Limit altitude for Helicopters

[killonsight95]

simple enough, stay very low when doing CAS and those idiots flying high won't see you untill you get reported in after doing CAS that's when they'll dive to go for you while your already half way back to main? simples, also AA almost always keep their eyes up in the sky not on the ridgelines.

[Zoddom]

I dont matter how i avaid being killed by diving helicopters.
Its about the availabilty and the role of CAS. its just not the way it should be and its stupid.
its for the sake of gameplay, jsut like any other suggestion.

[Alex6714]

you guys just dont get that this is not the way its meant to be.
btw range of a tow is 3700m.
btw i didnt say i want this limit for jets too, never.
btw in vanilla its implemented, just the other way round.
btw @ scharf:
if you didnt notice, thats exactly what i want to stop with this suggestion.

Everything in view distance in vanilla isnt a threat though..

Its just pointless saying ranges. TOW 3700m sure, standard SA7 around 5000m sure, hellfire 8000m. This is all pointless unless it gets proportionally put in game, which it is not. As you can clearly see you should be able to stay out of the range of small SAMs or guns and kill them. You do not have this range advantage in game and nothing will be right until you do. Until then, what we have now does the job.

In the end, whats wrong with helicopters killing each other? Its not great how its done, but I see no reason why these things can?t happen in real life. Iirc an Israeli Apache downed a Cessna with just a hellfire once...

Though I think the future is in maps with asymmetrical balance where only one side has attack helicopters.

[Ninja2dan]

Ok, so my understanding is that Zoddom and any supporters of the suggestion are asking that the max service ceiling of helicopters be reduced in order to keep pilots closer to the action instead of flying at high altitudes?

People also seem to be complaining that helicopter pilots are spending too much time flying at higher altitudes in order to ambush and hunt opposing helicopters, which is also something being discussed in the topic suggesting removal of helicopter AAM's.


In regards to the max service ceiling, I don't see any need to limit it beyond what it is right now. As others have noted, the problem isn't with the aircraft but with the players themselves. Real helicopters have a service ceiling comparable to some fixed-wing aircraft, an example being the AH-64 having a ceiling greater than 20,000 feet (well over 6km). But I'm not going to talk about real-world limits, because they mean jack in PR.

After talking about the issue with the PR staff, my opinion is that there is no reason to limit altitudes. As of now, regardless of how badass your PC is and how high your settings are, the max view distance is 1km. And as such, both ground-based anti-air weapon platforms and aircraft-based weapon systems have a maximum engagement range also of 1km. In other words, SAM and helicopter combat is "balanced".

The reason why pilots might choose to operate above those altitudes is when they want to avoid contact with ground-based opposition. If you're flying from Point A to Point B and want to skip enemy weapons, you fly high enough to be well outside their range. This doesn't mean the helicopters can "cheat", because the helicopters will be unable to see and target the ground units as well. If you can see him, he can see you. And if you can see each other, you can shoot each other. Neither has a range advantage over the other.



As for the problem with helicopter pilots buzzing around at 2km hunting for other helicopters, that's a problem with the players themselves or a lack of sufficient air superiority aircraft. Even if helicopters had their AAM's removed, they can still engage each other with their ATGM's and cannons (more difficult, but still possible). I've seen some players so stubborn that they'd probably crack open their cockpit and throw rocks at each other if that was a last option.

The primary purpose of AAM's on rotor-wing aircraft is for defense, not offense. You are supposed to use those AAM's as a last resort if an opposing helicopter or jet gets too close, you are NOT supposed to go out hunting for them like a moron.

If necessary, mappers might want to consider adding at least 1 air superiority aircraft per map to any and all maps that include aircraft (with the exception of light supply helicopters only). These aircraft would be armed with AAM's only and their primary role is to maintain clear skies from high altitudes.


Also consider that the helicopter-vs-helicopter hunting tactic is a player-based problem, not a PR problem. Even if you had altitude limits of 500m for helicopters, some of those retard players would still be out trying to hunt each other down. It's the same reason why we constantly see APC/IFV crews trying to act like MBT's and go hunting for tanks and other APC's, which is totally opposite of their intended roles.

The same saying keeps popping up: "Players are hardcoded".

[Brainlaag]

The same saying keeps popping up: "Players are hardcoded".

Thank you Ninja for pointing it finally out (as DEV) *teardrops*

[DeltaFart]

Well I'd say ninja cleared that oen
By the way who was the first to say players are hard coded, I remember during VIP mod times people would usually say the issue is behind the keyboard haha
No heght limit for me though, but the removal of an unrelealistic mounting of AAM should help improve this situation

[Zoddom]

hmm i agree with you ninja, that adding air superiority fighters beside attack helicopters is a better solution, i kind of agreed already to this during the discussion. i myself would then lower the helicopter amount to one per team too, to avoid badass CAS squad doing some AA "tactics".
but i dont see how hardcoded players are a good enough reason to deny my suggestion.
imo just because the players are hardcoded you have to add some limits to maintain control over them.
in theory, if it was possible to add a 1300m limit ONLY for helicopters, that would be enough to hide from AA and any other visual contact but wouldnt be enough to fly high enough to be invisible for other Helicopters which are flying lower. so if youre a skilled pilot youd see the enemy coming from above, not as it is now where he can come from straight above and let rain down hell on you.

[Ninja2dan]

Think of it this way: If the enemy helicopter pilot is being a ****** and flying at 3km waiting to ambush your own helicopter, then he isn't doing his own job of providing proper ground support.

In such a scenario, without AAM's he's still going to have a small advantage over you but not nearly the capabilities they have now. So while you're down on the deck laying waste to his troops and armor, that poor ******* is up smelling his farts waiting for you to show up. Chances are that by the time he does take you down, if he even manages that in the first place, you've already laid waste to a dozen of his tanks and troops. So either way, you win, right?

And I'm guessing that the same moron, once he has shot you down (again, IF he can at all), the dumbass is probably going to go straight back up into the clouds to try camping the skies and wait for you to come back out. Then the whole cycle repeats.


By throwing in air superiority aircraft to that party, you're staying fairly low to the deck and using your own AA assets as cover. While on the other hand, that gimp is up there in the atmosphere begging your jets to shoot him down like a retarded quail.

[Zoddom]

okay i agree.
u simply didnt want to have just one suggested solution discussioned to get ingame.
with removed AA and added fighter jets we should quite have a better gameplay.
just that the altitude limit for helicopters is then defined by the fighter pilot
can have a lock.

although i still think it would be better to prevent helis from going 2km high with a more certain method