Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2010-05-16 17:26**

Good idea but people are still going to kill the pilot no matter what if people shoot at civies they will shot at pilots

Posted: **2010-05-16 19:39**

Nemus wrote:So i believe this kind of operations in game must be decided from the players and not forced for a ticket or whatever reward except the succes' feeling for a well done job.

That's what PR is all about!

Deadpool2894 wrote:Good idea but people are still going to kill the pilot no matter what if people shoot at civies they will shot at pilots

I wouldn't. As a suggestion came up, you can no.1 = kill the pilot, make the oposing team lose 5 tickets. Or no.2 = stay close to that pilot to get tickets/FOB intel (and THEN kill him IF you SEE a rescue party coming).

Posted: **2010-05-17 09:34**

I completely disagree with this idea as it would encourage pilots to run around acting as civilian informants, which the insurgents certainly wouldn't tolerate, and I am certain that in any serious invasion by US forces, the defending forces in any conventional conflict probably wouldn't either.

Posted: **2010-05-17 09:55**

1) This is dumb
2) How often do you survive your plane/helo crash/shot down anyway?
3) You're a pilot and I don't like you already. You ignore my calls for CAS, drop my squad in the wrong place, or crash us, and have friendly fired me when I was on a hot streak in a Tank several times. I'm not going to save you.
4) If you've been shot down, or crashed, then the other pilot is probably better than you, or you suck, and shouldn't be flying. Also, your helicopter won't spawn for another 10 minutes anyway, and your apache or jet for another 20. IF we rescued you, it would probably take longer than all of that, so you'd lose your jet. You might as well just suicide and read a book until it's back.
5) If I've now been forced to drop everything and save you, because you are suddenly worth 10 tickets, or whatever, then I am going to be very upset at the DEV's, and not play anymore. You can't force teamwork on people.
6) You can't force teamwork on people.
7) If I'm on the other team, and I see you get shot down next to me, I'm going to shoot you anyway. You will tell your team where I am, or I will have to walk you back 2 kilometers to my base, for nothing. There is literally no incentive to me that I can think of keeping you alive for. Short of porn.

Hell, if you are shot down next to me and I'm on your team, I'll probably shoot you anyway so I don't have to hear you complain about how important you are, and how crucial it is for me to get you back to base.
9) This is dumb. You can't force teamwork on people.

I understand, IRL, Pilots have some sort of mystique around them that gives you the notion that an army would drop everything to capture one, and that the other army would drop everything to save one. A wounded infantryman on a city street that needs to be evacuated by helicopter is just as critical as a downed pilot 200 miles behind enemy lines. They each will get equal attention.

In the Gulf War, when pilots were shot down and captured, they stayed in prison until it was over, and they were negotiated for release. They never launched in daring rescue attempts. It's not worth losing guys over.

YOU CAN'T FORCE TEAMWORK ON PEOPLE.

Posted: **2010-05-17 10:03**

think more about bonuses for getting back to main alive, and less about penalties for those that prevent you getting back to main alive.

my 2 cents.

Posted: **2010-05-17 14:29**

Fess|3-5| wrote:1) This is dumb

That's not a argument. Perhaps you are dumb?

Fess|3-5| wrote:2) How often do you survive your plane/helo crash/shot down anyway?

I have. Quite a few times. I'm guessing here, but surviving a plane/helicopter crash is more probable IRL than in PR.

Fess|3-5| wrote:3) You're a pilot and I don't like you already. You ignore my calls for CAS, drop my squad in the wrong place, or crash us, and have friendly fired me when I was on a hot streak in a Tank several times. I'm not going to save you.

Then don't. I however know a good pilot when I see one, and getting him back in action ASAP is a priority. There are pilots who by themselves pretty much can change a battle to your benefit. I've seen it countless times.

Fess|3-5| wrote:4) If you've been shot down, or crashed, then the other pilot is probably better than you, or you suck, and shouldn't be flying. Also, your helicopter won't spawn for another 10 minutes anyway, and your apache or jet for another 20. IF we rescued you, it would probably take longer than all of that, so you'd lose your jet. You might as well just suicide and read a book until it's back.

Number 1 reason a helicopter crashes in PR? Hot coordinates. I'm thinking 9/10 times I die while being transport is a squadleader hellbent on getting right on top of the action. I can't always know why he want's to go where he does, but AA close to that position is a safe bet.

I'd like to see a reduced spawntimer on air vehicles if no pilots die. Gives you incentive.

Fess|3-5| wrote:5) If I've now been forced to drop everything and save you, because you are suddenly worth 10 tickets, or whatever, then I am going to be very upset at the DEV's, and not play anymore. You can't force teamwork on people.

You are right. You can't force it. But you can encourage it. If saving a pilot is a chore to you, don't do it. If I happen to be a squadleader with a competent squad, I will consider saving a pilot if there is more to it than the risk of losing 1 ticket.

