Civillians to kill or not to kill?

[CyrusPI]

That's me. Mow 'em all down, the two+ minute spawns are so worth it, especially after you have every possible cache visible.

(Also I play base defense mostly, if I see you and you aren't bluefor, you're dead. No ifs, ands, or buts. Never take the chance you're spotting for something nasty.)

Yeah, the chance that a player like you is wielding a SAW is pretty high these days, so I have to hide from you guys' bullets.

It does promote non-suicidal civis. I stay back and fear for my life. And my squad is often okay with me not reviving them if there's a chance of losing the assigned "blood clotter" for two precious minutes.

And if you play defense like on Fallujah, you can afford to kill civis if you have a medic that saves you from the long spawntime; sometimes leads to renegade Insurgency if they're not arrested for three collaborator kills.

[Viki]

Everyone here admitting you shoot civvies on purpose are playing PR wrong, terribly wrong. You are people knowingly ruining gameplay, thus, the game.
I am both shocked and disappointed after reading through this topic, I always thought that it was simply mistakes, the 'people who just didn't know one is not allowed to shoot civvies' that were responsible for the unwanted civviedeaths, but NO; here we have half of the forum admitting they violate against one of the ideas of the whole game.

You should be ashamed. I would personally spit in your face if I could.

[Rudd]

You should be ashamed. I would personally spit in your face if I could.

lets all calm down

I won't lie, if I saw you killing civis ingame intentionally and it was within my power I would kick, maybe even ban you.

But those people who intentionally do it, do it since they aren't punished enough.

I remember back in .75 or so my squad was defending VCP, INS were coming down hard on us and we were all alone, we were doing well, but then one of us shot a civi by accident. "OH SH*T!!" "what?!!" "shot a bloody civilian over at Southwest" "alright, hold fire for a sec, I'll get eyes on" so, I used the SOFLAM to check who was who from then on and we had no more collateral damage.

Those were the days teh Warriors couldn't just fire Heat in to every building in the NW village to kill every INS hiding inside...





I wonder.....


is there a way to have feedback for civi kills?

What I mean is, if you kill a civilian, can the game actually hurt your avatar for it? like -1% health for each civi kill? I know its not realistic...but it'll be right in your face and stop you doing it.

[mat552]

What I mean is, if you kill a civilian, can the game actually hurt your avatar for it? like -1% health for each civi kill? I know its not realistic...but it'll be right in your face and stop you doing it.

To be honest, that won't stop people like me.
I have found I'm one of the more extreme examples of ignoring the supposed ROE, but I continue because that's just the kind of person I am. When I do my normal thing of sit in main, where the only people I should be seeing are bluefor. I have never chased down a civvi just to shoot them, I just open up on anything in my field of fire that isn't friendly. Even if a civvie is just hanging around a corner healing someone, if I can't see you, you're safe. Pop your head out, and I'll lop it off. Better safe than sorry.

On the rare occasions I do leave base (unless I'm flying, then pilot ROE apply and those are a different set of rules entirely), I only shoot at what shoots at me, I don't engage anything I can't ID.

The main point I try to make is that I'm not some soulless monster gutting lots civilian with a knife, sprinting after them like a wild animal. I'm a pretty calm base defender, and anyone I can see who isn't wearing a friendly uniform is a threat to the health of every infantry and vehicle inside, dealt with accordingly.

[spawncaptain]

Congratulations, you just became a (virtual) war criminal.

Know that guy? He also liked to shoot civilians.

Devs, you failed. Civi murderers should always be punished for killing unarmed civilians. Shooting them just for giving the insurgents medical aid is illegal and a warcrime. Do you want us to portray war criminals ingame? Why not implement mass graves?

[Peeta]

Instant Death for shooting a civi is acceptable. That WOULD stop people.

[VapoMan]

The other day i was being killed as a civillian because
"Theres only 10 minutes left so what does it matter, and i'd like YOU to die and have a long spawn time".
Thats what someone on the US team said to me.

