Project Reality Forums

DDS wrote:Who's pushing? Every squad I'm in, they ask the guy with VoIP to get on mumble.

Mumble has won.

If you refuse to get on Mumble while I am leading a squad, I will just kick you from the squad. No sense in trying to herd cats especially if they haven't caught on to Mumble already. Put on your big boy pants and just run Mumble every time before you play.

PricelineNegotiator wrote:If you refuse to get on Mumble while I am leading a squad, I will just kick you from the squad. No sense in trying to herd cats especially if they haven't caught on to Mumble already. Put on your big boy pants and just run Mumble every time before you play.

And I would add that there is a script that I use to run mumble (first) and PR. So it's painless and well worth the effort.

PricelineNegotiator wrote:If you refuse to get on Mumble while I am leading a squad, I will just kick you from the squad. No sense in trying to herd cats especially if they haven't caught on to Mumble already. Put on your big boy pants and just run Mumble every time before you play.

And this attitude is why PR will remain a shell of its former self for the foreseeable future. Squad Leaders who are too good for new players and don't have any time to deal with the "little people". It's all about you and your experience, to hell with everybody else. If they want to fall in line and behave, that's great, but they better not expect much help to get there.

mat552 wrote:And this attitude is why PR will remain a shell of its former self for the foreseeable future. Squad Leaders who are too good for new players and don't have any time to deal with the "little people". It's all about you and your experience, to hell with everybody else. If they want to fall in line and behave, that's great, but they better not expect much help to get there.

Hmmm.. I didn't get that from his post.

He requires mumble to be used in his squad or he will replace you with someone who has mumble.
Instead of getting all personal why not explain why you are so adamant about not using Mumble? You know.. point, counter point. This ought to be fun.

Strange nobody mentioned NEW and QRF servers, yes they are German but the squad chat is in English and you will find organized squads most of the times, they interact and team play is a must. And if not like a few days ago on QRF you can address it to the admin and he will call the wondering around squads to play in and for the team. Admins are very good on these servers. And after, the team play was restored.

I think the team play is still very high on these servers. on another mentioned server inhere I had some bad stuff with team killers and disrupting squads, no team play no coms and after notifying the admin he said it is what it is, that is in my book a no go when running a PR server. Team play must be forced. That is simply the game we choose and play, otherwise go play BF2 or 3.

This is also why I run PR sometimes and log of immediately, simply because NEW is full or QRF is offline. I do not want to be on another server to be the one and only squad defending the flag and playing on the mini-map where it needs us.

And I just quit if it is to bad, last night I played on the BIA server, was very skilled and good, until the last round, we had a Italian clan squad not defending not attacking, so the flag close to them was captured, we had to retreat to try to get the lost flag back , simply because they stayed where they where. when we arrived they where right next to us on the edge, but outside the cap zone, we entered. We ran into a firefight (ambush) we managed to survive and kill the enemy, but we needed the wounded revived (5 men down I was the only one alive), instead of helping us, the squad did just watched and did nothing, after that we came under attack again, there must have been a enemy fob close and the Italians just retreaded to a, for them safe, position, letting us sort it out. I had revived two squad members after first trying to find our medic kit. Just ridiculous, after confronting the Italian master SL over mumble is only reaction was, chill out and his squad was alive and we where dead lol, so he did it right and we sucked. This kind of attitude is just killing the PR servers out there, or at least leaving the team play players out.

Anyway I find the quality more then ok on the mentioned servers, outside that I do like to occasionally play on NWA and Merk, but first I check if I see familiar clans if not then I am not joining.

DDS wrote:Hmmm.. I didn't get that from his post.

He requires mumble to be used in his squad or he will replace you with someone who has mumble.
Instead of getting all personal why not explain why you are so adamant about not using Mumble? You know.. point, counter point. This ought to be fun.

Not to take things out of context here, but I think mat means that a responsible squad leader will help the new player, whether he is on Mumble or not. If anything, he will politely let him/her know that the squad is using a 3rd party program to communicate, and where it can be found for download. Personally I would consider letting a 'non-mumbler' into my squad as long as he is cooperative and responsive on text or VoIP. You're not doing anyone favours by kicking them out, and you're certainly not helping the community by excluding a potentially great new player.

I remember when I started out playing I didn't know what Mumble was and I certainly didn't like people telling me to get on it. I'm glad people were more tolerant then and still let me play in their squads. Eventually I caught wind of why it was actually a pretty useful application and started using it.

DDS wrote:Instead of getting all personal why not explain why you are so adamant about not using Mumble?

Instead of pursuing a mumble/anti-mumble circle jerk, I'll just say that I'm very concerned about the new player experience, which is what I feel should be far more important than anything else. New players are probably not going to give the mod more than one or two rounds. (If the download was smaller, they might not even give it that..) If what they find during those rounds are people who are so 2good4u they assume that someone not on mumble is willfully trolling or stupid and are beaten on accordingly, they aren't going to come back, and PR is going to stay where it is now.

