Project Reality Forums

If you guys can get this asset prepped, we can also include it in the main mod

Anyway, I'll be back in a few weeks or so, so get ready to bump this

Just want to say, ignore what I said earlier about Nigeria and the FAL. Upon further research, it seems that most for the pics I found, wmust've been old or reserve troops. They started phasing out the FAL for the AKMS in the early 2000's.

I've also briefly researched every sub-saharan African army of a fair size - Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Chad, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Gabon, Uganda, Ethiopia, Kenya, Somalia, Tanzania, Angola, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Namibia and South Africa. Nearly all of these armies issue AK variants to their frontline troops, with a few instead issuing G3's or M16's, and South Africa with the R4 Galil copy.

It looks as if the FAL has really gone out of style, seems like the only realistic application for it, would be as part of some kind of militia force.

I went back and forth on the FN FAL for a while. On one hand, the majority of weapons in the region are AK-47s and variants thereof. Studies linked below estimate 60% or more of the guns there are Kalashnikovs or knockoffs. We could arm these Congolese soldiers with AKs and call it a day. But I was looking for a little variety in the armament so we don't end up with another group of guys from a far off corner of the world running around with AK-47s. I did a lot of research and found that G3s are quite common in the region, and the FN FAL is still around in significant numbers as well. In fact, the FN FAL and MAG were standard issue in the Zaire army prior to the overthrow that changed the government and also changed the name to Democratic Republic of Congo.

The DRC's army is in shambles right now, and their weaponry is anything but standardized. Here's a few references I found for the FN FAL:

Check the tables and pictures on page 21 for the FN FAL and Lee Enfield.

Read the last paragraph about Greek ammunition. It's talking about rebels, but the same guns are everybody's hands.

Scroll to the bottom; there is a quote from Jane's on the small arms of Zaire (now the DRC).

That last link is making me rethink the Colt 1911... So do you think we should keep the FN FAL or ditch it for something else? Personally, I think we should keep it, but I'm definitely open to debate.

(exec_4ever is gonna kill me)


One last thing - the only reason I thought the CNDP would be a good choice is that it makes sense that they would be fighting against factions we already have in the game, and they have the same weapons and even more command structure than the DRC army. They are rebels only in the sense that they are not the military of the officially recognized government of the DRC. Really though, it doesn't matter what we call them, and it may just be simpler to call them Congolese soldiers. Congo is easier to say than CNDP anyways

Should we keep it as the DRC? I've changed my opinion on this one and I don't really think it matters either way.

That would be great Chuc. Looks like we're going to need a good texture artist or two.

Heavy Z, that looks really nice. Would you be willing to UV the regular stock version? And don't worry, PR is the only game/mod in existence as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to see the ultra-l33t 1911 and the bada$$ FAL in PR, but if that's not realistic, I can only regret.

In a certain way it's good, so I can finish some started work.

EDIT:
If somebody is going to UV the regular stock version, send me a PM and I'll send the updated FAL model.

A_Grounded_Pilot wrote:I went back and forth on the FN FAL for a while. On one hand, the majority of weapons in the region are AK-47s and variants thereof. Studies linked below estimate 60% or more of the guns there are Kalashnikovs or knockoffs. We could arm these Congolese soldiers with AKs and call it a day. But I was looking for a little variety in the armament so we don't end up with another group of guys from a far off corner of the world running around with AK-47s. I did a lot of research and found that G3s are quite common in the region, and the FN FAL is still around in significant numbers as well. In fact, the FN FAL and MAG were standard issue in the Zaire army prior to the overthrow that changed the government and also changed the name to Democratic Republic of Congo.

I totally agree with your points above, it's just that as much as it is still around, it isn't used by frontline government troops (which I assume a PR faction would be based around if not militia or insurgents), only reservists, paramilitary forces and rebel fighters (or do you want to include a rebel faction too?). It's a shame really, because the FAL really would add some diversity to the game. Still, it's your mod, who am I to say you can or cannot include it? I'm just giving my personal opinion on what I consider to be realistic

A_Grounded_Pilot wrote:
The DRC's army is in shambles right now, and their weaponry is anything but standardized. Here's a few references I found for the FN FAL:

Check the tables and pictures on page 21 for the FN FAL and Lee Enfield.

Those 3 rifles below the Lee-Enfield are all G3's, quite possibly license-built in Sudan.

