Project Reality Forums

qsmith wrote:they got a similer set up on the prsp kashan. its kinda fun shooting down the planes in a helo.

I imagine it'd also be fun shooting down helos in a plane.

Speaking of kashan i think the best thing you can do with LB there is get above 1500m and scout for enemy Havoc.
It's quite effective .

Human_001 wrote:Minigun has 4000RPM. G3 is 600RPMx6(one squad)=3600RPM. So rougly its same. If 7 people shoot at it its 4200RPM. At least for about 1 or 2 secnds.


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Knew you were going to say that. The LB carriers 2 miniguns. Thats 2 x3000/4000 rpm.

i dont agree that hueys are now too underpowerd after the patch but i do agree attack hueys are, if it only fits 2 people and is designed for attacking, wouldnt it make more sense to put more armor on it, clearly was way too much before .87 but it is too weak now,,,,, lil birds on the other hand are supposed to be lightly armored and quick but they are not very quick,,,, on another note wtf happened to the lynx, why go through all the work of making it then get rid of it and put it on a map that barely ever gets play (qinling) is it even on that map anymore ? ,,, bring air support back to basrah please !

From my own experience, or so the guy next to me told me, the UH-60 had kevlar lined floors..


Anyways, a quick google found this out :

"Protective armor on the Black Hawk can withstand hits from 23mm shells"

Source: UH-60A Black Hawk

First paragraph, 3rd sentence.


Yes I believe the BH should be able to absorb more hits, but how about making it harder to control like a hydraulics leak or something if taking too many hits? instead of the only 2 options of blowing up or making it out smoking? Adds more realism to it.


And about the LB? screw em, too many fly boys trying to be the hero and end up getting killed outright. plus the LB can destroy the caches...

If a technical gunner manages to accurately hit he LB-the sucker should go down.
Idea of the LB was it to be fast enough to avoid enemy fire, but alot of pilots in PR would forgo the strafing attacks and attempt to hover in place to steady their attacks.


Funny story, one time this LB was flying street level.. my clanmate and I started to unload on it with the shotty(we were playing durka) the sucker blew apart ^_^

Regarding the technical-yes if hit, the occupants should be swiss cheese, but the 7.62 rounds should not outright decommission the suckers. Despite being full of holes, it should still start and run, albeit not perfectly but still runs. Again, add effects like the technical shuts off at times so the player has to crank it again. To imitate battlefield damage causing problems-not perfect but dynamic enough to make it "real".
same goes with any vehicle.

Other than that... KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK GUYS!! loving this game

oh and as someone mentioned before,,, i am willing to bet that 15 rounds of 7.62 in a pickup truck would easily disable it , hell even 5.56 would

Scared_420 wrote:oh and as someone mentioned before,,, i am willing to bet that 15 rounds of 7.62 in a pickup truck would easily disable it , hell even 5.56 would

I'm willing to bet 15rounds of 5.56mm even M855 green tips we use would not disable a truck. Kill the driver yes, but taking out the engine block outright? hell no!
7.62-hell yes (salivates at the thought of an M240b)

Scared_420 wrote:oh and as someone mentioned before,,, i am willing to bet that 15 rounds of 7.62 in a pickup truck would easily disable it , hell even 5.56 would

why? most of them wont hit anything important and only make some holes and nothing more like this, i'm sure it caught far more than 10 rounds and only 1 guy was lightly wounded vid

about heli vs .50 cal
no heli in the world can withstand continuous HMG fire unless all round hit empty transport compartment and just fly away, yes attack helis has lots of features to improve its survivability, double or even triple system reserves, vital parts covered by not very important equipment etc., hell Havoc glass can withstand even KPVT(14,5mm) hits( link to back me up, at 1:20 link) but this doesnt mean that under HMG fire heli crew will hover wondering "where its coming from, oh i see, kill it"
you know, there are cases when plane land with only 1 wing, people surviving headshots etc. but this is not usual thing

possible solution i see is revamp of helis collision meshes, so some parts of helis can take lots of hit with minor damage and vital parts with higher damage, but this is maybe tonns of work, who knows

Take it from the other side. Its just far to easy to take choppers out with .50 cal because the choppers are always so close to eachother. And the .50 cal doesnt partulair has any recoil on this game.

