-at-main-so-lets-just-sit-around-and-do-nothing problem. Consider following scenario: SL places rally close to objective. Squad gets eliminated. Enemy notices squad is back real quick and concludes there must be an RP nearby. Enemy looks for RP. Enemy overruns RP. Enemy wipes out squad. Squad has to spawn at base. Squad takes vehicle from base and tries same strategy again. With six or more squads in a game, this will obviously result in a scarcity of vehicles at main.

Proper RP placement therefore has the potential to mitigate the transportation problem. Moreover, it also has the advantage that the enemy will have to send troops far away from the objective, thereby effectively softening up the target for your squad when they come in.

As far as I'm concerned the number of vehicles available is more than enough, if players, and especially SLs, use their heads. If they don't, and start wasting assets, or leaving them in the middle of nowhere, that's bad strategy.

Spamming vehicles is *not* the answer. This is PR, not a deathmatch game.

Real scarcity is done through a resource system, that is good design. Now anyone can waste vehicles and the game ends for the team.

Spawn timers don't do what they are supposed to and just inconvenience players. Punishing with time is just bad design.

People that waste vehicles don't lose anything, the cost is carried by the own team. So bad pilots have no incentive not to crash a chopper and then play infantry or change servers.

So you can either have individual resources that can be pooled. Let squads spawn their own vehicles that subtracts from their point totals (get points for teamwork, lose for TK etc... like it already is) [keep track of full score value for end of round]. Or allow the commander resources (based on map control) that he can spend, allow people to actually want to play commander and encourage the team to take 51% of the map (with no ticket bleed getting more kills is more important then map control).

Vehicle numbers are pretty good atm

when you are driving down the road and you see an abandoned vehicle, recover it
when you have a loaded truck, build a firebase - 2 vehicles
when you are in combat with a vehicle, plan your repair cycle

Vehicles will be lost, but if you have no vehicles at base and you're walking...its because the enemy have planned better than you and out manoeuvred you so that you have no vehicles and no firebases, i.e. they are better than you and no amount of extra jeeps is gonna change that.

If there are no vehicles, then you walk. In 20 minutes you will be far, far away.

Guybrush_Creepwood wrote: Everyone in the game has legs.

Have you looked down in game! No legs But seriously now, I rarely get in helicopters unless the chopper pilot is in my squad, I sometimes get in APCs, but mainly walking is the best thing, as you are in control of what you do!

clueless_noob wrote:If there are no vehicles, then you walk. In 20 minutes you will have lost due to not being able to reach the front fast enough.

Fixed.

Dr2B Rudd wrote:Vehicle numbers are pretty good atm

when you are driving down the road and you see an abandoned vehicle, recover it

Something I always tell my squad mates, leave it! Its always the tendency to destroy ever enemy vehicle you come across. But dont, destroying this only allows them to receive another vehicle and if the recent occupants are near by they now know right where you are..

'[R-DEV wrote:CodeRedFox;874141']Something I always tell my squad mates, leave it! Its always the tendency to destroy ever enemy vehicle you come across. But dont, destroying this only allows them to receive another vehicle and if the recent occupants are near by they now know right where you are..

Or if it's the Chally, then ambush it!!

motherdear wrote:the problem is not with the vehicles spawn time, if you get more vehicles people will just ditch them. the problem is with the player base though (which is pretty hardcoded),the only way tp change this attitude is if people like as an example the thread creater grew a pair and walked (and for christ sake if you make a rally point make sure to make it away from the fight so that it's not compromised)
but i really don't get the squads uneasiness with walking on small maps like basrah. on kashan i can understand the problem but tbh you almost never run out of some kind of transport on that map. and if you get a truck, don't go to the objective if there are no FOBs up, go create a spawn for your team instead of making a cluster fuck of ditched vehicles at the bunkers.

I have to second this on Basrah. I've played Basrah and have walked quite a few times, and it is still fun. but that's because Having VOIP and chatting with the squad-mates pretty much makes PR and BF2 for me.

But most people play Kashan, I almost never play Kashan, and from what I've been able to gather, it's a big ****ing map.

Yeah CodeRed I'm pretty sure he was talking about if you run upon an abandoned vehicle of your own side, to recover it meaning take it. Not to blow up the enemys...that doesn't really count as recovering.

Cobhris wrote:Fixed.

If your team have let the situation propagate to the point where you have no transport, no spawn points out on the field and less than 20 minutes to an epic failure, then you have really deserved to lose. It so simple.

You can't win every time, and especially, you can't win when you are surrounded by team of idiots.

Got yeah! Point still stands with OPFOR vehicles

Mines are fun though

But yeah, recovered friendly abandoned vehicles if possible. In one round of Korengal, there were 4 abandoned humvees at one rock-slide, just sitting there.

Whatever you do, dont decrease the time-to-live for vehicles. I'd find it much more annoying and unrealistic to have vehicles magical disappearing all the time than standing around for no reason. If the enemy doesnt blow it, its far away from any base or rally, and there is noone to drive it into safety - thats just fail and deserves the loss of this vehicle. And if the enemy has not discovered it yet, the chances of getting there and driving it into safety are not that low.