Project Reality Forums

SSG Jay wrote:Since when, who takes the time to remove the tracer rounds from ammunition crates before loading them these guys don't say "Hey stop giving me tracers in my ammunition supply" they say "Give me more ammunition so i can put more rounds down range", that would take hours and days with weapons like automatic support and mounted weapon systems. But as far as the gameplay I think that they should just be less visible on lighter maps and more visible on darker maps.

Theres no dark maps in PR. I think they should be removed only for gameplay reasons though, and in game on weapons with ironsights the tracers dont really help you out. Agree with rudd though for keeping them on mgs.

In RL, are tracerrounds meant to hit stuff or just show where you're shooting? I mean, if you loaded a mag full of tracers, would you be as efficient at hitting and killing as with normal rounds?

job86 wrote:In RL, are tracerrounds meant to hit stuff or just show where you're shooting? I mean, if you loaded a mag full of tracers, would you be as efficient at hitting and killing as with normal rounds?

why would you load a mag full of tracers outside the field to play starwars or something(
thats what we call it)

and its just like i said, it helps keep track of your ammo as well.

Theres no dark maps in PR.

Half the maps in PR are dark maps most if im not incorrect - all of the maps with china are darker maps. You think it has to be complete midnight darkness to be considered dark?

because people hand load their magazines, and the likely hood of them HAVING tracers available to them is low. if it's a belt fed weapon then i would understand what you're saying but for mag fed weapons, unlike our Blufor guys they dont go to an armory where they have stripper clips ready, they reach into a drum of rounds and load them manually.

Ok well you say "your" BLUFOR, what are you RL OPFOR and your there loading their magazines? You don't know who loads their magazines, they don't even have any films out there showing them loading their magazines and whos doing it, so you don't even know their routine, unless of course once again your one of those?
All i know is what i've seen aswell as alot of other soldiers wearing Overseas ribbons and what you probably never have. But somehow knowledge comes from the same place oxygen originates from, thin air?(the previous comment was a metaphor)


Don't think because I have my view on RL doesn't mean I agree with the tracer situation in-game, just don't continue to tell me that I don't know what im talking about.

Don't assume what you saw or others saw over there, is what always happens.

Really there's only two people who could clear this up. One being the insurgents themselves. And the other being someone who works in whatever branch of the military that deals with weapon cache disposal, or record keeping, or whatever, just someone who has seen a lot of enemy weapons and ammo.

'Nobody knows how they load their mags' LOL I keep picturing some kind of 3rd world robot that sits there loading mags for insurgents. Honestly Jay, they're given cases of bullets, and have empty mags. It's not rocket science. They're not a professional military.

SSG Jay wrote:
Ok well you say "your" BLUFOR, what are you RL OPFOR and your there loading their magazines? You don't know who loads their magazines, they don't even have any films out there showing them loading their magazines and whos doing it, so you don't even know their routine, unless of course once again your one of those?
All i know is what i've seen aswell as alot of other soldiers wearing Overseas ribbons and what you probably never have. But somehow knowledge comes from the same place oxygen originates from, thin air?(the previous comment was a metaphor.

I do not grab information from thin air, magazines don't come loaded from the factory. Magazines and rounds are bought separately, and tracers separate from regular rounds. Why would an insurgency spend extra money on tracers? it negates their tactics and is a waste of their funding. Stripper clips used to load magazines don't come with rounds attached either. the only reason the clips used to load the magazines for conventional troops have tracers are because the supply staff hand load 10 rounds into each clip (or 5 depending what length clips they happen to be using) 1 tracer out of every 5 rounds loaded, this is the same for ANY military, supply gets a box of rounds and a crate full of clips and another crate full of magazines. to put tracers into your magazine is work. it's not a matter of taking them out, it's a matter of not putting them in.

and yes Badmojo, they dont have supply staff who have the time to sit there and count 1 through 5 all day to make sure they have tracers.

SSG Jay wrote: Ok well you say "your" BLUFOR, what are you RL OPFOR and your there loading their magazines? You don't know who loads their magazines, they don't even have any films out there showing them loading their magazines and whos doing it, so you don't even know their routine, unless of course once again your one of those?
All i know is what i've seen aswell as alot of other soldiers wearing Overseas ribbons and what you probably never have. But somehow knowledge comes from the same place oxygen originates from, thin air?(the previous comment was a metaphor)


Don't think because I have my view on RL doesn't mean I agree with the tracer situation in-game, just don't continue to tell me that I don't know what im talking about.