And most times choppers dont even notice that they´re underfire because you dont get any warnings of being underfire.

[R-DEV]LeadMagnet wrote:You are aware that the littlebird is firing 7.62mm? Short of a lucky hit to the gas tank/line you're really reaching here unless you can provide some sources.

Mythbusters tested that gas tank doesnt ignite if you shoot it =P So i guess destroying a car with bullets might require quite many hits, you would need to penetrate some vital parts and even then you would only disable the car instead of making it blow up in flames according to mythbusters =P

I dont know how vulnerable helicopters are but afaik blades are very sensitive ?? 1 big bullet to blade would probably drop whole chopper but dunno?

[R-DEV]Deer wrote:Mythbusters tested that gas tank doesnt ignite if you shoot it =P So i guess destroying a car with bullets might require quite many hits, you would need to penetrate some vital parts and even then you would only disable the car instead of making it blow up in flames according to mythbusters =P

I dont know how vulnerable helicopters are but afaik blades are very sensitive ?? 1 big bullet to blade would probably drop whole chopper but dunno?

I didn't mean the gas tank itself, only that it be punctured. Rounds penetrating the body or deflecting off the denser areas such as the engine block, rims or frame will create sparks providing the source of ignition.

[R-DEV]Deer wrote:
I dont know how vulnerable helicopters are but afaik blades are very sensitive ?? 1 big bullet to blade would probably drop whole chopper but dunno?

The apache, and most Attack helicopters are said to take up to 23mm hits iirc, and if you read the book Apache, written by an Apache pilot/weapons officer, you will read the story of one apache that was shot up so badly iirc it has lost 1 engine and had holes in the rotor blades, yet still flew back to base.


APACHE Helicopter

The Apache has been designed for high survivability in combat. the helicopter can continue fight for a further 30 minutes following impact by 12.7 mm rounds directed from the ground. Some sections of the helicopter, such as the main rotor blades, are also tolerant to hits by 23 mm rounds. The crew stations are fitted with Kevlar seats. The cockpits are protected by boron armour shielding rated to provide protection against 12.7 mm rounds. The four blades of the main rotor can be folded or removed for transportation, and are specified to be tolerant to 23 mm shell impact.

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-64 Apache

The Apache has a full range of aircraft survivability equipment and has the ability to withstand hits from rounds up to 23MM in critical areas.

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-1W Super Cobra

Armored cockpit can withstand small arms fire, and composite blades and tailboom able to withstand damage from 23-mm cannon hits.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mi28/

A new design of all plastic rotor blades, which can sustain hits from 30mm shells, has been installed on the Night Havoc Mi-28N helicopter.

The Mi-28 has a fully armoured cabin, including the windshield, which withstands impact by 7.62mm and 12.7mm bullets and 20mm shell fragments.

The littlebird is an old unarmored scoutchopper and belongs to the same generation as the cobra. The Blackhawk and the apache is of a newer generation and have increased survivability. Both are able to withstand 12.7mm hits to the main rotor.

The problem is more of a mapper problem as technicals are something we have created to give insurgents a weapon platform and transport but the actual use IRL is very rare. PR gives us the impression that there is a technical for every humwee, but actual reports of technicals being used in iraq are almost none.

The only thing that bugs me with the littlebird is that the guns do not converge. Anybody has a source on how it is IRL and at what range they converge?

I was playing PRSP the other day and I was able to shoot down a Littebird with a US Automatic Machine gunner kit :S

Yeah, playing PRSP flying an attack LB on Jabal and I was shot down by 2 enemy riflemen :s. OK so that was a bit dumb on my part, but it highlights the issue. And I know my view on technical survivability vs. LB miniguns is just an opinion, but it doesn't make sense in my mind that a technical can take so much punishment after seeing videos of what miniguns do to cars, barrels, bits of wood etc

And think about this - even though the 7.62 rounds might not penetrate the engine block itself, they would shred the electricals, making it impossible for the engine to run. Also the cooling system and radiator are fragile and would quickly be destroyed by gunfire.