PR's greatest asset is (or was) its community, not the creative workarounds, not the gorgeous assets, not the hard work on the sound, it was always the willingness of the people here to teach and be taught. New tactics, new strategy, new theories, new ways of looking at the game. I trace the homogenization of map approaches primarily to this (closely followed by mechanics that make innovation dangerous and costly).

tl;dr Mumble is a symptom, not the problem.

mat552 wrote:
PR's greatest asset is (or was) its community, not the creative workarounds, not the gorgeous assets, not the hard work on the sound, it was always the willingness of the people here to teach and be taught. New tactics, new strategy, new theories, new ways of looking at the game.

I agree, which is why I think we should get more players to go on the forums as well. A lot of players that I know play alot but don't even have an account on the forums. And with the growing Chinese PR community that is still separated and disconnected from the 'mainstream' PR community that doesn't come to the forums at all.

Mumble is the solution, not the symptom.
IMO, if a person can find PR, download and install it, he should be able to also install Mumble. ITS NOT THAT HARD.
Im the kind of squadleader that tells players to get on mumble or kindly leave the squad. And that has nothing to do with me thinking im better than them if they dont use mumble, its simply because its 10 times better for both them and me. They will miss out on alot of whats going on if they cant hear the mumble chatter. Example:
*I spot a grenade landing*
I yell on Mumble: "Grenade!"
Then on voip: "Gren-BOOM!"
I dont have time to give all orders twice. So please, get on mumble (even if you dont have a mic) or dont join my "mumble inf" squad.
Also, i dont mind helping out people who dont know what mumble is/cant get it to work. I dont understand where this whole Mumble=elitist is comming from.

I cant understand the people who dont like mumble. It takes the game to a new level, you can use intersquad communication quite easily, can warn other players around you that enemy is coming or a tank is around the corner or simply ask for a medic to revivie 2 mates because your medic died. Without mumble i had quit PR.

But i can understand that some people think it is a problem for new players. If you a new, and just want to give the game a try your typical experience is maybe join server, run around on an empty map because you dont understand how the game works get shot...wait 30 seconds for respawn and then get kicked because of mumble. That can happen and thats not good. The biggest problem that i see is that mumble is not integrated into PR.
There should be a starter menu what starts mumble and pr togehter,instead of starting it for its own. Whats about the "admin" problem? Is there no way around? Or create a big popup window START MUMBLE AS ADMIN. Because that small message on the right side in PR Mumble doesnt help the most people, they just dont see it and try to join a server and it doesnt work. It is some kind of complicated...even if you have experience with Teamspeak. With Teamspeak you doubleclick, server ip and everything works. I hope there will be changes the way how mumble is integrated in the game starting process or a way to push players to start it the right way.
But PR needs Mumble because it adds so much to the game, not only gameplay wise, it help to create some kind of community too because you speak with more people or they speak to you.

Gosu-Rizzle wrote: I dont understand where this whole Mumble=elitist is comming from.

You don't? Well let me shed a little light from personal experience.

Gosu-Rizzle wrote:Im the kind of squadleader that tells players to get on mumble or kindly leave the squad.

and

Gosu-Rizzle wrote:Also, i dont mind helping out people who dont know what mumble is/cant get it to work.

are almost necessarily opposing sentiments. People say they're willing to teach and help right up until someone actually joins the squad without mumble. In that moment, a polar shift of attitude happens. It isn't "let's take a moment to get you set up", it almost exclusively winds up being "I don't have the time or energy to teach you, go rtfm and join another game".

There is a firm and discernible disconnect between the attitudes of many pro mumble players on the forums, where they gallantly defend this super teamwork addon that makes life perfect with no downsides that is super easy to teach and everyone should use it because it's so foolproof and the attitudes of pro mumble players in the game, who demonstrate intolerance for technical issues, questions, ignorance of the addon from a fresh face, and tend to gloss over issues like music being played or being privy to conversations that have no purpose and place in PR, serving only to distract and create noise, as well as in some servers, taunting and unsportsman like behavior that has no place here. The extent of these problems is known, but downplayed.

Seriously, wat? Those 2 quotes are in no way opposing. When i say, "this is a mumble squad, please get on" and they say: "what is mumble?" Then i help them. I have helped out at least 10 players fix their mumble issues this way. (Even though it can be annoying if youre in a stressfull situatiuon, and people just dont bother do read the manual or check the forums. So i can understand if some veteran players could lose patiance if they have to answer the same questions over and over.)

The other half of your post is just your opinion, which i humbly disagree with. All the things you mention as anoying about mumble, can just as easily be done with ingame VoiP. And i hardly ever experience those things anyway.

mat552 wrote:PR's greatest asset is (or was) its community, not the creative workarounds, not the gorgeous assets, not the hard work on the sound,

Wow, Anders just got dissed.

mat552 wrote:it was always the willingness of the people here to teach and be taught.

Ok, hold that thought...

Oskar wrote:Not to take things out of context here, but I think mat means that a responsible squad leader will help the new player, whether he is on Mumble or not...

