256 player servers.. or not

[Snazz]

Can't please everyone of course, there are people with extremely different views. With a current range of player numbers from 1 to 512 we'll never get a unified consensus on the 'right' amount.

The community has always been split on various issues, with the ultimate decisions up to the lead developers.

More data and experience is needed before practicality can be established.

[ytman]

128 Players is astounding enough... 200... amazing.

If we really get past the 100 marker the squad would need to be replaced with a platoon XD.

Such changes will require us as a community to completely revamp our current understanding of the game.... I'm salivating about the idea of 100+ players!

[Spec]

The only way this 200 or even 500 player deal would possibly work out (ignoring the fact that the server'd never be full or all other servers would die a painful death) properly is with gameplay being slowed down a lot to make tactics even worth thinking about instead of random rushing being the only thing possible to do, only on 4x4km maps (and even then 500 is still too much, but 100-200 might be possible), and, most importantly, with proper communication channels. The squad system simply wouldn't do. There'd need to be fireteams, squads and platoons. Complete with proper command structure. You can only listen to so many people at a time while still understanding what everyone is saying and doing. For me, 8 people are the maximum. Thus, I suggest:
Fireteam of four with their own (mumble or such) channel
Squad leader in charge of a few fireteams, own squad leader to fireteam leader channel
Platoon leader in charge of a few squads, own platoon leader to squad leader channel
Commander in charge of all platoons, own commander to platoon leader channel

Any less than that and someone has to listen to like 10-20 people at once. And listening and responding to so many people without information loss is just not possible in this game. Especially when a lot of stuff is going on, which makes it required to slow gameplay down further (by increasing vehicle spawn times (and the amount of vehicles, as well), getting rid of firebases and rally points as spawn points, and increasing the penalty for dying).

[Wicca]

Gameplay mechanics.

Spawn time. Spawn Points. Veichles.

[Vicious302]

The reason WHY 516 isn't happening soon.

Don't pass misinformation around..

Soppa said the crash was due to a normal BF2 crash "ghostids".

[Pesticide]

any new test today ? Best to use a map with most tickets like silent eagle, the maps yesterday didnt suit 200+ very well or werent good server fillers ( i hate iron eagle ). Sofar lagwize the sweet spot to me felt like 160+ players. 200+ became laggy on kashan desert bunker with observing lots of warping enemy infantry from north bunker on top of south bunker roof as usa marksmen.

[Vicious302]

any new test today ? Best to use a map with most tickets like silent eagle, the maps yesterday didnt suit 200+ very well or werent good server fillers ( i hate iron eagle ). Sofar lagwize the sweet spot to me felt like 160+ players. 200+ became laggy on kashan desert bunker with observing lots of warping enemy infantry from north bunker on top of south bunker roof as usa marksmen.

160 players is about proper squad size too... 9 squads at 9 man squad.... 3 fireteams each.

166 is 81 soldiers + 1 commander + 1 Admin per side. That should be the minimum, also squads should be increased to anywhere from 12-18 just incase of locked squads.

[doop-de-doo]

Remember that games used to only be 8 player.

If we have people that are willing and interested in exploring the possibilities for player limits, why try to stifle them? The people that want to make it happen should be allowed to so in the same way that people who limit their server numbers are. If it becomes too much to handle, the ones developing and hosting this server will be sure to point it out.

If they manage to get a server up and running that handles that many people, I'm not going to complain. In my mind, what's holding it back is some bugs and logistics.

[Pesticide]

well there is other games out there that have 222 player servers like mount and blade warband for a year now. The modders hex edited the server code until they found the sweetspot. some footage : Justin.tv - pesticide - Mount and Blade Warband 222 players full server maddness!!! and remember all 200 players are very close to each other hacking n slashing at each other with minimal lag. Not even the billion dollar world of warcrack managed to do that right to have 100 vs 100 on their uber blade servers in their battlegrounds

so everytime a new AAA game announces their EPIC 32 player multiplayer support a kitten dies somewhere out of shame.

[Spec]

There is 200 player servers in warband, yes. One popular one to be precise. I have not yet seen teamwork in it.

[BroCop]

well there is other games out there that have 222 player servers like mount and blade warband for a year now. The modders hex edited the server code until they found the sweetspot. some footage : Justin.tv - pesticide - Mount and Blade Warband 222 players full server maddness!!! and remember all 200 players are very close to each other hacking n slashing at each other with minimal lag. Not even the billion dollar world of warcrack managed to do that right to have 100 vs 100 on their uber blade servers in their battlegrounds

so everytime a new AAA game announces their EPIC 32 player multiplayer support a kitten dies somewhere out of shame.

Ahem. You've seen the engine M&B uses?

I mean seriously...its like comparing a shack with a 20 story building

[Wicca]

Ok guys. im quite depressed now. i cant play 64 anymore... I just feel sad. Im just so lost.. siiiiigh....

[ghoststorm11]

We need the big servers back up!!!

[killonsight95]

I can play 64, i find it nice and easy to SL

[KingKong.CCCP]

Ok, I'll give it a try


EDIT:
... and I did try.
I didn't play 64 in like.. 2 months.

It's so odd... really looks empty and gamey. Joined TG, saw NorthPlum leading squad, 6 guys... I clicked JOIN.
What do you know... you can have only 6 guys in the group. The map was Muttrah. Funny feeling. I kept checking corners, looking all around me, expecting enemies... nothing. The server was full, and we could run around the streets without any problem. You don't have to check left and right, you just run forward. There is no front line. You can have contact from any side.

