Project Reality Forums

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:Ask Thermis, I'm pretty sure he knows what US Army soldiers do...hint hint,

Yes, we do spend considerable time putting rounds down range, but even after hundreds of thousands of round being put down range automatic fire is still hard to control. I have fired my weapon of burst once in my entire career, almost 7 years, and that was after I was instructed to do so because we needed to waste the rest of our ammo on the range.

The only individual weapons that are fired regularly on automatic are M249 and M240s, and those are only fired in short bursts and normally with the bipod resting on something. I've fired a M240 from a standing position, and that thing is hard enough to hold by itself let alone try and control recoil. The M249 is easily fired in standing and kneeling positions without the bipod, but its crazy inaccurate at range its purely designed to provide suppressive fire not laser accurate lethal shots. Where as the M240 deployed correctly and with a good gunner can reach out and kill you with automatic fire at pretty good ranges.

cyberzomby wrote:I dont know. If its deployed its something else. But I can imagine the kick of a weapon also forces the thing left or right. Its not just in a strict upwards motion. At least thats what I imagine because I never fired a weapon.

and it does, not alot but that can be changed. The problem with deviation in this case is that instead of just having to realign your sight and fire, you have to wait. Realisticaly at this point after a shot your muscles are tensed, you are firing again immediately leaving no time for you to start swaying and thus weapon sway should have little to no effect.

for all weapons i feel deviation from firing needs to be really toned down or removed and recoil increased. Currently i feel the recoil is a bit too easy to deal with, while the deviation is ridiculous. firing automatic unsupported at 75-100m i shouldnt have to worry about hitting the target on my buddy's lane if it were on a range shoot.

I agree. Bullet sway should not be affecting firing, if that is in fact deviation's true intent. If i already have to deal with recoil, i should already be sighted in, so as such all i should HAVE to do is re-align my sights and shoot, not have to deal with me getting ready to sight in.

In all actuality this suggestion is one of the few that make sense. I've also just now learned (off topic) that i have forgotten how to type with my left thumb XD

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:Yes, we do spend considerable time putting rounds down range, but even after hundreds of thousands of round being put down range automatic fire is still hard to control. I have fired my weapon of burst once in my entire career, almost 7 years, and that was after I was instructed to do so because we needed to waste the rest of our ammo on the range.

The only individual weapons that are fired regularly on automatic are M249 and M240s, and those are only fired in short bursts and normally with the bipod resting on something. I've fired a M240 from a standing position, and that thing is hard enough to hold by itself let alone try and control recoil. The M249 is easily fired in standing and kneeling positions without the bipod, but its crazy inaccurate at range its purely designed to provide suppressive fire not laser accurate lethal shots. Where as the M240 deployed correctly and with a good gunner can reach out and kill you with automatic fire at pretty good ranges.

Quite interesting! I didn't know that... Well in America's Army you just use single-fire on the training so suppose you are right.


But so... does that mean that deviation should or not exist along with recoil when firing?

goguapsy wrote:Quite interesting! I didn't know that... Well in America's Army you just use single-fire on the training so suppose you are right.


But so... does that mean that deviation should or not exist along with recoil when firing?

I think hes saying that its not very realistic to shoot fast and expect pin point hits at 200+ meters distance, which most people here don't get. They expect to shoot 4 rounds every second and of course hit everything as well. I'm just expecting to see the recoil raised a bit but the "deviation" after deploying being taken away.
Now that he said, we should add more recoil the the saw, actually all AR.

You cannot fire accurately when firing fast only because of the recoil. You fire once, recoil throws your gun in some direction, while its there, you fire again and it throws it in another direction. That is what happens in RL and thats why you miss everything in RL doing so.

Yet in PR there is an imaginary sway added to firing wich is a bit too much with such deviation increase if full auto. It should only be the recoil screwing your aim, not deviation. And thats the point of deploying weapon and only 3 kits in the game have deployed mode. Reduce recoil for more accurate repetitive /auto firing, not to reduce recoil but deviation is in many cases even worse (at least it feels like it that its more accurate to just fire the marksman undeployed fast than deployed fast, wich is nonsense).

And Phatcap, good luck hittin anything with MG3 undeployed. Guns in game have good recoil.

