Project Reality Forums

Smiley:

I find it hard to play without Mumble, you know all this but anyway for the readers that don't:

Good:
Talk direct to asset drivers pilots, Heli drop us at A1k1 drop the crate behind the wall, Possible FOB in A2 maybe AA.
Tank quick enemies at 120° we will walk behind you - don't go backwards.
Co ordinate with other SL's (to great effect once with Gazzthompson for example) my squad takes the middle, your squad West flank and Redwater on the East, once we're in position let's go. Or this is squad 5 we need your medic, not forgetting ofc the ease to find the wounded man in a heap of bodies.

Yes this can all be typed but I am lazy or a slow typer, plus as you know I am too stupid to play and trawl through all the text messages at the same time.

I enjoy the teamwork of PR much more than the insular squad battles.

The bad side is the unnecessary nonsense, but that is down to us all to keep it to a minimum, SL's using their markers and if a CO is present he can relieve alot of comms from the SL channel.

Pr seems so disjointed to me without at least the SL's on it.

Smiley didn't you guys try out a mumble night recently? I posted on your site asking if you were doing anymore, but no responses.

Maybe what is required are more event nights!

anyone remember the iGi mumble nights?

bloody awesome gameplay and use of mumble, got alot of people to try and love it.

if the iGi server hadn't had terminal technical issues I am convinced I'd still be organising such events.

A good replacement was the TG password nights, but I've not seen that for ages.

I'd love a server to step up and organise a night that has guarenteed admins, a well loved map list and a password.

Gaffertape wrote:Yes, PMC was created after RT closed down to fill the void.

I'm not sure what your point is?

My point was that Tartantyco had no right to ask me to substantiate my claims when he had no intention of doing so himself.

In any case I have no intention of carrying this on, as I have previously said, I entered this thread with only good intentions and I don't believe that the first reply I got was particularly welcoming.

Tartan mentioned exclusion and it's this kind reaction to people you may not know well or who's opinions may differ slightly from you own( not yours personally) that breeds more exclusion.
I only post in the public section occasionally and when I do I sense a slight tone of hostility in some peoples posts. Anyone and everyone is entitled to disagree with me but I would appreciate it if they did it in a more polite grown up way.

smiley wrote:My point was that Tartantyco had no right to ask me to substantiate my claims when he had no intention of doing so himself.

In any case I have no intention of carrying this on, as I have previously said, I entered this thread with only good intentions and I don't believe that the first reply I got was particularly welcoming.

Tartan mentioned exclusion and it's this kind reaction to people you may not know well or who's opinions may differ slightly from you own( not yours personally) that breeds more exclusion.
I only post in the public section occasionally and when I do I sense a slight tone of hostility in some peoples posts. Anyone and everyone is entitled to disagree with me but I would appreciate it if they did it in a more polite grown up way.

Maby you should throw a event smiley

The last one i remember was allright

smiley wrote:It's the main reason I jumped in this thread because despite what Mr tartantyco perceives I have a vested interest in trying to continue to improve gameplay on our server, and I don't think it's as simple as just saying "everyone get on mumble now!"

But you would be wrong. You are more than welcome to your opinion, but you must be willing to concede that it is incorrect, something that the last two pages of this thread have shown.

I will repeat myself when i say that mumble as a tool is a great thing, but surely as it's user based then individual people will affect it's performance.

Yes, exactly the same as TS/Vent. You're not making a point here.

Here's an offer to all you mumblers. If you want to spread it's use then come on to our server and show the public in large how effective it is and help us to promote it.

How are we going to show people how effective it is? They don't have mumble, there's no mumble enclave that just pounces on servers and fills them up(Which would be counter-productive anyway), servers need to promote mumble use to non-users and provide benefits for using it and/or penalties for not using it. I've used mumble since before we got PRMumble and I've personally been involved in all ways of mumble promotion, from going on random servers and talking about it while playing with a squad, being part of a focused promotion attempt at specific servers(iGi, RT before mumble promotion), and administrating RT after it started promoting mumble. I can tell you from experience that the only way to gain quick and constant mumble saturation is by having servers promote it and be biased towards mumble users(As in kick non-mumblers when the server is full).

I think that actively doing this and getting to know other server providers and talking to them and helping them work it out would be far more beneficial than running an ad campaign and also would be directly beneficial to the PR community as a whole.

When did anyone ever say anything to the contrary? That would be part of the promotion...

@ Tartan that's about all I expected from you.

You did read all the posts in this thread substantiating all my points, right?

smiley wrote:Maybe you guys need to really understand why the vast majority of people don't like/use mumble, rather than keep going on about how great it is. Then perhaps this information could be used to improve the system. We all use computers to play this mod and saying that it's too complicated for some people just doesn't cut it for me.

Agree.

I personally think it's a great tool in principle but whenever I've given it a go I find that it's the people who use it not mumble itself that puts me off.

Also agree, but the two team system helps this a lot.

