Project Reality Forums

malv wrote: For a game that does many things rights, to have one really just awful feature ruin the experience is a real shame.

Pretty sure most of us have one thing that we hate/don't like about PR.

The deviation does not bother me. I hate the nerfed rally points, it makes rounds last waaaay too long.

The DEV's, for the most part, are not interested in modifying things because people do not like them. They have stated on numerous occasions that they are making a game that THEY want to play.

I also want to add the fact that the US Rifleman kit is so utterly pathetic. I was playing a little while ago and I burst fired into an enemies chest from lousy 6 feet away landing all shots and low and behold, he didn't go down. Of course I die to his auto spray WHILE he is moving around. Unrealistic nonsense.

There needs to be deviation penalty when an enemy is hit or injured. I mean, if the devs are going to shoot for realism they need to go all the way. You can't allow people to go instaprone, do pop-up shots, or this whip around and return fire after being shot with any sort of reliability. It feels like 80% of all deaths in this game are complete BS:

-Exploding assets
-Hitting an enemy first but not killing them with the shot, only to die in their return fire.
-Death to diving enemies.
-Carefully delaying a shot only to have it fly off at a 70 degree angle for some mysterious reason. (After playing long enough I can probably say it's a bug related to the deviation not resetting)
-Sliding down mountains
-Dying from spawning at a camped FOB

I'm sure there's more. This game has far too many strange quirks and having played since around ~.4 I still can't figure out how to reliably kill an enemy that I have the definite tactical advantage on. This isn't coming from someone that does poorly either, it comes from someone who consistently has a positive KD ratio and drops out of games due to pure frustration with the combat dynamics. In too many situations doing the exact opposite of what a real soldier would do in real life works.

malv wrote:I also want to add the fact that the US Rifleman kit is so utterly pathetic. I was playing a little while ago and I burst fired into an enemies chest from lousy 6 feet away landing all shots and low and behold, he didn't go down. Of course I die to his auto spray WHILE he is moving around. Unrealistic nonsense.

thats not "unrealistic" so to say as in the devs didnt put that in. he should have been dead. what you encountered was just hit box issues. hell i've seen it in the original FH1942, i'd headshot a guy at point blank and he'd bleed, but he wasnt even scratched. (regular BF1942 not so much since there was no real visual effect to indicate a hit or not most of the time) the kit isn't pathetic, its either the guy you were shooting or your connection that was pathetic.

as for your theory on the bug which the deviation does not reset, it happened to me once while using AR. the best countermeasure is to not run into a position and dive into your prone. as that seems to be the cause might be confusion between movement/stances. just run to your position, release all other keys, and then prone as fast as you can. if it happens to you just get up then back down.

as for sliding down mountains. last time i checked if you didn't watch your step and fell off a mountain, one does usually die

malv wrote:I also want to add the fact that the US Rifleman kit is so utterly pathetic. I was playing a little while ago and I burst fired into an enemies chest from lousy 6 feet away landing all shots and low and behold, he didn't go down. Of course I die to his auto spray WHILE he is moving around. Unrealistic nonsense.

There needs to be deviation penalty when an enemy is hit or injured. I mean, if the devs are going to shoot for realism they need to go all the way. You can't allow people to go instaprone, do pop-up shots, or this whip around and return fire after being shot with any sort of reliability. It feels like 80% of all deaths in this game are complete BS:

1. if you did land all shots as you say and he didn't die, that's because the shots didn't register (bf2 problem, not PR problem) .

instaprone - gone (when you go prone your deviation goes sky high)
Pop-up shots - hardcoded
"whip around" - fast mouse movement increases deviation
Increase deviation when shot - hardcoded.

I love staring through the scope, looking the enemy, looking at me, and the seconds of tension of who's going to pull the trigger first.

A deviation indicator - how real is that? We dont need it. People will be looking at the indicator and not the battlefield.

I've not said this yet, DEV's great maps. Video issues are gone along with my anti-aliasing.

_casualtyUR wrote: A deviation indicator - how real is that?

More real than what we have now.

What about a real time sway during the deviation cool down. Sway stops and the shot is dead on.

