Air Vs Air maps

[-=chris=-]

whats about a muttrah style map but with ins and jets maby a destructible fortress to bomb in the hills and a large amount of caves to bomb out

[Tirak]

We can always use placeholders for aircraft and carriers not yet finished. It's been done in the past.

[Wilkinson]

whats about a muttrah style map but with ins and jets maby a destructible fortress to bomb in the hills and a large amount of caves to bomb out

It wouldnt work as well as we think due to the destructable object overload, plus its a 8 on 8 map. Personally i say we make it dark, get them some nvgs and let em duke it out in a black/grey haze

And we could use glowshit to light up runways

[503]

Night dogfights? Holy ****, that would be amazing yet frustrating.

[Rudd]

well what happened to that Kashan night map som1 was making, last I remember he put lights all over the runway

[503]

well what happened to that Kashan night map som1 was making, last I remember he put lights all over the runway

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f66-pr-community-modding/48809-map-kashan-desert-night-version.html

[aperson444]

Maybe you could take something like insurgency where you have to bomb depots or outposts. These outposts could have a small staff of anti air too.

[Bringerof_D]

i would love this, also could try for like mountainous areas, no trees just mountain and snow, would make dogfighting a little more interesting then on open water. players would have to be careful when they dives and do maneuvers to gain speed and angle so they dont hit the deck. also once down on the deck it would be exciting to see 1 plane chasing another at low altitudes weaving between hills and mountains. unrealistic for fighter jets to get that low but hey.

[Bringerof_D]

It wouldnt work as well as we think due to the destructable object overload, plus its a 8 on 8 map. Personally i say we make it dark, get them some nvgs and let em duke it out in a black/grey haze

And we could use glowshit to light up runways

loving it

[Spartan0189]

Well, I like the idea,

Just, You could spice it up a bit by adding AA units (like the avenger) for the Faction Force.. Instead of having just a straight out air battle..

Besides, the only reason why PR has maps with aircraft is so it can provide support, not direct combat..

Its a necessity to have one in a combat. Dont you agree? and I doubt that many people know how to fly.

[Snazz]

If this had a poll i'd vote yes.

[AnRK]

i think this is kind of a cool idea but what would the objective be? i dont think you will be able to capture any points if your in a jet going 500 miles an hour. likewise, if it just becomes a slugfest to run the other teams tickets out then i think it would end being kinda boring after a while

Bit of a late reply, but basically my idea was more along the lines of say team X is being attacked by team Y and team Y has to to destroy objectives 1, 2 & 3 before * time runs out or something, didn't really think flags would be such a good idea for an air map... Obviously you could integrate some AA in that too.

I assume the Essex can't be made destroyable though, you could potentially have a land based force that is being attacked by the "carrier" force and make it so the US team has to wipe out all objectives to win but the land based force can take down the carrier to win. Bet my arse you couldn't do that though.

[Tirak]

Well, I like the idea,

Just, You could spice it up a bit by adding AA units (like the avenger) for the Faction Force.. Instead of having just a straight out air battle..

Besides, the only reason why PR has maps with aircraft is so it can provide support, not direct combat..

Its a necessity to have one in a combat. Dont you agree? and I doubt that many people know how to fly.

Straight out air battle, with a large cap zone in the sky. Kill off your enemy, they go on the bleed. And remember, vehicles cost tickets now.

[Kruder]

Other than gravitional pull thing,it'll be pointless,because there are no dogfights in PR.I'd say surviving in air depends on:

%20 experience of the pilot -not the skill or reflexes-
%50 teamwork provided by ground troops(mainly information provided by them ,position of friendly AAVs etc.)
%30 luck.

I've seen a lot of guys who cannot even properly land the AC or miss static soft targets with canons repeatedly,but managed to kill lots of aircraft with experienced pilots in them.

Final parameter:most of the time the AC ,who spots enemy first will kill his opponent within seconds,which will make the map even more pointless...Just bring back the Kashan training,so people can practice a variety of things like how to shoot/evade AA,proper use of flares/lasers along with air vs. air combat...

[Tirak]

Other than gravitional pull thing,it'll be pointless,because there are no dogfights in PR.I'd say surviving in air depends on:

%20 experience of the pilot -not the skill or reflexes-
%50 teamwork provided by ground troops(mainly information provided by them ,position of friendly AAVs etc.)
%30 luck.

I've seen a lot of guys who cannot even properly land the AC or miss static soft targets with canons repeatedly,but managed to kill lots of aircraft with experienced pilots in them.