I'm a grown man and no offence to anyone,but I don't want to hear some whiny voice constantly telling me things I don't need to know. I also, like a lot of people use ventrilo to talk to clanmates and can get along just fine using ingame text to talk to others.

I have also found that on TG, the SL channel can get quite hectic from time to time. However, my clan uses TS3, and although we are significantly smaller than UKWF, I think that we manage just fine using both, it just takes a little effort. Even when we are the only 6 guys on Mumble, it is still useful for the positional audio, and doesn't take much extra effort to get used to talking through 2 channels, I can even do Voip, TS and Mumble all in one, but it does get a little confusing from time to time

I also believe that seasoned players can work out just fine what's needed where and who's dying where just by reading the map and acting accordingly.

I agree, but it's not the seasoned players who we want to attract. Obviously, PR needs to keep it's seasoned players on and shouldn't do anything to throw them, but I would say that maybe a lot of players just simply don't know/can't be bothered with Mumble, and don't realise its true potential and helpfulness when trying to play PR.

I also hate elitism, but whenever I ask people whether or not they know about mumble, a lot of them are misinformed, and when I tell them about that, the answer often is "REALLY?". If we can just get people to know more about it, might help an awful lot.

[R-CON]Rudd wrote:Maybe what is required are more event nights!

anyone remember the iGi mumble nights?

bloody awesome gameplay and use of mumble, got alot of people to try and love it.

if the iGi server hadn't had terminal technical issues I am convinced I'd still be organising such events.

A good replacement was the TG password nights, but I've not seen that for ages.

I'd love a server to step up and organise a night that has guarenteed admins, a well loved map list and a password.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IM TRYING TO DO!

The main reason why people don't use mumble is that the people just don't use mumble.

You just can't get the real mumble experience with only a few mumblers on a full server. The people try it a few times and doesn't touch it again because they couldn't see any use in it without a full mumble channel.

AlexanderBond006 wrote:Examples where the changes are less felt are scout / sniper squads

That's not exactly the case, if the sniper/scout SL is in the SL mumble channel he can relay intel to the other SLs.

Mj Pain wrote:Yes, it´s like when they invented the telephone...
"This is useless i can´t call anyone with this"

That right there is pretty much the best analogy for this, I would say.

As for why PR is better with mumble than without, I guess I'll take a stab at it

Because text chat is limiting. You are speaking to everyone, or possibly no one. By which I mean the intended recipient of your message might not be looking. Or they might be looking, but are unable to respond. Or the message might get lost in the crowd. Or they might be unable to respond because there are enemies close by and they can't type.

It's also limiting in the sense that it takes a great deal of time to actually converse (time to type messages) and in the sense that you can often just get things across clearer by speaking it than you can typing it.

Therefore any standardized voice programme that allows voice communication in such a scalable fashion (e.g. you can talk to the blue guy next to you, or a SL half way acrosst he map) is very valuable.

You can talk to blue guys next to you, you can break your squad into fire teams and not clutter comms, you can talk with other SLs and medics can use it to quickly identify people who need reviving, and instruct them what to do once they are up (especially useful when trying to heal blue guys).

All in all, the sort of teamwork it allows for is at another level of awesome

[R-CON]Rudd wrote:Maybe what is required are more event nights!

anyone remember the iGi mumble nights?

bloody awesome gameplay and use of mumble, got alot of people to try and love it.

if the iGi server hadn't had terminal technical issues I am convinced I'd still be organising such events.

A good replacement was the TG password nights, but I've not seen that for ages.

I'd love a server to step up and organise a night that has guarenteed admins, a well loved map list and a password.

Bring the players and you can use the UKWF server for it. We tried a mumble event a few weeks ago but not many people showed up. As I offered a few posts back,come and work with us and we'll do our best to make it happen.

@ jonny as witty as you may think your reply was why are you trying to bait me?
If you wish to discuss mumble then fine but please try and talk to me in a sensible fashion.
I am here trying to offer my server and any help I can give and all I'm getting for my troubles are people spoiling for a fight.

How about we discuss the positives I have said instead of nitpicking and derailing.

Good points Smiley, the TG mumble thread is very good to seeing what people don't like about Mumble.

Attracting new mumble users ... I have been trying out lots of servers since becoming homeless after RT's closure, and I was shocked to see how many people don't use even VOIP. I even got very impolitely kicked as I wasn't reading the text messages (lost the habit with mumble). Not much hope that 'those' kind of players are going to bother with it.

There is certainly lots of mumble fans around, but is there enough desire to ensure a euro mumble server stays active for a month with all the boring seeding that it needs?

smiley wrote:Bring the players and you can use the UKWF server for it. We tried a mumble event a few weeks ago but not many people showed up. As I offered a few posts back,come and work with us and we'll do our best to make it happen.

If you want to have a mumble event just set a date, keep it public, make posts on various forums about it, then kick non-mumblers and advertise mumble on the server during the event(Before and after would also help). That's how you do a mumble event.