So you can get 30 kills out of a 30 round mag ? Do you know how many bullets soldiers put out before they can claim a kill irl ? I dont think every rifle should be a sniper rifle. Just put out rounds you will get kills eventually.

'= wrote:H[=Rissien;1327462']About the suppression comment mentioned in the first page. It is one thing trainied for by modern forces. It is also common sense. The more you keep the enemies head is kept down the less fire directed back at you. While attending the bsg course we used supression a lot to cover friendly units as they pushed forward. Its not like in Vietnam where troops just fired off into the jungle, we even have weapons like the m249 saw to put rounds down range in a wall of lead to keep the enemy behind cover.

When it comes to accurate fire you usually take your time to fire anyways. Like the saying we had to repeat in a school. Front sight, front sight, slack, pause, squeeze. Trigger control, natural sway, breath, etc must be taken into account. Of course once rounds start flying past your head most of it goes out the window but the fundimentals still apply.
In PR I use my weapon in two ways for distance combat. Either I fire supressivly emtying my mags with single shots fairlly accurately keeping the enemy pinned or I holdd fire those extra few seconds for accurate shots.

We are not trained to shoot to kill though. We are trained to shoot to stop the target. Center mass is the largest part of the body and of course the easiest to hit. Wounding an enemy is actually more detrimental to opposing forces than outright killing them. You kill an opponent and its just one down. You wound them and you pull more off the line as they bring their wounded comrade back to safety and medical attention.

I don't know what kinda **** like that they are teaching in the United States Navy, "We are not trained to shoot to kill though. We are trained to shoot to stop the target. " But, I do know in my beloved United States Marine Corps, I am trained to SHOOT TO KILL With accurate fire, generally speaking that one, two, or three shots to the engine block, ya know that thing ya call a brain box, noggin, Brain Housing Group, dome-piece. Yeah, we shoot center of mass as well, and that goes right into the pumper or the lungs, so we can bait more cats in and create more casualties but our over-all objective unless ordered otherwise is to KILL

So when I run down a hill, prone out bring up my M16A4 with ACOG RCO and put that little red chevron or my 6-800 meter bar at the shoulders where the cross meets the head. I expect to hit right where the 'T' boxes up so I can hit that cat right in his 'T' box.
These weapons are far to inaccurate the utilization of your deviation system is bunk from a user of many years with the M16/M4 platform I can run 75-100 yards full combat load drop to my face pull my weapon to my shoulder get that good cheek weld and eye relief and let loose on a dude between 20-350 yards away and know I will hit where I put my Front sight tip, Reticule, chevron, dot. What have you. I could see the utilization of the deviation system at longer ranges and hell I'll take it as a 'Wind Check' or some trash like that, I will buy that, if you're going to add something like that to the game, then allow us to dial our Iron sights, or use our ACOGS the way they were meant to be used.

I also need to note that the weapons need a little bit more '***' to them, it's retardedly aggravating when taking up an M40A3 (Best frigging sniper rifle on the planet OORAH) my target is an enemy officer 750 yards out, hold fire for 10 seconds for deviation settling (Why this shit is factored in with a weapon with a bipod for any purpose other than wind call is beyond me) settle my cross hairs and mil-hash from my S/B Scout Sniper Day Scope let loose that vicious 7.62x54 FMJ round clean into his giant Arab Schnozz and not kill him... That shit makes me rage like an animal.

Kami.exe wrote: [snip]
I can run 75-100 yards full combat load drop to my face pull my weapon to my shoulder get that good cheek weld and eye relief and let loose on a dude between 20-350 yards away
[snip]
7.62x54 FMJ

The question is, how long does that all take you?

and im assuming thats a typo?

Here's a hint.

there is minimal deviation difference between crouched and prone.

the action of going prone will rocket your deviation up.

If your engangin an enemy, dont dive to the floor, crouch, pause, and engage.

gazzthompson wrote:The question is, how long does that all take you?

and im assuming thats a typo?

For me, being trained for that sorta shit, knowing my weapon, practicing dives and shit like that. it takes me about half a second to get the proper cheek weld. eye relief is actually irrelevant unless utilizing traditional Stoner/Colt/FN platform Iron sights. About another half second to second to get full focus chevron, target, kill. And there is the magical boom headshot. So, all in all.

