Knives. Do we really need them?

[Qaiex]

Alternate weapon functions like melee attacks are not possible as far as we know in BF2.

What if it was made like the source engine where a melee attack is just a bullet that only travels a certain distance?

[E4$Y]

well, bayonets maybe. But with the engine limitation that we cannot have shooting and knifing on the same weaponslot, would be best to remove it all.

though on INS....can't arrest without. hmmm

Take it from conventional maps and leave it on ins maps?

What's wrong with that?

I say remove it only and ONLY if you really need a slot for something very very usefull and vital. Since the #1 thing you must have is your rifle, but #2 what you must always carry with yourself is a knife (not in every day life on the streets, though it is welcome as long as you don't start killing people).

I mean, if you lack the skill and don't want to risk taking out someone with the knife so no one would hear that and you'd still have the element for surprise for a short while then by all means don't. But don't make it so other people who are able to do so couldn't either.

That's a valuable asset really. Once on ghost train we lost temple (damn brits took it back) and were going for the next flag. They left 1 squad behind. So me and another guy went down and knifed the squad and "dug in". The ones that left didn't know what happened until the flag was lowered and half of our team was already there in defence (much better then trying to break through a bunch of enemies eh?)

Yeah. it's valuable and all, but the way it's used is not too much realistic maybe? It saves me in alot of situations, saved me yesterday 2 times, so i know what you mean. But IMO, it's not needed for anything else than i said before.

[google]

All right, all you people who are saying that you need the knives for essential reasons, I have one thing to say, stop being a lonewolf! It takes 2 or 3 guys to overrun an RP if they're all within 50m of the thing. If you get the same amount of people near a hostile FB, the enemy can't spawn on it. Also, as a squad you do usually have about 5 incendiary grenades.

I always use my knife as an officer. Run out of Pistol ammo in CQB, whip out my knife, and do work.

Because that's exactly the kind of arcady gameplay PR is striving for (hint, that was sarcasm)

The knife IS important. How the hell are you going to kill of a sniper and his spoter?

A: You shoot the sniper. The spoter hears the gunfire and kills you
Alternative: You shoot the sniper. The spoter hears you and turns to fire on you but you kill him too. Now about 2 squads in the area come looking for what they expect a squad behind enemy lines. Wooptydoo. What a great way to die.

B: You knife the sniper/spoter. While over VOIP all he says is "WTF?!?" you kill the other guy. Move on. No one hears you, no one notices you.

Once again, if you aren't a lone wolf, you can shoot the two at the same time with a buddy. Also, if you can't shoot a sniper and spotter with the same mag while within knife range, then you need to work on your shooting.

[ReadMenace]

I love you Google -- the knife is *not* a necessary element of PR.

-REad

[Redamare]

Hmmm Interesting buut ... yea i think its a needed asset .... Even though it would free up a weapon slot for misc weapons such as claymores or something fun along that nature

[Alex6714]

Well going thios route... Why not remove also grenades. They aren´t necesary too, seeing as the main objective isn´t to kill people and it just makes lonewolves better.

Rifles aswell, because you shouldn´t just be shooting poeple, you should be capping flags with teammates and flaking the enemy...




Anyway, is there actually a reason to remove it? I can´t see any?

Note: I almost never use the knife for a few reasons, but that doesn´t mean I think it should go, in a few situations its useful.

[E4$Y]

I'm assuming you meant unrealistic by the fact that people are running at others with their knifes out and killing them, right?

Yup, that's exactly what i meant.

[Arnoldio]

Scenario: A guy is sniping (alone) on a random hill, but at the foot of the hill another squad is ralliying...You come behind the sniper and you find out that you suddenly dont have a knife...

He can shoot, but you cannot...

Knife must stay.

[Spec]

Or you just leave the sniper alone when he's not aware of you.

As I said, I'm pro-knife though. Two reasons: Insurgency and the fact that you should, no matter how unlikely you are to be out of ammo, still be able to have some way of defense.

But don't use it in CQB as serious alternative to shooting; weaken the knife but keep it.

[google]

He can shoot, but you cannot...

Um... why? If your goal is stealth then what's with the obsession of knifing some sniper who has relatively the same chance as detecting you as a normal grunt. If you really want stealth, then just avoid contact all-together. A death, be it a sniper or a grunt, will arouse suspicion.

[E4$Y]

Scenario: A guy is sniping (alone) on a random hill, but at the foot of the hill another squad is ralliying...You come behind the sniper and you find out that you suddenly dont have a knife...

He can shoot, but you cannot...

Knife must stay.

But you have your rifle, so why do you need a knife for? Stealth you say? Well yeah, but i don't think this would happen IRL, so why bother being all stealthy and knife him, why risk being spoted sooner than you can get close enough to stab him when you can unnoticed shot him from safe distance? The knife IS needed, but not for what players are using it now atm.