So you don't know their routine, unless of course once again your one of those?
You are not one of those are you?
Then maybe, you dont' know just like rest of us.

Please, many of your posts feel bit offensive and angry. Thank you for posting but it is also important and good manner to keep good atmosphere.

Have you read my last post?

Thing is, no one knows. You, I, and all of us will know after 40 years when all these are over, and once we are visiting "The 2003 Iraq War Museum at Baghdad" or whatever. Im sure there is gona be museum, interview to former Iraqi Insurgents and US Armed Forces Veterans etc just like we had in every previous wars. Museum and interview to WWII soldiers and Vietcong alike.

But for now, please keep this on topic, and only thing we can do is guess and make best simulation with what we have.

badmojo420 wrote:Don't assume what you saw or others saw over there, is what always happens.

Really there's only two people who could clear this up. One being the insurgents themselves. And the other being someone who works in whatever branch of the military that deals with weapon cache disposal, or record keeping, or whatever, just someone who has seen a lot of enemy weapons and ammo.

'Nobody knows how they load their mags' LOL I keep picturing some kind of 3rd world robot that sits there loading mags for insurgents. Honestly Jay, they're given cases of bullets, and have empty mags. It's not rocket science. They're not a professional military.

Guess who deals with weapon cache disposal? Whoever finds the cache, but I bet you all didn't know that either. Regular ammunition is disposed of on sight, If it's not ordinance, but if it is then EOD does and 9/10 when EOD disposes of cache you will be there to see it because you have to be the one to call them to take it out. So I guess I'm wrong about that too aren't I? As many times as I've had fun sitting back watching the big boom of ammunition and IED's, it's not like I haven't seen a weapons cache up close, even got to grab a offhand AK-74 when I had no spare ammo. But we got those from places without any military force even on the grounds of the middle east, trying to tell me that they know who loads the ammunition and who manufactors it aswell as who fires it.

Don't tell me I'm wrong at what i've seen, theres always the possibilty of them not using tracer rounds but just don't tell me what i've seen is incorrect as if my own eye's are a extension of yours.

Why would an insurgency spend extra money on tracers?

You don't know much about how ammunition is bought outside some innocent firing range I assume.

You think it costs extra money to buy tracers. A box of 1000 ballpoint and a box with 750 ballpoint and 250 tracers will be accurately close to if not the same in price.

it negates their tactics and is a waste of their funding.

When you guys think about tactics your leaning more towards Al'Queda who actually use military tactics and are tactical fighters with training camps.But When you talk about insurgency then your talking about guys who are jump right off the truck and start firing type of milita they are all joining in day by day and soon as they pledge to join, they are automatically on the battlefield, most with absolutely no battlefield experience behind the gun. They don't go through month-2month training camps before they can go into combat. They aren't as organized in tactical warfare as you think. Your giving all of Al'Queda's credit to the insurgency by not even being able to tell the difference in their militia. If I was able to stand across a insurgent just 80m away and not get hit by a whole entire magazine while barely double timing, I know not to give them the credit of being tactical fighters. But one thing I try not to do is talk about my direct combat experience in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I must agree that the tracers are too visible but not only on lighter maps. I think it's a matter of them having trace that has a too large diameter rather than them beeing too bright, although both may apply.(I'll keep my eyes open on this)

On another part of the matter:

Are the normal "bright" tracers really used that much in the normal assault rifles or even automatic rifles? It's clear and logical that they would be used in machineguns. I thought you would use "dim" tracers in assault and automatic rifles instead.


On yet another part of the discussion:

It's absurd to think that insurgents would not have at least access to tracer ammunition(according to a survey by BBC,ABC and NHK in 2007 93% of the iraqi population see attacks on coalition troops as acceptable. If you consider how many US funded militia there are additional to the iraqi army in the country, chances are that many help the coalition during the day and fight against them during the night or at the very least supply others with the ammunition they are issued). And I guess they would probably argue that a bullet is a bullet and should be used since the supplies they can smuggle around are probably not limitless...