Fess|3-5| wrote:6) You can't force teamwork on people.

Deja Vu.

Fess|3-5| wrote:7) If I'm on the other team, and I see you get shot down next to me, I'm going to shoot you anyway. You will tell your team where I am, or I will have to walk you back 2 kilometers to my base, for nothing. There is literally no incentive to me that I can think of keeping you alive for. Short of porn.

Which is why we want ROE for pilots. If you loose points, perhaps even die (simulate getting kicked out of the army for shooting unarmed combatants) and add spawntime you might think twice about killing pilots. But if you knife a pilot you instead recive points, get reduced spawntime next time or gain a ticket you'll think twice about just shooting him in the head from 200 meters distance. Instead you want to hunt him down and capture him.

Fess|3-5| wrote: Hell, if you are shot down next to me and I'm on your team, I'll probably shoot you anyway so I don't have to hear you complain about how important you are, and how crucial it is for me to get you back to base.

Taking what I've suggested into play, you'd hopefully get kicked for that kind of stuff. Teamkilling because you don't think other players are doing anything that directly benefit you. Good stuff.

Fess|3-5| wrote:9) This is dumb. You can't force teamwork on people.

Again, you are repeating yourself and that is not a argument. Are you dumb?

Fess|3-5| wrote:I understand, IRL, Pilots have some sort of mystique around them that gives you the notion that an army would drop everything to capture one, and that the other army would drop everything to save one. A wounded infantryman on a city street that needs to be evacuated by helicopter is just as critical as a downed pilot 200 miles behind enemy lines. They each will get equal attention.

So sending a chopper to rescue an infantery man is okay but dispatching a couple of guys (say 3-6) is dumb?

Fess|3-5| wrote:In the Gulf War, when pilots were shot down and captured, they stayed in prison until it was over, and they were negotiated for release. They never launched in daring rescue attempts. It's not worth losing guys over.

Because the pilots were taken into prisons perhaps? That might be heavily defended? Are you really suggesting that rescue operations have never been performed where a soldier is captured but there is a good chances of getting him and everyone in the resque party back safe?

Fess|3-5| wrote:YOU CAN'T FORCE TEAMWORK ON PEOPLE.

It seems you can't.

Posted: **2010-05-17 14:45**

Fess|3-5| wrote:1)YOU CAN'T FORCE TEAMWORK ON PEOPLE.

Completely agree. Thats why i spend more time playing ArmA then PR, because the teamwork in ArmA is real teamwork, not fake forced teamwork, imo.

Posted: **2010-05-17 16:44**

AaronFraher wrote:Completely agree. Thats why i spend more time playing ArmA then PR, because the teamwork in ArmA is real teamwork, not fake forced teamwork, imo.

You talking about ARMA 1 or 2? In my experience, ARMA 2 multiplayer is more lonewolf one-man-army (and everybody bunches up eventually, but in my experience, PR gets a better teamwork. In ARMA 2, all you gotta do is stand up and say "LET's WORK TOGETHER!" and you got it!)

Fess|3-5| wrote:1) This is dumb
Why?
2) How often do you survive your plane/helo crash/shot down anyway?
That's why he's worth a lot of important intel for the enemy.
3) You're a pilot and I don't like you already. You ignore my calls for CAS, drop my squad in the wrong place, or crash us, and have friendly fired me when I was on a hot streak in a Tank several times. I'm not going to save you.
Too bad for you, CAS has saved me several times.
4) If you've been shot down, or crashed, then the other pilot is probably better than you, or you suck, and shouldn't be flying. Also, your helicopter won't spawn for another 10 minutes anyway, and your apache or jet for another 20. IF we rescued you, it would probably take longer than all of that, so you'd lose your jet. You might as well just suicide and read a book until it's back.
No, not necessarilly. If a Cobra owns the MEC team for half an hour and gets shot down, what makes him a bad pilot?
5) If I've now been forced to drop everything and save you, because you are suddenly worth 10 tickets, or whatever
Leave it for the people that like it.
, then I am going to be very upset at the DEV's, and not play anymore.
Go ahead, servers are normally full anyways.
You can't force teamwork on people.
Every PR player knows that. A SQUAD LEADER, though, can.
6) You can't force teamwork on people.
Then you shouldn't be playing PR.
7) If I'm on the other team, and I see you get shot down next to me, I'm going to shoot you anyway. You will tell your team where I am, or I will have to walk you back 2 kilometers to my base, for nothing. There is literally no incentive to me that I can think of keeping you alive for. Short of porn.
You get intel for having him next to you. That's something that was being discussed on the thread.
Hell, if you are shot down next to me and I'm on your team, I'll probably shoot you anyway so I don't have to hear you complain about how important you are, and how crucial it is for me to get you back to base.
(Opposing team 1-0 Your team)
9) This is dumb. You can't force teamwork on people.
If you don't have an argument, don't pretend like you have one. It makes you sound uninformed or, forgive me, stupid (note the word is being used in the literal meaning, NOT swearing at you).