ChizNizzle wrote:Yet in PR there is an imaginary sway added to firing wich is a bit too much with such deviation increase if full auto. It should only be the recoil screwing your aim, not deviation. And thats the point of deploying weapon and only 3 kits in the game have deployed mode. Reduce recoil for more accurate repetitive /auto firing, not to reduce recoil but deviation is in many cases even worse (at least it feels like it that its more accurate to just fire the marksman undeployed fast than deployed fast, wich is nonsense).

This is because in PR there are things that the engine cannot replicate that will effect your shot placement in real life. Like wind, breathing, trigger squeeze, correct sight picture, correct zero on your weapon sight, barrel temperature, ambient temperature, ammo temperature, ect ect ect/

There are tons of factors that effect where a bullet is actually going to go that have to be accounted for when trying to shoot a weapon accurately, this is why PR has the deveation system since we can't replicate all real world aspects.

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:This is because in PR there are things that the engine cannot replicate that will effect your shot placement in real life. Like wind, breathing, trigger squeeze, correct sight picture, correct zero on your weapon sight, barrel temperature, ambient temperature, ammo temperature, ect ect ect/

There are tons of factors that effect where a bullet is actually going to go that have to be accounted for when trying to shoot a weapon accurately, this is why PR has the deveation system since we can't replicate all real world aspects.

What i am saying and what you are saying are different things.

I know that there is many factors that deviate a bullet in real life, and thats why i said DECREASE not ELIMINATE deviation. While firing that is. Now it feels like the faster you shoot the more the wind blows, you inhale and exhale inbetween each shot and so on. Its just far overdone no matter what you say. And shile stationary that is.

Deviation for snipers is ok as you have to aim precisely and account many things in after each precise shot.

No matter what weapon in whatever mode, they should have the same (or well, representing the real life counterparts) deviation while firing because after you fire the first shot on full auto recoil takes care of the shots that miss and point of deployed mode is to rest your weapon efficiently and minimize recoil for less spread.

Deviation increase when moving is good, deviation increase when moving deployed is also good as you have to reposition the weapon not just move it around, deviation reduction while waiting to shoot precisely is good.

Deviation increase while firing is too much. If there was no recoil on guns then yeah, deviation would be needed like there is no sway. But recoil thanks god is allready in and deviation doesnt need to be exaggerated as it is now.

personaly i think the devation and recoil is the best it has ever been and ive been playing since this mod was first released...

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:This is because in PR there are things that the engine cannot replicate that will effect your shot placement in real life. Like wind, breathing, trigger squeeze, correct sight picture, correct zero on your weapon sight, barrel temperature, ambient temperature, ammo temperature, ect ect ect/

There are tons of factors that effect where a bullet is actually going to go that have to be accounted for when trying to shoot a weapon accurately, this is why PR has the deveation system since we can't replicate all real world aspects.

this is true, however all the factors you've noted are constants if considering how often they change. They will cause your rounds to be out of place but would be consistently within the same area instead of sending one bullet to the far right, then the next to far left. ALL rounds fired unless you have a horribly deformed bullet would having applied these factors would still land within a reasonable distance to the main point of impact. The problem with deviation isnt that it throws my bullets out of place, it's that it throws them in random directions. IRL i can compensate my point of aim for any of these factors

We dont want pin point accuracy. we just want deviation from firing rounds removed, moving should still create lots of deviation but firing should not. I've been on the range too firing my C7 full automatic unsupported, and at 75 m i did not have to worry about hitting the target in the next lane. the problem we're asking to be fixed isn't the lack of accuracy, but the ridiculous increase of inaccuracy of subsequent shots. most of us have requested an INCREASE of recoil and a decrease or removal of deviation from firing shots. with the increased recoil it should be a reasonable balance while making it easier to handle

There should be a little deviation even when firing, to scale things down and balance the gameplay, not completely removed.

I dont know about increasing recoil... just try to get it as close to the real thing as possible.

joethepro36 wrote:Agree with chiz, firing rapid accurate shots is a lot more difficult than taking extremely careful shots or simply spraying for supression. I find firefights degenerate into a "I'm going to wait for deviation then do single careful shots every few seconds". I'd find it more realistic if we were encouraged to fire faster shots to enourage supressive fire. It's particulary grating when you put suppressive fire down only for it to miss all around the target while the target calmly sits still waiting for deviation. On occassion you'll hit the guy but seldom in the head while he just insta-headshots you.