You both are assuming that every player who is not on mumble is being mistreated or something. A "responsible" squad leader is doing their squad "a favor" by making sure that communication is standardized for his squad. 5 other players don't want to be using 3 different keys to accommodate someone who is either unwilling or stubborn about using mumble. There are OTHER squads they can join. Preferably one that doesn't say "mumble" in it.

Yes there are people who will kick you for not using mumble. Some will also kick you if you sound like you are 5 years old. They most certainly will kick you if you don't use your microphone at all. You could be kicked if you are eating food or if you just grabbed a sniper rifle in a jungle map. Or they could kick you simply because they don't like you. But the fact of the matter is VoIP is old news. Way more people use mumble than VoIP as evidence by the hundreds of players that now occupy the PR mumble server. If you didn't get the memo then there it is. End of lesson.

dutch wrote:Strange nobody mentioned NEW and QRF servers

I would have Dutch but I have this nervous twitch developed from mentioning servers. I have played in those servers and yes they are really doing great work. I only wish more US servers would follow their lead.
Years ago I would get up at 5am just to play a couple hours before school (10th Mountain and T&T). I'll come back more often in the future.

Archerchef wrote:This game is still provides something most other game doesn't provide. PR til i die

Hear Hear ^^ Well spoken Sir

Tbh i can understand why its dwindling. When i started pr i went to high school with no worries in the world. Three years after i graduated I have been doing alot of things like national service worked a year more high school classes and then uni now. Atm i feel dirty if i go out of the study room before six. I started the school day at seven am and usually never gets home before eight pm if i feel like i cant read more iam home seven or something. When you have so little free time sitting and playing pr for two hours and hopefully get a great game just sucks the fun out of the game if you cant find anything that makes the time spent worth it. Those who played the game just a few years ago dont have time. Playing two hours with bf3 just are in my opinion more worth it. Pr is my top three greatest game but you really need to have the time to play the game.

mat552 wrote:

PricelineNegotiator;1870208 wrote:If you refuse to get on Mumble while I am leading a squad, I will just kick you from the squad. No sense in trying to herd cats especially if they haven't caught on to Mumble already. Put on your big boy pants and just run Mumble every time before you play.

And this attitude is why PR will remain a shell of its former self for the foreseeable future. Squad Leaders who are too good for new players and don't have any time to deal with the "little people". It's all about you and your experience, to hell with everybody else. If they want to fall in line and behave, that's great, but they better not expect much help to get there.

I feel like you didn't read my post.

There is no "too good for new players" in my case. I'll happily bring someone in my squad, but the point of my post was people that were not cooperating to join mumble. If they said "No, I'm not downloading some third party program to play this game" I would tell them that Project Reality centers on teamwork. This teamwork is enhanced and brought out by Mumble in ways that VOIP cannot do. Mumble is not a pain to set up and has a lot of good features. Already around 90% of the playerbase uses it, so if you decided against it, you'd be the odd man out every time you played. And if they still refused to download it, I would kick them from my squad. And rightfully so.

So let me say again, that if you haven't already caught on to mumble, then you are only hurting your team by not using it.

Conman51 wrote: And recently theres been a push to get new players into the mod. WHY!?!?!? Its these new people that we bring to the mod that i feel have degraded the community. Put it simply, If there is a player out there who is good for the PR community, he will find the mod, we dont need to find them.

i couldnt agree more

Zimmer wrote:Tbh i can understand why its dwindling. When i started pr i went to high school with no worries in the world. Three years after i graduated I have been doing alot of things like national service worked a year more high school classes and then uni now. Atm i feel dirty if i go out of the study room before six. I started the school day at seven am and usually never gets home before eight pm if i feel like i cant read more iam home seven or something. When you have so little free time sitting and playing pr for two hours and hopefully get a great game just sucks the fun out of the game if you cant find anything that makes the time spent worth it. Those who played the game just a few years ago dont have time. Playing two hours with bf3 just are in my opinion more worth it. Pr is my top three greatest game but you really need to have the time to play the game.

My life might not be as time consuming as yours, but I can relate to that. I really need to make time for PR now. I can play a lot of evenings, but that means only seeing one map or gamemode cause I got other stuff to do, and PR maps can take forever. So I rather pop in something that plays out faster so I experience different playstyles and scenarios.

Same. My life isnt so full aswell, but my brother hogs the computer in the evenings, when i used to play PR before and when i get te chance and time, there is a risk of game being ****... its 50/50 though.

I was off for like a half year. Played a game or two inbetween.

But 2 days ago I felt I need to return. So I joined NwA, and we had a good game. And than I joined MERK - we also had a good game. I feel that there are more new players to this mod than ever. Lots of people made my SL'ing chaotic. I think the problem lies withing education. Those players NEED to read forums, need to understand the basics of squad play. If not, than there will be no good rounds.

But, anyway, I don't feel that it's THAT bad as it may seem from few of the replies here in this topic. Anyway, can't wait for 1.0. Will teach those newbies how to be good grunts.