+1 on the gun convergence.

Stu.

LB cockpit is open so it is possible to get shot out or a lucky hit to hit the rotating blades at the motor, or say rip into the controls making it impossible to fly further.

rampo93(FIN) wrote:20 minigun rounds equal the same as 20 rounds off a M4 or a M16 since they both use the same rounds, does that seem to make sense?

And 15 rounds dropping a blackhawk seems completely realistic since 50.cals well... they are supposed to penetrate armour and just a few good hits to a engine should take down any chopper.

Oh and about the littlebirds i think it seems completelty real since the LBs dont seem to be the thugh heavy assault vehicle, guess thats why the attack helicopter version of the littlebirds is supposed to operate at night when the small copter is hard to spot

M4 uses 5.56x45mm NATO LB uses 7.62 mm

Well thermis can you please make the LBs go faster, 400km is really really slow, the techs can actually keep up with the LBs. If they were to go faster , say around 650 to 700 km , it would even things out. Make the Killer bee have a strong sting and alot of agility

Totally unrealistic speed for this aircraft, it can't even go over 300km/h in real life.

How can a small aircraft like the LB survive more than 6-7 shots from a 50 cal? I don't think its very practical. I think the real problem is that they are forced into a role they aren't fit to do. I would love to see more of the Apache in game

Protective armor on the Black Hawk can withstand hits from 23mm shells

=Protective armor protecting the pilots, except for rounds coming through the glass.
When helicopter manufacturers say that their product can withstand 12.7 mm rounds, in fact they mean that it will survive few 12.7 mm rounds unless they hit some vulnerable spot. 12.7 mm rounds are definitely capable of taking down even an attack chopper (but it's most likely not going to happen because the pilot will get the hell out of there before he goes down) while 20mm rounds from something like zsu-23-4 shilka will literally tear it to shreds, no matter what the manufacturer says. Helicopter armor is not there to keep the machne in direct fire, it's there to help it survive and escape if things go wrong. Just look at those hellfires under the wings, might be interesting to see how many shots they would take before something happens... Ground vehicles can afford additional armor protection for their missiles, helicopters can't. The main reason why we see choppers going down in PR is that they fly relatively low and slow. So instead of scoring lucky hits from time to time, the technicals are like on a firing range.

I also do not think attacking a technical in a littlebird is a good idea unless you know exactly where he is and have the element of surprise. Technical is a vehicle with a powerful AA weapon, he knows where the LB is all the time, can hide, cover and has a 360 degrees firing arc.

Defense Update News Analysis: Deadly Scourge of the US Helicopter Pilots in Iraq - by David Eshel

...According to U.S. Army General Simmons, the U.S. Army has lost 29 helicopters to enemy fire since March 2003. The majority of the firefights involve machine-gun and heavy-machine-gun fire, categorized as up to 23 mm...
...U.S. military helicopter pilots in Iraq tried flying low and fast, hoping to elude heat-seeking missiles fired by insurgents. But the insurgents responded with heavy weapons such as machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades, and the loss rate of American helicopters soared...
...U.S. military helicopters are equipped with long-range sensors and devices to jam radar and infrared technology, but they have proven vulnerable to intense gunfire, as well as rocket-propelled grenades. In one new tactic aimed at helicopters, groups of insurgents have waited in places where helicopters frequently fly and then attacked with a combination of small arms, rocket-propelled grenades, The "swarming" strategy may have played a role in some of the recent crashes...

What might be worth looking into is reinforcing tougness in some parts of the choppers while making other parts weaker so that that it's more of a gamble for both the pilot and the insurgents, as it's in real life.

HardCandy wrote:M4 uses 5.56x45mm NATO LB uses 7.62 mm

Oh youre right i allways though they use the 5.56 i looked it up just now. ops:
Thanks for the headsup, but the AK-47s and G3s use the 7.62 it still doesnt seem to make sense for them to take out cars whit 20 shots