And I guess they would probably argue that a bullet is a bullet

They think that insurgents have enough military training to identify tracer from nontracer, when you can go overseas and ask them who are the insurgents and most will respond "people just like us who chose to fight". Once I am re-enlistment and on my next deployment I will ask them just for this community, "Do you know what a tracer is". "Fuck what the drill sergeant says, we are right whatever he saw".

Remove them,makes no sense

@SSG Jay:According to you, not only RL ins. dont know stuff or cant distinguish the difference between tracer and non tracer rounds(i belive there must be a visible clue) ,but what you say is they are not intelligent enough to learnt it by time.

We are talking about an insurgency here,who kept posting videos on various internet sites with instructions to make bombs out of simple household items or scoped sniper rifles,but according to u, the same guys cant and wont be able to distinguish differences between 2 types of rounds,a concept which even a dog can learn in a few hours(maybe minutes) of training.

P.S:Unlike what you think,some of those insurgents are profesionals,like ex Iraqi army veterans,and some are get paid per kill,in other words,insurgent blackwater.Also there is this thing called EXPERIENCE,u know,people do LEARN,even animals do...

Well, here is another person with real life experience and this is what I have seen.

Generally, Insurgents do not have tracer rounds in their small arms weapons. Things like belt fed weapons typically have a 3 to 1 ratio of ball to tracer, which is why you see tracer rounds coming in, mainly from RPKs and PKMs.

This generally holds true for American Forces as well. Sometimes we use tracers in our magazines, but only for special purposes and those we have to manually load after removing them from SAW belts. I do not see why every BLUFOR weapon fires tracers in PR, we do not typically like giving away our position either.

Also, like people have said here, tracers are kind of hard to see during the day, but not impossible, especially when tracers are being fired out of a machine gun.

In the end, as you have all read and seen, it really depends and is situational, the only weapons that I believe should definitively have tracers are machine guns.

This generally holds true for American Forces as well. Sometimes we use tracers in our magazines, but only for special purposes and those we have to manually load after removing them from SAW belts.

1st Infantry Combat uses tracers in M4/M16 on general occasion unless directly ordered not to do so.

Kruder wrote:Remove them,makes no sense

@SSG Jay:According to you, not only RL ins. dont know stuff or cant distinguish the difference between tracer and non tracer rounds(i belive there must be a visible clue) ,but what you say is they are not intelligent enough to learnt it by time.

We are talking about an insurgency here,who kept posting videos on various internet sites with instructions to make bombs out of simple household items or scoped sniper rifles,but according to u, the same guys cant and wont be able to distinguish differences between 2 types of rounds,a concept which even a dog can learn in a few hours(maybe minutes) of training.

P.S:Unlike what you think,some of those insurgents are profesionals,like ex Iraqi army veterans,and some are get paid per kill,in other words,insurgent blackwater.Also there is this thing called EXPERIENCE,u know,people do LEARN,even animals do...

Stated earlier that there are some of them who have the weapon knowledge to distinguish between a tracer round and another type of round. While most of them don't, just like there are many here who have never even seen a single round of anytime and there are others who have. There are some here who can make home made videos and there are some here who can't. There are insurgents who will take off the uniform of a fallen soldier and can't even properly place on the rank insignia to look convincing but could run into another insurgent and get shot because he thought the guy was US.
I wonder how those same group of intelligent and so well trained fighters as you make them out to be, who most never fought or trained a day in their life, can get paint and mark a red cross and U-S ARMY on a truck and expect us to think its a medievac and come running for it to get ambushed, but they are all(keyword all) intelligent enough in combat arms and urban warfare, to know their using a round that doesn't just kill, but has a visible trail. There are some who doesn't use it because maybe they do know. But there's still some who does use them.

From a game play perspective, I don't see why tracers are seen as a problem. Sure they can give your position away, but it's already considerably easy to spot hostiles firing at you because of their silhouette to the hill or ground. On occasion there are still points where you be fired and you have no idea where it's coming from, it all depends on the situation.

In terms of realism one would think it a benefit to remove the tracer rounds from magazines and the such, but it doesn't mean they do it all the time if at all. In my opinion a manufacturer wouldn't want to change production (removing tracer rounds from an order) just for one client, it's their goal to sell as much ammunition as they can so they can turn over a profit.

And too any man in any war, every bullet counts.