My proposal is like in all other games deviation is based upon stance. As stance = stability.

Standing you should have the most deviation, kneeling, a lot less, and prone, minimal, and when using a bipod supported weapon barely any deviation other than vertical. I'll take vertical deviation from heaving breaths for the USA, British, well actually anyone other than the USMC. We're trained to counter that shit with a simple inhale-exhale-hold-fire-rinse-repeat fire mantra.

Kami.exe wrote:For me, being trained for that sorta shit, knowing my weapon, practicing dives and shit like that. it takes me about half a second to get the proper cheek weld. eye relief is actually irrelevant unless utilizing traditional Stoner/Colt/FN platform Iron sights. About another half second to second to get full focus chevron, target, kill. And there is the magical boom headshot. So, all in all.

so one second from diving to the ground in full combat gear to firing a shot and hitting the target in the head ?

Range is also important , what range can you pull of this one second drive and insta headhot? 50m? 100m?

malv wrote:Please fix the fluffing deviation system. This whole counting bullmanure needs to go. Please, give some feedback on how accurate the shot is going to be like gun sway or some sort of visual indicator. Seriously, counting before shooting is absolutely unrealistic and fluffing lame. Not to mention it takes forever to steady an aim, and people can shift momentum in this game instantly. Moving the mouse throws off the aim, and without being able to predict the character based upon continuity in the momentum profile (+network lag). makes hitting a moving target with a regular rifle a stupidly challenging task. Also, the deviation up close takes too ridiculously long to steady for many of the guns; burst fire shots go frigging everywhere up close.

I mean the deviation system really just murders this game. They've confused just plain awful controls with realism. They really should just reintroduce the accuracy indicator in absence of being able to add gun sway. Anything feels more realistic and appropriate than counting.

You have a problem with deviation? All vBF2/COD pilgrims need to get used to how PR works.


If your "Counting", your doing it wrong. You're playing Like this:

1. Find enemy.
2. Prone
3. Wait for deviation to settle
4. Die.
5. Respawn

You're thinking like this:

1. Enemy in my sight
2. Fire, and miss

You SHOULD be playing like this:

1. Find enemy.
2. Immediate cover
3. Use teamwork with friendly infantry / vehicles around you to suppress and out maneuver enemy.
4. Destroy enemy, and continue with objectives.

You SHOULD be thinking like this:

1. Enemy in my sight
2. Have I just sprinted around the corner? wait to ensure an accurate shot
3. Have I been waiting for the enemy to come to me like I should? Fire, and kill.




In real life, you are NOT accurate after running around with heavy gear, and aiming down a sight to shoot something. Go play ARMA (w/ ace, I might add. or PRA2 when it comes out) and try sprinting for 20 seconds, then aim. Fire right away. You'll have a very large spread. Do the same thing in PR. Now do the same thing in real life. They all do the exact same thing. However, PR can't tell you where your aimpoint is, since the engine isn't as enhanced as other game engines. So, you have to approximate.

gazzthompson wrote:so one second from diving to the ground in full combat gear to firing a shot and hitting the target in the head ?

Range is also important , what range can you pull of this one second drive and insta headhot? 50m? 100m?

I can pull it up to 350 yards away utilizing the M16A4 Service rifle with Iron Sights or an ACOG RCO.

But I take it you have never been in combat before have you?

Kami.exe wrote:I can pull it up to 350 yards away utilizing the M16A4 Service rifle with Iron Sights or an ACOG RCO.

But I take it you have never been in combat before have you?

I have not.

Whats the time frame on this 350 yard heatshot? from when you start to go prone to when you are capable of firing?

What exactly do you/did you do in the USMC? Sounds like your a sniper, infantryman and marksmanship instructor all combined into one.

Sounds like a troll to me. Don't fall for it boys and girls

Oddsodz wrote:Sounds like a troll to me. Don't fall for it boys and girls

The more I read his posts the more I believe it..its just too subtle.

On topic I see no problem with deviation other than how effective prone diving is. I was killed on Gaza peninsula by an instaproning HAMAS sniper 10m away. Elmo147*AUS* his name was, he even said it was total bull over mumble. Proves that prone diving isn't truly emitted from the game.

Just await PR:ArmA2. Try instaproning in that and see what happens