@ jonny as witty as you may think your reply was why are you trying to bait me?
If you wish to discuss mumble then fine but please try and talk to me in a sensible fashion.
I am here trying to offer my server and any help I can give and all I'm getting for my troubles are people spoiling for a fight.

How about we discuss the positives I have said instead of nitpicking and derailing.

You need to stop your passive-aggressive ****. You've made assertions and when called out on them act like you've just been molested by a priest. Either back your statements up or stop crying about people calling you out. Seriously.

PLODDITHANLEY wrote:There is certainly lots of mumble fans around, but is there enough desire to ensure a euro mumble server stays active for a month with all the boring seeding that it needs?

You always need seeding dude. Any server that is consistently populated is seeded.

In all honesty I doubt the majority of PR players know what mumble is or at least what it does. The only reason Mumble is a useful tool in my opinion is SL intercommunication, sure you can type it chat but on must pub servers people are too lazy/dumb to bother passing any intel in chat. In mumble it makes it so easy for Inter-squad teamwork which is awesome. I pretty much only play with my clan or in mumble, anything else is just frustrating.

just going to leave this here, nostalgia attack I'm sure you understand....we loved you iGi server...we loved you so damn much 'cries'

PLODDITHANLEY wrote:Good points Smiley, the TG mumble thread is very good to seeing what people don't like about Mumble.

Attracting new mumble users ... I have been trying out lots of servers since becoming homeless after RT's closure, and I was shocked to see how many people don't use even VOIP. I even got very impolitely kicked as I wasn't reading the text messages (lost the habit with mumble). Not much hope that 'those' kind of players are going to bother with it.

There is certainly lots of mumble fans around, but is there enough desire to ensure a euro mumble server stays active for a month with all the boring seeding that it needs?

Agreed Ploddit but here's where I'm confused. According to Tartan any server that promotes mumble has a large user base so all you have to do is promote it and hey presto you get a large user base right? So where's the problem?

Again according to him it's down to the server owners to do this right?
I have already said that if people want to help then UKWF will actively promote mumble usage

It's all very well putting the onus on us to do the work but you have to remember that we already have vent/teamspeak and have comms with other SLs and because of that the benefits of mumble are more for the public than the clan members and as such people get lazy as I've already said.

I really don't see how asking for some support from the community is such a bad thing as we are prepared to do our bit and once again I'm saying that we do want to help but maybe tartan can answer that one as it seems he has all the answers or maybe he just isn't interested in any help from me or my clan I just can't work it out.

smiley wrote:Agreed Ploddit but here's where I'm confused. According to Tartan any server that promotes mumble has a large user base so all you have to do is promote it and hey presto you get a large user base right? So where's the problem?

The problem is where servers don't advertise mumble...

Again according to him it's down to the server owners to do this right?
I have already said that if people want to help then UKWF will actively promote mumble usage

Do this:
Promote Mumble with admin messages on UKWF.
Kick non-mumblers when the server is full.
Advertise the fact that you do this on the PR forums, TG, etc.
???
Profit.

I will come to help seed and play on the server.

It's all very well putting the onus on us to do the work but you have to remember that we already have vent/teamspeak and have comms with other SLs and because of that the benefits of mumble are more for the public than the clan members and as such people get lazy as I've already said.

Well, it is your server and so the ability to enact anything on that server lies with you. I have already explained in detail why individuals going on servers and promoting mumble doesn't work, and so it is up to server admins.

I really don't see how asking for some support from the community is such a bad thing as we are prepared to do our bit and once again I'm saying that we do want to help but maybe tartan can answer that one as it seems he has all the answers or maybe he just isn't interested in any help from me or my clan I just can't work it out.

Asking for support from the community is not a bad thing. Acting like a drama-queen because someone countered your points is. Seperate the two instead of continuing to act as if I said the former instead of the latter.

Tartantyco wrote:

[

You need to stop your passive-aggressive ****. You've made assertions and when called out on them act like you've just been molested by a priest. Either back your statements up or stop crying about people calling you out. Seriously.

Tartan just go away will you and stop trolling me, ever since you came into this thread you've done nothing but try and pick a fight.
I'm sick and tired of your attitude when I'm trying to help out. Nothing I have said should have been taken in the way that you did.


This isn't a classroom this is a forum open for discussion, you have done little to no discussing and a lot of criticising start being productive and contribute or just go away


Stop telling me to back my statements up as I have said on multiple times that that they are my f**king opinions of which I believe I still am allowed to have here. I am not living in Tartans fantasy nazi land where you are god and get to tell everyone and anyone what they can or cannot do, grow the f**k up and stop arguing like a little child and start trying to understand another's point of view.

I am done talking to you, thanks for spoiling this thread you are all I detest about the internet and more. All you have wanted from the start is an argument, you have no interest whatsoever in discussing anything with me so please go back to whatever hole you came from and leave me be.