[Arnoldio]

But you have your rifle, so why do you need a knife for? Stealth you say? Well yeah, but i don't think this would happen IRL, so why bother being all stealthy and knife him, why risk being spoted sooner than you can get close enough to stab him when you can unnoticed shot him from safe distance? The knife IS needed, but not for what players are using it now atm.

There is safe distance only if you enemies are deaf...

And i just posted the scenario as the example...he doesnt need to be a sniper...he can be a random guy overlooking a valley and you just happen to stumble across.

Another thing, this isnt RL, this is PR so i can use my knife for everything i just feel comfy to do with it...even trying to chop down a tree.

And for what is the knife used if not for killing? I guess your answer will be "for taking down fbs and hideouts", well yeah, but remember, you have your rifle, so why do you need a knife for?, you can shoot at the radio from safe distance and it will go down...iand IRL they handle those things differently...

Or is there another way to use the knife?

[Ccharge]

Personely untill i see something uber important the knife stays. Its the only weapon you have left if your outta ammo. Plus it has about a million other uses, also the insurgent ambusher would look silly using a knife when he doesnt have one handy for his grenade traps

Knifes are the essential weapon of any person. Reliable, deadly, and cannot run outta ammo. I personelly have knifed 3 PLA by rushing them when they didn't expect it in the middle of a massive fire fight and killed all 3 without any of them turning a eye.

[Seiran]

It's not like you can put a sidearm instead because that would be unrealistic. Regular soldiers (which is the role we fill in the game) do not carry and are not trained to use handguns, only rifles. That part of training is reserved when you reach the special forces which are not in the game.

I don't know how things are done in the Lithuanian Army, but in the US Army, even regular Soldier's get pistol training, without having to be in SOF to do it. Though you are correct in the saying that not all troops get them, however you would be surprised that the pistol is no longer just reserved for Officer's, Sergeant's, and Pogues.

Now I'm not saying that pistols should be used to replace the knife, was just giving a little background. And I don't have any idea to come up with a substitute.

[E4$Y]

There is safe distance only if you enemies are deaf...

Well that means enemies i face are deaf, because i always find the time to aim and shoot them.

Another thing, this isnt RL, this is PR so i can use my knife for everything i just feel comfy to do with it...even trying to chop down a tree.

Yup, this is PR, but that's exactly why the knife should be removed as pistols were removed from pilot kits. This isn't Project Comfort, and that's why it should be removed imo. For me Javelin would be VERY comfy, but does that mean we need it in game? Ofc no.

And for what is the knife used if not for killing? I guess your answer will be "for taking down fbs and hideouts", well yeah, but remember, you have your rifle, so why do you need a knife for?, you can shoot at the radio from safe distance and it will go down...iand IRL they handle those things differently...

Yes, exactly. You CAN take out FB's with guns or with incendiary grenades.

Or is there another way to use the knife?

The main two thins to do now with them is to kill and to destroy RP's and FB's, but killing is in the first place...and that just looks dumb. Numerous times i saw/heard people doing dumb stuff then complaining about it. And i mean stuff like this:

- Guys, i see a dude lying, i'm gonna knife him.
*Shots fired*
- Oh S*it, he turned back at me and shot me.

So why run there like an idiot when he could have shot him? I guess the knife is not the issue here. The players are. But removing the knife would solve the problem

[Excavus]

The Knife is fine as it is. Do not change it.

Don't fix what isn't broken.

[Celestial1]

Don't fix what isn't broken.

If there is a debate or argument about it, you can usually bet that someone thinks it's broken.



IMO I think that knives are not NECESSARY in anyway, whatsoever. Rallies can be taken down by 2 people in radius, firebases can be changed so that they are destroyed automatically when the enemy gets within 10m, and you can always just avoid actually getting into contact with an enemy instead of playing Sam Fisher and gutting him from behind.


I think, though, that it may be more of a circumstance thing, rather than a blanket implementation. In the case of insurgency, the restrainers shouldn't really be removed unless civilians would be removed, too (which is another subject entirely), so in that case they would definitely stay, whereas AAS teams wouldn't really need the knife for any practical purpose as workarounds are in place or could be made for current uses not-including hand-to hand combat (rally removal radius, implementing a similar but smaller radius for firebases, etc).

And in addition to that, the knife/restrainers could be chosen for certain kits rather than all of them (IE, vehicle kits don't get knives/restrainers, medics don't get knives/restrainers, officers only get knives, etc etc); these would be a little more opinion based as to who should be 'using' hand-to-hand combat on the field, and is a little more arbitrary than just removing them all together.






My opinion: There is no need (keyword) for knives when proper teamwork and strategy is employed. You wouldn't need to worry about knifing an enemy in a CQB situation if you had thrown a grenade in the room he was hiding in, and cleared the room as a team, right?