Final parameter:most of the time the AC ,who spots enemy first will kill his opponent within seconds,which will make the map even more pointless...Just bring back the Kashan training,so people can practice a variety of things like how to shoot/evade AA,proper use of flares/lasers along with air vs. air combat...

Part of this is the fact that there's only one interceptor coupled with one bomber. You can't have effective wingmen or really Aircraft cooperation because there's not enough aircraft. That'd be like saying, it's impossible to have armor teamwork on EJOD, well yeah, because there's only one tank.

[D|ehard]

I know rudd stated that if you kill the air assets you could win etc. I know in python you can make new gamemodes etc. What about changing the amount of tickets you lose when the jet/helo is gone? Like most PR maps have tickets up to 350 and above(On Most Cases) Just double the amount of damage it does to the team/game.

[Truism]

There was an old Desert Combat map that existed on this premise by the name of DC_NoFlyZone.

Basically the map was two airbases seperated by valleys and mountain ranges with a river running through it and some medium cloud cover. The the middle of the map were three flags (literally flags) floating a few hundred meters up over the river. It was highly impractical for fixed wing aircraft to capture them, and so the game was about establishing air superiority so that helicopters could hover at the point until capping it.

I've often thought about trying to do something like this in PR, but there are a few problems.

1: Air combat doesn't work very well in PR. It's very complicated, but doesn't have very much depth. For the most part it's just a question of being behind the guy at the right time and spamming missiles at him.

2: Flares are too effective.

3: Helicopters aren't very much fun to fly in PR compared to DC - evasive maneuvres are mostly too easy because of the extremely good accelleration on PR Helis and their miraculous ability to pull out of inverts. As a result, the cappers wouldn't have to have quite the same finesse as they did in DC days.

4: Jets are all too similar - see 1. In DC there were so many different aircraft it was almost a joke. There was something to suit everyone's dogfighting style in noflyzone - in PR, we're using the vbf2 multirole concept for the most part.

5: DC_noflyzone worked as a map because the terrain was actually ludicrously good for evasive flying in. It was a lot of fun to do those trench runs under pressure. These things would be absent in PR, and are unsuitable with PR flight physics anyway.

6: There was Radar in DC - PR doesn't have anything to facilitate large scale dogfighting.

[Tirak]

1: Air combat doesn't work very well in PR. It's very complicated, but doesn't have very much depth. For the most part it's just a question of being behind the guy at the right time and spamming missiles at him.

Again, not enough friendly aircraft to give dogfighting any depth in PR right now. When was the last time you saw the F-16 actually fly support for the A-10? By giving a decent amount of aircraft, you can have wingmen and squadrons covering each other.

2: Flares are too effective.

Lock alerts don't happen until after you've been locked and then some.

3: Helicopters aren't very much fun to fly in PR compared to DC - evasive maneuvres are mostly too easy because of the extremely good accelleration on PR Helis and their miraculous ability to pull out of inverts. As a result, the cappers wouldn't have to have quite the same finesse as they did in DC days.

Who says that the gamemode needs helis capping flags. Why not just one flag in the center of the map with a gigantic cap radius.

4: Jets are all too similar - see 1. In DC there were so many different aircraft it was almost a joke. There was something to suit everyone's dogfighting style in noflyzone - in PR, we're using the vbf2 multirole concept for the most part.

There are other aircraft in both Vanilla BF2 and members of BSS that we could borrow.

5: DC_noflyzone worked as a map because the terrain was actually ludicrously good for evasive flying in. It was a lot of fun to do those trench runs under pressure. These things would be absent in PR, and are unsuitable with PR flight physics anyway.

Why would it be absent? Using static terrain you can have varied terrain, but as a concept test, the first map would likely be a large ocean simply to get the concept down.

6: There was Radar in DC - PR doesn't have anything to facilitate large scale dogfighting.

Actually, there is a radar system being tested for Attack Helicopters that is showing promise. I see no reason why it could not be adapted for jets as well. Or even better, with the two seats, second seat is a radar officer for enhanced teamwork.

[D|ehard]

I have to say, very good ideas and talks going on here. It all depends on what you want. I know their is places in RL in the eastern part of the world that fit to the No Fly Zone DC map,The terrain etc.

[supahpingi]

LOLOLOLOLOL

D0GFI1GH7Z 4R3 N0T TEH RE4L1ST1CZ
srsly tough,they dont happen due to overpowered missilies
And if servers are goign to run this map in thier maplist you will get maps weher you will be stuck without being able to fly(im flying like a whale,so bassicly:i fall out of the sky) and alot of tards that will fly into you for fun

bad idea