A_Grounded_Pilot wrote:
Read the last paragraph about Greek ammunition. It's talking about rebels, but the same guns are everybody's hands.

Scroll to the bottom; there is a quote from Jane's on the small arms of Zaire (now the DRC).

That last link is making me rethink the Colt 1911... So do you think we should keep the FN FAL or ditch it for something else? Personally, I think we should keep it, but I'm definitely open to debate.

(exec_4ever is gonna kill me)


One last thing - the only reason I thought the CNDP would be a good choice is that it makes sense that they would be fighting against factions we already have in the game, and they have the same weapons and even more command structure than the DRC army. They are rebels only in the sense that they are not the military of the officially recognized government of the DRC. Really though, it doesn't matter what we call them, and it may just be simpler to call them Congolese soldiers. Congo is easier to say than CNDP anyways

Should we keep it as the DRC? I've changed my opinion on this one and I don't really think it matters either way.

If you want to base the faction on the CNDP well then, all is well if you ask me! It's quiet feasible that they'd use hand-me-down, unwanted weapons from other countries in the region, as well supplies from corrupt members of the official Congolese army itself trying to make a buck.

My vote goes to the CNDP

EDIT:

I just thought, but what if the official army of the DRC and the CNDP were included? This would then give us even more options for styles of gameplay, in a new African enviroment.

Theoretically they could fight each other, and any other faction (except maybe the PLA) could realistically also fight either of them.

There are some T34/85 still in service whit some African Countrys (Well, just 8 for Guinea Bissau) and many more for other, like Angola.

A_Grounded_Pilot wrote:That would be great Chuc. Looks like we're going to need a good texture artist or two.

Heavy Z, that looks really nice. Would you be willing to UV the regular stock version? And don't worry, PR is the only game/mod in existence as far as I'm concerned.

I can try and get that done by the end of next week... no promises though, got other projects on hand.

We're not really on a schedule here, at least not until after .85 is released and the Devs have got some playing time under their belts. Take your time. exec, will you send the most recent FAL to him?

A_Grounded_Pilot wrote:We're not really on a schedule here, at least not until after .85 is released and the Devs have got some playing time under their belts. Take your time. exec, will you send the most recent FAL to him?

I'll try to finish it in one or two days, no promises though.

I am wondering if you guys are planning on making some statics since the ones that are in the editor right now does not fit very well for Africa.

I am thinking about buildings like the ones on this picture.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9092012.jpg

That's an excellent question Kat, and honestly something I didn't even think about. I've got someone in mind, I'll ask.

the most important statics to make would be those regular roofed houses but with cement/stone architecture from african on em. Rest is already easy to replicate in PR, but something we REALLY need are Bus. There are a lot in africa and none in PR either as statics or as playable vehicles.

Otherwise, some low priority statics would be those sport centers and special buildings, but it does depend on the location of the map. 3 or 4 different statics with a/b versions should do the job for those cement kinda-mid-class housings and market buildings with lots of arches.

I'd like to see some Northern africa militia/dealers/mercs VS [Faction] here. We don't see any games about that too often.

could have a twist on insurgency but with drug stores rather then weapons caches, or both

Ain't much drugs coming out of Africa, at least not compared to Latin America or Asia. Sure Morocco is notorious for it's hash, but other than that all you have is a bit of weed being grown elsewhere.

Most weed smoked in western countries, is grown within those countries under lights these days (hence why it's mostly seedless and not seeded farm-grown weed like in the 90's and before).

Bascially what I'm saying is, Africa contributes just a fraction to the world's marijuana market and nothing to the cocaine and heroin markets. They don't have conflicts over this kind of thing.

I watched a sort of documentary where charcoal is what powers a majority of their cities in the Congo. In a National Park in the Congo, rebels illegally make the charcoal by burning trees in piles. So for a scenario thing, the government could go through the park and destroy these illegal charcoal piles smoking in the middle of the forest. All the pile basically is is a pile of leaves covering a wooden structure with white smoke coming out of the top, it would either be a pyramid shape or cone shape.

Diamonds are pretty hot topic in Africa. Would be a very cool map based in a mine!

We don't really need to make up reasons to fight. The actual conflict in the DRC is based on tribal land grabs. Remember the Hutu's and Tutsi's? That's what all the fighting is about. What we need is modellers, mappers, and texture artists

Will the soldiers have machettes instead of knives? MACHETTE FEST!!!