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Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-05 19:16
by Bringerof_D
SGT.Ice wrote:I dont see the whole "pointless" part of increasing it to 10 just because of the size of some vehicle. Squads could easily roll in vehicles and by air. Some squads might prefer it and as before its totally possible to lock the squad to 6. Why should we be constrained because not everyone wants more than 6 because of vehicles. Infantry walk everywhere. Choppers or any land vehicle alike in general are usually for transporting small groups around during the middle of a fight. If you need a 2nd one to grab the other half of your squad that's doable. Even if it requires more cooperation.
In closing I think we should have atleast 8 if not 10-12 as the squad cap. 8's just fine. That's enough for 4 tanks in a squad or an actual squad size of infantry. More people in a squad for some may cause problems but also as mentioned will also give the SL more options and maneuverability.
The Officer kit really needs to be renamed to Squad Leader as well.
I agree with Ice here, why limit the people who can, when there is a perfectly good solution for the people who can't?
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-06 14:51
by Robert-The-Bruce
I hope we have now established that having the possibility of bigger squads does not force you to have your squad in a size you don't want, since you can always lock it at a point of your choosing.
Does anyone disagree with that statement?
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 11:27
by Cassius
killonsight95 wrote:the problem with such large squads is that once the SQ limit is increased it becomes very hard to manage in general terms. I get the idea behind the large SQ's with tanks etc. but you have to remember a lot of server have the asset rule, what if let's say a finnish person and his friend wish to use the tanks but an english tank SQ has taken all the tanks with their big *** 16 man tank SQ. Not only this but what if that Squad leader is an *** and doesn't use the tanks to support the inf etc.
having SQ's larger than 10 will not help the teamwork gameplay that the DEVs are aiming for afaik, sure in events it would be possible and more feaible however the average pubby game shouldn't have more than 8 or 10 per SQ.
If a squad becomes "hard to manage" it is because of single squadmembers not being teamplayers. Just get rid of the dead weight. But yes, personally I would prefer to have more squads avaiable instead. That way you could merge squad, by having another squad subordinate to your command and it would still have its own squadleader, who can set markers and such. If both would be possible, that would be even more awesome.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 11:50
by Tarranauha200
Good idea, but wont work whitout good co-oordination via mumble and commander chat.
It only works in best public servers like NwA, TG, PRTA.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 11:54
by Marcio
Robert-The-Bruce wrote:I hope we have now established that having the possibility of bigger squads does not force you to have your squad in a size you don't want, since you can always lock it at a point of your choosing.
Does anyone disagree with that statement?
No, is correct.
Depending on the objective/map, you need not have 10 SMs...
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 12:12
by killonsight95
no, because having 10 SM's allows assets to be compeltely controlled by a clan etc. when some others might want fun and use those assets as well. It's not about the person leading it is about all the others enjoyment, let's say a clan wants to take all the tanks on kashan then with this they can, which imo is bad because it limits other players enjoyment of the game.
What you can do with 10 people can be done with 8, in fact having 10 people will hinder you more in-game than 8 will. I support 8 man SQ's, this allows for real mech inf and still a controllable amount of players in the squad, also it limits asset hogging on a server.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 13:55
by Lugi
@up
wut? Whats stopping this 10 man clan for making 2 tank squads? And believe me, the 10 man squad is still controlable.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 14:14
by killonsight95
it's an extra hinderance for them which will encourage them not to do it. Everyone should have a chance to play with the assets and a clan hogging them all the time isn't going to help PR.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 18:18
by SGT.Ice
From what i've seen a clan usually does hog them all the time.
On a side note 10 members in a squad does not hinder a good squad leader, it will take time to adjust and may not always be easy with guys that are new or a ton of pubbers in the squad but it's doable, as stated many times you can always lock the squad. But some clans or just pubbers in general may want that 10 man squad because they have a lot of friends or people they want in just ONE squad.
Speaking of which, the individual servers can always put a limit on how many assets may be used per squad, TADA.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 19:35
by Jaymz
If you look internationally, 8 is a very common and standard infantry section/squad size irl (British, Australian, Canadian etc). This was a factor in the decision as well.
Note how most people suggesting more are from the US, because the US Army is typically 9 and the Marines are 13+.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 19:42
by Scot
killonsight95 wrote:10.... pointless and useless in PR where the maxium number in a transport is 8 players, SQ's will just become split up and won't be able to work correctly. 10 man squads.... sure, for events and maybe PRT but certainly not for public play where players will quickly become split up and the fact that many public players are un organised as it is.
Or it encourages better transport squads...
Leading 8 is not that hard, I don't imagine leading 10 would be that taxing. Just need to be a controlling SL.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 20:31
by lucky.BOY
'[R-COM wrote:Scot;1607834']Just need to be a controlling SL.
Quoted for true
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-08 20:34
by Robert-The-Bruce
[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:If you look internationally, 8 is a very common and standard infantry section/squad size irl (British, Australian, Canadian etc).
As far as I understand it it depends alot in what role you are. Iirc in mechanized/armoured infantry formations the vehicle and the infantry riding inside fight as a single unit with a single SL in command of both.
So thats 10 men for a Canadian LAV III squad(2 crewmen, 8 dismounts OR 3 crewmen 7 dismounts, because the SL can choose to dismount as well), 10 men for a British Warrior squad(3 crewmen 7 dismounts).
(I am of course aware that it doesnt work out that way in-game because of seating limitations. Still I don't see a reason to limit SL's to having 8 man Squads. American Militaries have 9 and 13 men, Russia has 9 men as well iirc, as well as any russian trained/inspired)
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-09 04:16
by Jaymz
Robert-The-Bruce wrote:As far as I understand it it depends alot in what role you are. Iirc in mechanized/armoured infantry formations the vehicle and the infantry riding inside fight as a single unit with a single SL in command of both.
Exactly, and 8 allows you to do this in-game.
I'm aware of the other points raised as well but still think that 8 is the best standard for us to use.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-09 07:24
by Dev1200
Yongy wrote:Isn't it hard-coded?
I think I've seen this come up before...
This personally made me lol.
You can see 10 man squads once
developers have tested the system over 9000 times with larger maps. You can't have 128 (or larger) servers without 128 (or larger) layer maps. Or else it's just derp and doesn't work.
We also need to find a way to increase the number of squads. 9x10 is only 90 (derp) if every single person fills the squads.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-09 08:52
by Snazz
I recall Soppa posting that the amount of squads can be increased however it compromises the default VOIP system.
If everyone on every server used Mumble instead it'd probably be alright to ditch the default VOIP, but that'd require full Mumble integration.
Re: When can we see 10 man squads?
Posted: 2011-06-09 15:56
by Lugi
Dev1200 wrote:You can see 10 man squads once developers have tested the system over 9000 times with larger maps. You can't have 128 (or larger) servers without 128 (or larger) layer maps. Or else it's just derp and doesn't work..
Wow, so you haven't seen any game on 128.