Project Reality Forums

[R-CON]Psyrus wrote:
So let me ask, as someone who I believe was a TG player, is that the kind of ethos you guys followed back in your heyday?

Nope we didn't need to. We had active competent leaders who enjoyed the challenge of playing against one another.

We did actually run a "new name weekend". Where everyone went by a alias. As expected the games were hit and miss.


I have 4 or 5 guys I like to play with now a days. When I'm online. I play with them.

brenn4n wrote:I've found that having clans apart of your community (like FCV) allowing there to be closer relations with clans and admins diffuses the clan in-game. Works pretty well on FCV.

Yeah, i noticed that too on FCV.

There have been some rounds of teamstacking... but recently when I played (about 1 week ago or so) there wasn't much. Just one or 2 rounds of Teamstacking.


But it is usually Experience vs Not so experience.

It's unfortunantly sad though. Since the unexperienced players get steamrolled, then potentially never return to PR cause of it. Cause the "experienced want to be on the good team" I guess.


But recent matches I played on various servers, I have seen a ton of Experienced vs. Poorly Skilled, ect.

When ever these team stacks occur, the opposing team usually goes complete retard and no one does anything/the ones that try give up because of idiots. Squads disperse, people sit in main, alot of stuff happens and they end up losing.

While that goes on ALOT of people try joining the stacked team, which is why people stop trying on the other team.

This all ruins the fun of this mod and it really sucks when I try joining a squad and see it is locked and is a clan only squad, that goes second to free kit squads taking up a squad slot for those that can actually use it...

A far greater problem in my eyes is the way a team loses 5-10 players early in a round if they get off to a bad start. The PR player base (at least on American servers) seems to wind up with 50-50 teams becoming 55-45 teams on a regular basis.

pierrethemonkey wrote:prWARs are the best at this team stacking, 15 of them join a server and ruin the autobalance. back in my day we played against each other for fun..

Christie.Front.Drive wrote:A far greater problem in my eyes is the way a team loses 5-10 players early in a round if they get off to a bad start. The PR player base (at least on American servers) seems to wind up with 50-50 teams becoming 55-45 teams on a regular basis.

On that server I leave the second I see the next map is insurgency and take a saftey break. It takes a pretty special insurgent team to make it workable and fun. Other wise its sit in alley ways and small streets waiting for some blufor to come around the corner. Or what usually happens is not only are all prWar guys on blufor (ALWAYS!) and teams unbalanced but the insurgent team folks see this and the massacre going on and start to leave. I doubt prWAR gus cant even pronounce Allahu Akbar.
On the other hand the best matches I play are on that server and other than the INS complaint I dont have issues with stacking. If its a blow out and my team is on its knees I start a squad and make somethin happen. Even if there is no hope of winning. I am in it for good firefights and playing war. I dont care if im on winning team.

Christie.Front.Drive wrote:A far greater problem in my eyes is the way a team loses 5-10 players early in a round if they get off to a bad start. The PR player base (at least on American servers) seems to wind up with 50-50 teams becoming 55-45 teams on a regular basis.

Yeah I've seen this happen, I go defensive pretty fast and encourage the rest of the team to do so if we don't have any clear advantages at that time.

But remember at the end of the day - you cannot mod players.

One of the main advantages clan players have over non-clan players is the ability to co-ordinate with other squads and to work efficiently together in the squad.

Bearing this in mind, I believe a solution can be found.

Before I continue along this tack, I would like to clarify a few other factors. Firstly, I currently think clan stacking is a problem. Not only as a result of the poor level of teamplay demonstrated on non-stacked team, but also due a lack of attention and care by some admins to balance teams out. Yes, I can admit seeing a team stacked with clan players can be daunting when your team seems so inexperienced. However, defeating a clan stacked team is not impossible.

There is no one solution to clan stacking, and as such, we should try to implement a variety of measures to ameliorate the balance. Change is not something the Server Administrators should solely partake in. The change has to come from clan players and non-clan players alike.