Essentially I don't like the way most firefights involve very limited amounts of ammunition fired.

I generally share your whishes and cocerns to a T. I would like to see a more realistic approach to firefights too, with more ammo being used. The problem is the players. They worry more about getting kills than staying alife. IRL you are not going to take carefull aim while bullets are hitting all around you with you in the open. That being said surpressive fire works though, depending on the distance and the squad who makes use of it has a better KD ratio.

firing rapid accurate shots is a lot more difficult than taking extremely careful shots or simply spraying for supression.

If thats difficult don't do it. Deviation simulates shouldering your rifle and makin sure you lookin down the sights right.

If you're gettin killed by players who wait for their deviation to hit its minimum then your gonna die, but you can kill him before that if you shoot realisticly, AR gunners are for suppression, Just crouch aim and strat shooting 1 shot at a time and you're suppresing him and wounding him.

The way the qouted comment above me reads, "I saw him and I started shooting really fast and he killed me."

I don't wanna be an *** but I just made a thread about how to shoot accuratley without waiting 5 seconds for devation. Read it if it helps.

Unless im reading the thread wrong,(My apologies if I am) it just seems like a few people are having trouble shooting because they spray fire

Today i experienced the problem. I run around a corner, see a MEC ccs 30m away, so i crouch, wait a second just to settle down a bit before i take shots.

What happens is, he ignores me, prones, starts to shoot another guy, stands up, walks towards me and shoots me while standing. All this time i was shooting at him. The magic uber increasing deviation costed me a life and 10 rounds.

Implementing my idea is simple so to speak, doesnt change long range shots as it still increases with each shot so those shots would take time to aim, but enables reasonable accurate spuression fire and CQB and more realistic feel as it actually is realistic, and people would get punished (most of the time) popping out of cover as they do now to take out non-lmg supressers. People would get used to be careful as now you can run over the street and hope that the more they shoot, more they miss, wich makes no sense again.

SharpShooter13971 wrote:firing rapid accurate shots is a lot more difficult than taking extremely careful shots or simply spraying for supression.

If thats difficult don't do it. Deviation simulates shouldering your rifle and makin sure you lookin down the sights right.

If you're gettin killed by players who wait for their deviation to hit its minimum then your gonna die, but you can kill him before that if you shoot realisticly, AR gunners are for suppression, Just crouch aim and strat shooting 1 shot at a time and you're suppresing him and wounding him.

The way the qouted comment above me reads, "I saw him and I started shooting really fast and he killed me."

I don't wanna be an *** but I just made a thread about how to shoot accuratley without waiting 5 seconds for devation. Read it if it helps.

Unless im reading the thread wrong,(My apologies if I am) it just seems like a few people are having trouble shooting because they spray fire

no sharp, they arnt just spraying. what we're talking about is how even when sighted in with the weapon shouldered we cant fire realistically at higher rates. let me put it this way, as a CF soldier every soldier in PR would fail PWT2 (all PR soldiers would also fail PWT3 but that cant be helped if deviation exists at all). Firing at high rates should not punish a person by making his shots go crazy, all rounds should still land near his crossheir where it points (assuming he settled the initial 5 seconds) at that point he rounds would be affected only by recoil because at high rates of fire, there is no time for your arms to start swaying, and no time for your breathing to make a huge difference. weapon sway is a result of your muscles twitching or getting tired from attempting to hold a steady position. as such while firing you are NOT attempting to hold it still, your arms are in motion fighting the recoil, thus your muscles dont get as tired quickly and you dont sway.

dont immediately assume that people are just spraying when we complain about this. some of us happen to be real soldiers and have REAL experience with rifles. We know the devs have MAs but as far as things like how a weapon handles, getting a second opinion is helpful since it's different for everyone. we aren't suggesting that deviation is broken, we just think it needs further refinement, just as everything that exists always needs.

There should be little increase to represent fatigue and not being completely still while firing the whole clip.

If i remember correctly, these kind of features are ment to make firefights on both large scale and squad based last longer. If we have no deviation in between shots, its easier to kill fast and accurately, wich decreases one of the most awsome things in PR, firefights.

I think I understand now