Compared to Full PR (128+), Demo PR (64) is a bit depressive.
Ok, I'm sorry for that joke, but it does bring that feeling. I mean, it was ok when we were stuck with it, cos you can't really play any other game out there (nothing like PR), but it ain't a battle.

One more thing,
I believe playing on big servers doubles the experience points in PR.
If people who play 64 stay with 64, while others are playing on big servers, those 64ers will be totally lost if they join it in few months.

[Oddsodz]

I Love the idea of lots of players. I Really do. But alas it has 2 major and I do mean MAJOR failing.

It relies on teamwork of the highest kind (not a bad thing in it's self).
And this make it all too easy to "grief" a server. In servers with 64 players. It only takes 1 "grieffer" to screw a team for the whole round. Now you have 100+ players on server and it's still the same thing. Just that 64 players instead of 32 get butt fucked when a "grieffer" wants to have his fun. It is a major issue of PR. The influence that one player can have over an entire team is too much. Shame really. But there are tit out there. It's nothing new. But it is made 100% more frustrating on bigger player count servers.

And secondly, it is an admin nightmare. You have to remember, "Admins" want to play as well. Admining 64 players can be a pain at times. Now with 100+ players. It is a full time job each round. This could be addressed with just a few map edited. Stuff like a Hard Roofs on main bases to stop "base Raping" Arty/Jet/HELO bombings. High wails with multiple exits routes for all vehicles. Small things like that.

As cool as it is to have all this long range bombing systems ARTY/Jet Bomb/HeLO Hellfires. There is no fun in "Spawn/die/Spawn/die/Spawn/Die" from a player(s) that will not follow to rules of a server.

I Ask that all RP Mappers think on this in the future. Lets make the Admins job an easy one. Design the maps so that "Base Raping" is not an issue. By doing so, you will make a lot of server admins really REALLY happy. More gaming, Less "admining".

So to finish. Congratulations on breaking the barrier of 64 player servers. It is a great achievement. And when played in the PRT, it will be super EPICness of the highest kind.

[cyprezz]

I have to disagree with people who claimed that more people means less teamwork. When I was playing with 200 people in a server on Monday, people actually cooperated and stay together as a group and help built asset and achieve goals. Sure there were some knuckleheads, but overall it was very cooperative. I have played in the 64 player server and it seem like there's less team work and about 1/3 of the team is unassigned to a squad.

[Oddsodz]

I Never said there was no teamwork.

[Wicca]

No oddz. You did good

It is an admin nightmare.

But thanks to AD Framework we are very lucky in this community. Since its an easy system to learn and use. Thanks for Afterdune and the dev team for that.


If i admin one side for mumble. I usually join squad 1. And say. Hello, i will be your admin today.

I then ask every member of the squad, Are you in mumble? If no responce i usually ask again and wait. Until i kick them for not responding. Then i keep asking, whenever someone says, No im not in mumble its an instant kick. And if someone says yes. I double check my 2nd monitor. If it doesnt check out, i ask them what mumble name is. (Sometimes people are bluffing) Etc.

So when squad 1 is done. All 6/12/16 guys. I go to squad 2.

This usually takes 1 hour, maybe 1 1/2. If you have 2 admins doing that on either side constantly. No playing.

Then you have the !reports, and the occasional HEY BASERAPE/ROADKILL/TK/GRIEFING issues. They dont happen too often. But usually is dealt with in warnings and kicks. Sometimes i just join the squad, and tell them what they are doing wrong. And if they respond rudely. Bye bye.

If there is alot of admins on, by default. I game more. And try to contribute to the "teams" cooperation coordination and communication. I try to get in peoples asses and act as abnoxios as possible to get the team rolling in the right direction (Someone has to be a ****).

Then when that is going, i usually try getting some kills. But all in all, insurgency is the round i do most mumble adminning, since i am not to fond of the gamemode (No disrespect to the devs, outstanding work).

And it is sort of a job for me at times. I admin, get something to drink. Talk browse the internet. Work some more on the mumble adminning. All whilst just sitting in the main.

I as an admin, would love the devs, to make mumble more simpler to use. IE setup standard buttons for everyone, regardless of theyr preferences. Automaticly setup their sound regardless. And automaticly join the official mumble server when the PR mumble is started. This makes the "newb" phase of mumble end more quickly. IE Install/DOUBLE CLICK and done.

The automitication of joining mumble channels would also be nice. The less explaining, the more success imo.

Another thing that bothers me, is obviously main baserapers. If you can make it as a rule not to have baserape in any server. I respect all other communities, clans and servers for their own right to write their own rules. But having a bombcar come in and just ruin the day. Is not cool. And it makes my already stressed out job harder. Cause now i have to restart the map, meaning players will leave and/or be pissed. And i will get yelled at.

Its not that i cant take the yelling, but id rather not you know

So please make it impossible to baserape.

Everything else is fine.

Just to sum up:

Mumble Automatic all you have to do is= Download, install, Double click AND DONE
No baserape. would be nice with 1second death rules for teams for "ENTERING" the main base gates.


this last suggestion, and i dont know if its possible. But if you can pick up on the number of TKs per griefer, the type of weapon and how often he kills. And then make an autokick script that follows that.

Might be impossible But worth a shot.



Also guys, this is for the community. Id like to try out some platoons on the server. Just to see if its doable.This means using teamspeak for Platoon leaders. That means only 3 people will be in TS. So if anyone is interested in such a role. Please contact me on xfire: wiccasick

And we can work out some stuff.

// Wicca out

[Jaymz]

Going to lock this....

We will not be exceeding 128 players. A final decision on the new max player limit will be made by the team and will reflect both what we believe best suites PR's gameplay and minimizes the hit to performance.