Firstly, the previous suggestions that servers should utilize a lengthier briefing time seems like a very progressive and simple countermeasure. All server administrators should seriously consider doing this. It gives more time to move clans around before briefing has finished and tempers have risen.

Secondly, Server Administrators also have a duty to monitor the balance of a team in the previous round. It's not difficult to spot clan members entering a server. Server Admins should have a good idea of which clans regularly play on their servers, and in what numbers. If one of these clan players joins, the SA should think that more will follow and preemptively switch them to the non-stacked side before more join.

I can't think of any more methods that SAs can use to level out teams. But this gives me time to explore with you another reason that is far more dear to me and pertinent to the game in general.

Simply put, PR is not played as it once was. At this point, you can argue against me and state that we should accept that. You could say it's just the nature of games, change occurs and we are powerless to stop it. But if that's what you believe, then you will damn this game and damn what made this game special to me initially. We might as well be playing Call of Duty (excuse me for the blasphemy on these righteous forums).

The change I have perceived manifests in two main ways:

1) People no longer have as much patience in this game.

This covers a plethora of angles, from witnessing flags undefended day in day out, to people rushing straight to objectives without a thought to observe the map, co-ordinate with other squads and scout the terrain in front of them. Nowadays most people rush into contact, wait to be shot before realizing the enemy is around you and die in seconds. We need to slow the pace of the game down. Give more time for people to think and to react sensibly.

People are always becoming frustrated in-game when squads die too easily. That's because most squad leaders and even more squad members rush. They don't think, they don't observe and they run around as if this game were any other first person shooter. This wasn't so prevalent several years ago.

2) Asset whores galore.

What happened to good old infantry fighting, and infantry based maps? All I see is muttrah, kashan, burning sands and muttrah in rotation 24/7. It's sickening, it really is. And this is where I think these two problems are intertwined. Since people no longer have so much patience in this game, the quality of infantry fighting, infantry squad leaders and infantry grunts has decreased significantly.

I can understand why people prefer to take assets sometimes. When the infantry battles pan out as they do currently (in most cases) then it's no wonder the more experienced infantry squad leaders either leave the game or take an asset.

I was perusing the PR forums yesterday and I came across a topic about a lack of infantry squad leaders. The guy was on the money, there simply aren't as many good infantry squad leaders these days. This is because the quality of infantry fighting has deteriorated so severely. So has the level of communication between players and squads. I sometimes play on servers for 2 or 3 rounds in a row. During these periods I rarely hear anything from other squad leaders. It seems most people have forgotten a key element of this game: communication.

Returning on topic, considering these two factors I believe the change we need to see, in order to fix the issue at hand, needs to come from the community on the whole as well as on the side of SAs.

I previously stated that the main advantage clan stacked teams have over pubbie teams is a greater level of communication. It doesn't take a genius to talk, send pertinent information and devise a strategy with other squad leaders. If you find that you're on the opposite team to a clan stacked team then you should motivate your team. Get them to communicate and co-ordinate. It's not that hard. Look at your map, consider the assets you and your enemy have at hand and execute a realistic plan.

A few days ago I logged on to the NEW server where a great number of my clan was playing. On that same team were some other clans. I loaded into the opposite team and they were losing miserably. It was only 20-30 minutes into the game on muttrah. Mec, the team I loaded into, had been pushed back to East city and their KD was 10-40. Pretty dire?

I immediately recognized the problem. It wasn't necessarily the fact that the US team was stacked. But it was because this team lacked direction and communication. Every squad leader and their squad was engaged in their own battle. So, I took up the challenge and applied as Commander. Without trying to sound conceited, I was the catalyst to getting squads to talk and co-ordinate. It only took one person to take responsibility and turn around events. Even though we lost 40-0, the round was enjoyable and our team gave a good fight. My point is, we should all try and be the change we want to see.

If you find that you're on the opposite team to a clan stacked team then motivate other squad leaders. Get them to communicate. Decide who will attack and defend. You don't need to become a commander to do this. Some squad leaders should take the authority upon themselves. You might not always win, but you will have a good round.

