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There is a fine line between realism and fun. Trust me taking out the warnings would make flying no fun at all and last about 2 mins after take off each

As far as I know 0.85 AA is better than 0.8 AA, lock tone delay combined with damage increase.

Anyway here is one of the main points:

You want the choppers to need exteme amount of teamwork to survive, while 1 guy running alone with an AA kit is able to kill one without any worries what so ever?

What kind of balance is that?


Anyway, there may be reports of 100 choppers shot down, but compare that to the amount of choppers operating + the amount of CAS runs and hours they have been doing.

I see a lot of ideas have been written since my last post.

A lot of people still don't understand my request completely and still insist that the issue is about making the AA more powerful when is not the case here.

Yes, the main idea is to get rid of the non realistic warning for a passive missiles lock in planes and helicopters but, if just that would be made of course the game would be a bit imbalanced for the guys flying. So I suggested that the helis/planes should get more flares and flares should be deployed in pairs.
Another thing to help deploying in realistic manner the IR missiles would be to either make (if possible) the helis/planes to be lockable only from behind or increase the "armor" of the helis/planes for frontal parts so a missile would have reduced effect on that area.
Reducing the range and general accuracy of IR missile would also help keep the balance but,

When you have a heli that just escapes death after lingering a hot zone (wiping out enemies like in wet dreams inspired from movies) because he "felt" the AA launcher looking at him is nonsense. Yes... is normal as a pilot flying low in a enemy infested zone to be cr4ping your trousers. Yes, you will abuse the flare button and when it makes the "empty" sound you will start crying for mommy... but, that is normal... evasive maneuvers, duck for cover below sand dunes or buildings and run.. like hell. That is normal routine. I always like the pilots that manage to fly treetop in Mutrah City no matter the side I have.

There are just 2 AA kits available for a team AFAIK... so why not hunt them with infantry. They are easy prey... what's wrong with relying on your team to clear your way as a pilot?

And for pilots that just cling to the idea that is good as it is... how about putting back icons for enemies, map on screen, enemy spotting by commo rose etc? How about the old warnings for the tank crews? We are in Reality Mod aren't we? There is no such warning in real life! Yeah.. we heard about some neat devices that detects missiles after launch etc but, for a guy looking from a rooftop at a heli through his Stinger aimpoint there is no warning, just make sure that guy isn't there.

This is an unrealistic thing and some ways to make it better have to exist. Some would mean a bit of adaptation from pilot and AA crew but... all for the best right?

I think the point is, in many cases it is realistic that the aircraft detects the launch.

Alex6714 wrote:As far as I know 0.85 AA is better than 0.8 AA, lock tone delay combined with damage increase.

Anyway here is one of the main points:



What kind of balance is that?


Anyway, there may be reports of 100 choppers shot down, but compare that to the amount of choppers operating + the amount of CAS runs and hours they have been doing.

It is really hard to kill a chopper with an SA-7, so a lot of people operate in AA pairs. I have seen people use a combination of AA and 50 cal to bring down choppers. I often see people use multiple AA guns (stinger, stationary stinger, and 50 cals) in coordination. TBH I fly a lot, and I have NO PROBLEM evading AA. I don't know why everyone is complaining.... I just thought a slightly refined version of the .8 AA would be nice. Fly low and fast, land in places that are clear, and AVOID AA. In real life you can't simply take on AA rambo style. I can see where this is going... . I know for sure if the AA is nurfed even more, a lot of people playing infantry,are going to get pissed.
Don't fix stuff that isn't broken.

-It's sooo much easier to take out a chopper with an SA-7, I'm not sure I've ever missed with it. Stop using it wrong.

Which doesn´t make sense, because the AA in 0.85 is better than 0.8.

I have seen people use a combination of AA and 50 cal to bring down choppers. I often see people use multiple AA guns (stinger, stationary stinger, and 50 cals) in coordination.

Tbh I don´t see much of this, but you want to make it so that poeple don´t need cooperation to take an aircraft down?


And forgetting that aircraft in PR don´t have their SEAD abilities.

SEAD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS21141.pdf

EADS N.V. - Suppression of enemy air defences (SEAD)

Good old wild weasel, egh alex

Emnyron wrote:The point is zaelu lacks the skill and will to comprehend the situation of the pilot, he`s just mad becuse he got trampled by somone who, despite the hardships, coud still use the air assets.
Seeing this, he wants a way to get back at them, and following the logic, he wants more nerf to the air assets..