--Stopped reading from here--
I understand, IRL, Pilots have some sort of mystique around them that gives you the notion that an army would drop everything to capture one, and that the other army would drop everything to save one. A wounded infantryman on a city street that needs to be evacuated by helicopter is just as critical as a downed pilot 200 miles behind enemy lines. They each will get equal attention.

In the Gulf War, when pilots were shot down and captured, they stayed in prison until it was over, and they were negotiated for release. They never launched in daring rescue attempts. It's not worth losing guys over.

YOU CAN'T FORCE TEAMWORK ON PEOPLE.

Answers in red.

Posted: **2010-05-17 16:53**

I like rudds idea for a bonus for returning to base. If you get succesfully recued and return to base your team benefits. But if youdie then your team gets nothing. This would make enemy's WANT to kill you in order to stop you however. Instead of any sort of capture. Maybe if they capture you, they should get the bonus?

Posted: **2010-05-17 22:26**

Amen on Rudd's idea. I like it =)

@ Fess|3-5| STOP PLAYING PR THEN

Posted: **2010-05-17 23:27**

All previous arguments of mine aside, I'm going to break this down even simpler.

Let's assume we're playing Kashan Desert. You have 32 guys, max on your team. 1 is commander, so 31 "grunts". On any given map with air assets, assume anywhere from 3 to 6 are pilots. That leaves you with 25 potential riflemen. Factor in other vehicles that require multiple crewmen, and you're realistically only going to have maybe 1 dedicated infantry squad, with maybe 4 other lost souls. And don't act like you haven't played in a pub where this wasn't the case. Maybe on a good day you'll have two infantry squads, but that's unlikely. Snipers/spotters don't count, they don't take flags. Now the blackhawk was going on a leet resupply mission to a sniper watching South Village, dropped him his crate, but got shot down coming back. The pilot in all his leetness manages to save the bird, and autorotate into a safe landing. He is now in E 8. Friendly infantry are in the bunker complex, being heroes. Suddenly you have this pilot, in all his sense of self-righteousness, saying "BLACK HAWK DOWN E 8. NEED RESCUE!!!!!!!!!". Why should we commit half of our infantry assets to go rescue you, or send a lone bradley?

If we get a bonus for rescuing you, it will most likely be negated by the time it takes to go save you, or tactical positioning we lose pulling guys off the front line, or god forbid, the guys we lose trying to save you.
If we gain nothing, but being 'Captured' gets the other team a bonus, then you should suicide. If you get a big spawn delay, I'm sorry, but it's the team I'm worried about. Remember, your helo won't respawn for 10 minutes anyway, so you're going to be sitting at main anyway if we rescue you.

Tactical Gamer LOVES to run scenarios in PR. Pitch a pilot down mission to them, and I GUARANTEE you will get at least 50 people who support you.

I hope this makes my point clearer to you guys. I hope I'm not too "stupid" or "dumb" to get through your heads.

Posted: **2010-05-18 01:53**

-Prowler- wrote:I like rudds idea for a bonus for returning to base. If you get succesfully recued and return to base your team benefits. But if youdie then your team gets nothing. This would make enemy's WANT to kill you in order to stop you however. Instead of any sort of capture. Maybe if they capture you, they should get the bonus?

But wouldn't that be exploitable? (ie. you get bonus everytime you RTB as a pilot?)

Posted: **2010-05-18 04:39**

So much qq'ing =(

This:

Make pilots count as civilians when they are downed. They must be on the ground for at least 1 minute.
Upon "arresting" (knifing/melee) the pilot,the downed pilot's team loses 5 tickets.
The pilot only counts as "innocent" if he has been out of a vehicle for 1 minute, similar to civilians on insurgency.
This only works for conventional factions. Militia, Taliban, and Insurgents can kill pilots without ROE.
The pilot kit would be essentially worth 5 tickets.

Posted: **2010-05-18 05:12**

I had a great idea to add but now i lost it........
.
anyways
Maybe only one pilot kit able to be requested from each chopper? Unless it's an attack chopper or bomber

To stop "kit stealing," this would be where designated squads come in to play.

Not sure if this would be codable

Posted: **2010-05-18 07:19**

goguapsy wrote:You talking about ARMA 1 or 2? In my experience, ARMA 2 multiplayer is more lonewolf one-man-army (and everybody bunches up eventually, but in my experience, PR gets a better teamwork. In ARMA 2, all you gotta do is stand up and say "LET's WORK TOGETHER!" and you got it!)

ArmA 2 has great teamwork, atleast on TG... but back on topic i agree with Rudd's statement, where he says to focus more on gain of getting the pilot back to base, than penalty of letting the pilot get away.

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