When a civillian death occurs, one or more of the following should happen:
The killer should have an instant death
Have the kill treated as a teamkill
Have tickets taken off

OR the kill results in giving the insurgents special things like more vehicles, weapon kits, maybe even BETTER weapon kits spawning.
Because if a civillian was killed, it would cause outrage and so more people would join the insurgents cause by giving them weapons and such.


And btw i saw a civillian who was being arrested by a whole squad, and when they finally got him arrested he went flying in the air like he got blown up with c4. Quite a strange site

[Dug]

Instant Death for shooting a civi is acceptable. That WOULD stop people.

Agreed.


Mat people like you should stay away from pr.
No offence , go back to vanilla and shoot everything you want.
TK for vehicles.
I don't really give a damn.

lets all calm down

I won't lie, if I saw you killing civis ingame intentionally and it was within my power I would kick, maybe even ban you.

But those people who intentionally do it, do it since they aren't punished enough.

I remember back in .75 or so my squad was defending VCP, INS were coming down hard on us and we were all alone, we were doing well, but then one of us shot a civi by accident. "OH SH*T!!" "what?!!" "shot a bloody civilian over at Southwest" "alright, hold fire for a sec, I'll get eyes on" so, I used the SOFLAM to check who was who from then on and we had no more collateral damage.

Those were the days teh Warriors couldn't just fire Heat in to every building in the NW village to kill every INS hiding inside...





I wonder.....


is there a way to have feedback for civi kills?

What I mean is, if you kill a civilian, can the game actually hurt your avatar for it? like -1% health for each civi kill? I know its not realistic...but it'll be right in your face and stop you doing it.

Doing that would be pointless.
They would get a medic to heal them.

Killing a civi should be punishable by instant death.
No wounded no bleeding.
Pure black death.

Everyone here admitting you shoot civvies on purpose are playing PR wrong, terribly wrong. You are people knowingly ruining gameplay, thus, the game.
I am both shocked and disappointed after reading through this topic, I always thought that it was simply mistakes, the 'people who just didn't know one is not allowed to shoot civvies' that were responsible for the unwanted civviedeaths, but NO; here we have half of the forum admitting they violate against one of the ideas of the whole game.

You should be ashamed. I would personally spit in your face if I could.

I was disapointed and shocked too.
Too many newbies who won't try to follow game rules and the way the game was meant to be.

[Urko23]

Whilst mistakes are bound to happen, I've been in situations as a civilian where I've been shot regardless of touching the sky at the time.

As for being on the other coin, I generally try and feign ignoring the little blighters, dodge their rocks etc then make a dash for an arrest. Never bother shooting them, bad karma!

[Dekno]

Instant Death for shooting a civi is acceptable. That WOULD stop people.

I dont know instant death seems a bit harsh. How about you get the exact same damage as the Civi you shoot? So if you do one on accident you can still recover,if you give him a headshot (Which is not very likely to happen if you dont plan killing him imo) you die aswell,seems a bit fairer,everyone can have an accident once in a while.

[mat552]

Instant Death for shooting a civi is acceptable. That WOULD stop people.

No. It wouldn't.

My job is to keep your *** safe while your helicopter is on the pad, or keep your apc from getting boxed in with mines. Considering that there's plenty of cover to be had, and that there is absolutely no need for a civvie to walk into my sight line, I don't see the problem.

I challenge someone to name a map where civilians MUST walk past the entrance(s) to the us main to get to something important. Where they have no other choice, no buildings to go around, nothing but the choice to sprint in front of some base defender's field of fire. And I do mean the US main. I don't guard firebases, nor do I open up on anything that moves out in the field, that's strictly base defense behavior.

Mat people like you should stay away from pr.
No offence , go back to vanilla and shoot everything you want.
TK for vehicles.

I've never tk'd for a vehicle, and I don't shoot everything I want. I do shoot everything that presents a threat to the security of a base which only bluefor have reason to be near.

From my point of view, there are a couple of things that WOULD stop me shooting civvies.

-Their spawn time is one of the biggest reasons I'm quick on the trigger. Two whole minutes that squad is without a member and a medic is a really nice deal for a few intel points and a hit to my score. (But as it's always been told to me, it's not about score, it's about how much you help your team.)