SSG Jay wrote: Stated earlier that there are some of them who have the weapon knowledge to distinguish between a tracer round and another type of round. While most of them don't, just like there are many here who have never even seen a single round of anytime and there are others who have. There are some here who can make home made videos and there are some here who can't. There are insurgents who will take off the uniform of a fallen soldier and can't even properly place on the rank insignia to look convincing but could run into another insurgent and get shot because he thought the guy was US.

I wonder how those same group of intelligent and so well trained fighters as you make them out to be, who most never fought or trained a day in their life, can get paint and mark a red cross and U-S ARMY on a truck and expect us to think its a medievac and come running for it to get ambushed, but they are all(keyword all) intelligent enough in combat arms and urban warfare, to know their using a round that doesn't just kill, but has a visible trail. There are some who doesn't use it because maybe they do know. But there's still some who does use them.

Don't forget my personal favorite haji infantry tactic... the "I'ma shoot this here RPG at God know's what, then Jamalistan over here is going to belt dump his PKM in the same general direction". Then when the infidels shoot at me, or when my shitty worn out PKM jams, I'll run back around the corner and scream 82 Allah Snackbars while I wait for the recently called in fire mission to come screaming in.

SSG Jay wrote:1st Infantry Combat uses tracers in M4/M16 on general occasion unless directly ordered not to do so.



Stated earlier that there are some of them who have the weapon knowledge to distinguish between a tracer round and another type of round. While most of them don't, just like there are many here who have never even seen a single round of anytime and there are others who have. There are some here who can make home made videos and there are some here who can't. There are insurgents who will take off the uniform of a fallen soldier and can't even properly place on the rank insignia to look convincing but could run into another insurgent and get shot because he thought the guy was US.
I wonder how those same group of intelligent and so well trained fighters as you make them out to be, who most never fought or trained a day in their life, can get paint and mark a red cross and U-S ARMY on a truck and expect us to think its a medievac and come running for it to get ambushed, but they are all(keyword all) intelligent enough in combat arms and urban warfare, to know their using a round that doesn't just kill, but has a visible trail. There are some who doesn't use it because maybe they do know. But there's still some who does use them.

Strange,i dont think ins. as retarded as u are trying to portray,because it seems to me , distinguishing a tracer from a nontracer round and not putting that particular round into a clip/mag(whatever its called) looks like a lot less complicated ( still insist,u can teach a monkey to do that)stuff,than,for instance,making an IED in your kitchen,hiding it on roadside,then blowing it up on the exact time as a US army vehicle passes by with a cell phone,and then calmly gtfo of the scene.

Sure there will be always retards who are too dumb to think,in any community which has more than 2 persons in it,including here...

SSG Jay wrote:Half the maps in PR are dark maps most if im not incorrect - all of the maps with china are darker maps. You think it has to be complete midnight darkness to be considered dark?

No what i'm saying is is that theres not a dark enough map for there to be a noticeable improvement in what you suggested.

Kruder wrote:Strange,i dont think ins. as retarded as u are trying to portray,because it seems to me , distinguishing a tracer from a nontracer round and not putting that particular round into a clip/mag(whatever its called) looks like a lot less complicated ( still insist,u can teach a monkey to do that)stuff,than,for instance,making an IED in your kitchen,hiding it on roadside,then blowing it up on the exact time as a US army vehicle passes by with a cell phone,and then calmly gtfo of the scene.

Sure there will be always retards who are too dumb to think,in any community which has more than 2 persons in it,including here...

Thats where your experience and knowledge fail you,, because you think that every entire insurgent will be able to identify a tracer because what may seem like common sense to you may look like Physics to someone else, I know how to cook but you got others who couldn't cook if their life depended on it, you are going to call them retarded because they don't know how to cook? EVERY insurgent does not know how to make a IED and every insurgent doesn't know what a tracer is, plain and simple.

I agree, insurgents shouldn't have tracers.

Can we make it so we can choose Gun with tracer and no tracer? Is it too much work? If we can do that, then that is the fair and realistic solution.

honestly I wouldn't see the point in having their tracers removed. it would kill the point of ambushing people as INS if they could simply shoot from afar without being detected. Then the Coalition would lose their main advantage. They ought to just make the RPG's anti-personal weapons, if you want more realism and balance