Awesome comment, shows real maturity and comprehension of what's being discussed here.

a few comments on the subject, as both a frequent PR heli pilot and casual AA user:

i agree that even if it's unrealistic, the lack of warning tone for the shoulder mounted AA's would give those weapons a pretty big advantage. post- 0.85, Huey life expectancy has increased due to the power/speed boost, but it is pretty aggravating to be blown out of the sky without any warning.
The only way i could see the removal of the tone as usable in game, is with a dramatic decrease in range, travel time and locking duration for the shoulder mounted AA. Make it's max range 2-300m MAX, and a 5-7 second delay to lock, and i'd be all for it. It would punish low and slow pilots who linger in the hot zone, and be of little effect to fast zoomers who get in and out popping flares.

As to the flares suggestion, i don;t think a massive increase in flares would help. It would encourage flares being popped all over, causing all AA to cease functioning.

From the viewpoint of an AA gunner, once the heli popped flares, its almost impossible to kill it. most chopper carry 30 flares/6 makes for 5 flare drops. 2 flares/drop would bump it to 15 uses, 3 times what it is now, even without extra flares.. choppers could pop flares all the way from the carrier to N city and back to safety( muttrah).. i dont see that as a viable solution.

And yea, the light AA kit really needs a boost. at least give that guy a 9mm to defend himself with..

but with 2 flares, you're not nearly as likely to lose track initially.

Also, a 300m range max and the delay on lockon would make it impossible to hit a huey anyways. Their travel speed would mean they would be out of range before a lock on, and the only way to hit one would be with a landing huey nearby, and even then a 2-3 RPG-7's would be far more effective. The delay for lack of warning might be nice, but the range would cripple any AA system.

A different approach is simply to due it like the jets, with a small second delay in the warning system.

We have to balance gameplay and realism... I think this would just make the game bad. The maps are too small and viewdistances too short to have this. My vote: Leave it how it is.

Hoboknighter wrote:but with 2 flares, you're not nearly as likely to lose track initially.

Also, a 300m range max and the delay on lockon would make it impossible to hit a huey anyways. Their travel speed would mean they would be out of range before a lock on, and the only way to hit one would be with a landing huey nearby, and even then a 2-3 RPG-7's would be far more effective. The delay for lack of warning might be nice, but the range would cripple any AA system.

A different approach is simply to due it like the jets, with a small second delay in the warning system.

yeah, 2 flares might not be enough.. to break lock.

But i think a 300m range for lock would not be so bad with the shoulder mounted AA. It would be pretty scaled to the maps we're playing, and would be a great threat to the ones that go low and slow in the hotzone, or linger.. and less to those that do it right. TO get the ones going fast, you would have to set yourself up along thier flightpath so you could take advantage of them closing to you( to lock) then fire as they just pass you..

But a longer delay would work as well.. We're just discussing theory here anyway, i'm pretty sure this will not be implemented in the game.

I don't think we have in the game radar operated (guided) AAA (all surface to air missiles depicted in the game are IR AFAIK) but, would be nice to have a good modeled Shilka. I don't need missiles anyways and the planes/helis could keep the warning sound. but this would not make it into this mod in near future as Tunguska like vehicles were removed and AA quads without any means of aiming have been introduced...

Seriously... I believe the real balance in this area after moding the BF2 vanilla into PR would had been to completely drop the planes out of the game. Then the Helis/AA dilema would had been easier. My 2 cents.

I mean... we droped the Arty from the commander (instead of increasing the time for reloading) but, we gave now super JDAM and Mortars... Is artilery obsolete btw? Sry for a bit of OT.

Ok i have a question then.

How does the AA work in PR then?

Because the flares defense i have seen is that its deployed to break lock, preventing the person to fire on him. But if the missile is fired after locking on to the target, and the target deployes flares after that, does it actually affect the missle?! IRL yes, but in PR i dont know.

Whenever i achieved lock and fired and then the plane/chopper popped flares, there was nothign to stop the missle from being locked on to the plane.

So if you guys remove that warning until the missile is actually fired, you take away the only thing to stop the missile from coming at the plane/chopper.

I could be wrong offcourse, i mean im not sure how the AA works in the PR engine.

ralfidude wrote:Ok i have a question then.

How does the AA work in PR then?

Because the flares defense i have seen is that its deployed to break lock, preventing the person to fire on him. But if the missile is fired after locking on to the target, and the target deployes flares after that, does it actually affect the missle?! IRL yes, but in PR i dont know.

Whenever i achieved lock and fired and then the plane/chopper popped flares, there was nothign to stop the missle from being locked on to the plane.

So if you guys remove that warning until the missile is actually fired, you take away the only thing to stop the missile from coming at the plane/chopper.

I could be wrong offcourse, i mean im not sure how the AA works in the PR engine.

They do affect a locked on missile, but due to PRs high speed and huge proximity radius it is smaller.

Ok, just based on that answer, do you guys really still want to mess with making it harder on the pilot??

Come on....


When you hear the lock on the missile is already on its way.


It takes less than a second and a half before the missile reaches you.


It wont be safe to fly anymore, anywhere, anytime....