-People with civi kits tend to stick realllly close to those with guns, a dangerous thing to do, because I'm not going to hold fire if someone starts shooting, and deviation means I might not hit my target, just everything around it. If you are a civi, and you value your life, don't stand near someone with a gun if there's enemies around.

-Sometimes shooting a civi is ok, I think. It's a confusing issue about having what items out for how long means you're a valid target for who if the stars align on a blue moon. I wouldn't mind some clarification. Far as I understand it, taking out anything but your hands means for 60 seconds you're a valid target. For anyone in anything.

[Spec]

If you are only at the main base and only shoot civilians who run directly towards you, I can see why you do it.

But please understand that the civilian kit has been created to avoid exactly that; they are allowed to get near the base, and if they enter and cause trouble, you can always arrest them - even shoot them with the less lethal (/breaching) shotgun.

Yes, that puts you on a disadvantage, but it is supposed to.

[spawncaptain]

I hope that I'll never be on the same server as you mat. People like you ruin this mod.

Do something DEVs! PR can't be intended to be played like this gu does. Even when doing nothing but walking around with their hands up they are STILL being shot on public servers because they have to wait two damn minutes and people like to be a hole in the arse.

[hiberNative]

I dont know instant death seems a bit harsh. How about you get the exact same damage as the Civi you shoot? So if you do one on accident you can still recover,if you give him a headshot (Which is not very likely to happen if you dont plan killing him imo) you die aswell,seems a bit fairer,everyone can have an accident once in a while.

bad idea. what happens if you throw a bad grenade and the civi dies?

[McBumLuv]

bad idea. what happens if you throw a bad grenade and the civi dies?

3 civi kills in 10 minutes = Court martial ?

[Rudd]

bad idea. what happens if you throw a bad grenade and the civi dies?

it should be something like, "you are allowed 3 civils per 5mins"

if you are killing more than that...you are not taking care.

[Spec]

Well, tbh, then you did a terrible mistake if a civilian died to to a grenade. Grenades in a populated city are always dangerous.

But I see that instant death is too much, and unrealistic. How about +60 seconds for the next and every following spawn plus instant death after 2 civilians within 5 minutes? You could play a gunshot sound during the instant death to make it sound as if the player was simply shot. All this combined with a global announcement that the player killed a civilian and with what weapon, so the admins can see that he did it, and know if it was likely to be a mistake or not.

TriggerHappy1337 [civkill with grenade] Civ001

is likely to be an accident, while

TriggerHappy1337 [civkill with M24] Civ 001
TriggerHappy1337 [civkill with M24] Civ 002

probably isn't.

Edit: Damn Ninjas, they're everywhere.

[Peeta]

Well, tbh, then you did a terrible mistake if a civilian died to to a grenade. Grenades in a populated city are always dangerous.

But I see that instant death is too much, and unrealistic. How about +60 seconds for the next and every following spawn plus instant death after 2 civilians within 5 minutes? You could play a gunshot sound during the instant death to make it sound as if the player was simply shot. All this combined with a global announcement that the player killed a civilian and with what weapon, so the admins can see that he did it, and know if it was likely to be a mistake or not.

TriggerHappy1337 [civkill with grenade] Civ001

is likely to be an accident, while

TriggerHappy1337 [civkill with M24] Civ 001
TriggerHappy1337 [civkill with M24] Civ 002

probably isn't.

Edit: Damn Ninjas, they're everywhere.

A certain amount of civis within a certain amount of time will not work. Whether it is realistic or not, the game is meant to be played THIS way, not THAT way. If instant death doesn't stop civi shooters, then.... they need banned from every PR server. Intentional civi shooters are nothing but trouble.

[hiberNative]

it should be something like, "you are allowed 3 civils per 5mins"

in my opinion, 3 civilians in 5 minutes is a LOT. i wouldn't be able to kill more than 3 in 5 minutes even if i looked for them.

more like 3 civilians during a whole round, or you'll get kicked, just like you get kicked for teamkills.

[Singularity]

I killed one today, accidentally. All my points have been zeroed, and got a -100 ... terrible.