In summary:

- Clan stacking cannot be fixed by one solution alone
- Clan stacking isn't always necessarily the problem
- Clan players have the advantage not necessarily in skill but in better communication and organization
- Clan stacking should be dealt with by Server Admins and the Community simulataneously
- All of us in this game need to have far more patience
- Squad leaders need to communicate with one another far more often
- We all need to be the change we want to see in this community

Please, I implore on you all. Take the time to defend objectives, if we all begin to think in this way defending will not be so monotonous. Slow down, observe, consider the current stance of your team and the enemy's. PR, and warfare, is all about the analysis of the information at hand. Good teams communicate well and consequently information is disseminated adequately. Teams that are steam rolled always lack communication, information and co-ordination.

Team stacking is really a smaller part of a larger problem.

P.S. Defence is terribly important in this game. Most people do not know this, but if the enemy team captures your flag in AAS (not neutralized, but fully capped) your team will lose 30 tickets.

Well said danger, I play in Australia time zone and see so much of this, no comms from SL' s, SM' s, even trying to gently command is more often met with complete silence then anything else.
Lack of organization to defend, not building FOB s near rear flags all contribute to setbacks becoming a steamroll.

Just last night on jabal, one infantry squad, no FOBs, steamroll - alt f4

Maybe the problem isn't clan stacking but egotistical un communicative stacking on the losing side?

I don't help as an experienced but **** SL I don't want to SL when half my squad don't talk, can't follow markers or get their fave kits without asking.

I can only agree with Danger. The big issue is communication. It really isnt that hard. Its like telling the guy next to you on the sidewalk, "hey mate watch out, your about to step in some shit"

Today on Hog - Jabal, I was running an apc sqd. I had a guy in it I never played with before, Chris something..
I never experienced this good coms. But alas the other 4 inf sqds on the team said nothing for the whole round.

I asked for info, I asked for SL to communicate, and nothing happend. So how is an admin supposed to solve this? All I can say...players STEP UP ! if your in a sqd with a lousy Sl, leave and make your own. Don't just stay in the sqd thinking you cant do better, or you would rather just grab a kit and lonewolf. You are the change.

Often when I play all nine squads are taken with two man locked recon/SF/Spetnaz squads removing that possibility.

PLODDITHANLEY wrote:Often when I play all nine squads are taken with two man locked recon/SF/Spetnaz squads removing that possibility.

Exactly, but thankfully admins are becoming increasingly attuned to this problem and will make them disband

Danger_6 wrote:2) Asset whores galore.

When a stacked team meets asset whores is a bad scene for the other team. Seeing multiple players on the stacked clan team with K : D ratio's off the chart. 60 -0, 70 - 0. I hate seeing K : D ratio's like this in PR, and I see them all the time. Welcome back to BF2 vanilla.

I feel its crass that people whom organise themselves to work toegether as a team are referred to as those ruining the game. In my opinion I dislike a balanced game between 2 teams both playing it badly a lot more than one where at least one side is playing it as intended.

Rather than seeking fault with the tags, players working well together as a team, the other players need to realize that cooperation is a big factor in the success of this particular game and should seek out ways to improve the cooperation within their game, maybe by becoming regulars on certain servers, or joining one of the many clans, which in the end do not amount to much more than tags, but that alone helps players to keep coming back toegether for an improved experience.

In the tags you will find its less likely that players ignore or disobey their squadleader. In the tags you will find it less likely that the squadleader ignores other squadleaders trying to raise him. Lonewolfing drops dramatically and I havent seen one single Free Kits squad whose squadleader had a tag.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ufdygnn4yuwck ... 2_2206.doc

Hopefully this guide will help. You wont find tips in there on how to shoot best with the sniper rifle. But it covers some basic tactics and gives you a handle on how to communicate and what procedures to follow for requesting, directing support.

No one is complaining about guys playing the game well but merely the fact they all seem to end up on one side.

Then perhaps we can bring back the threads that celebrate the rounds when the teams are perfectly balanced and each and every one of us has a great time! We should have more of those threads. I certainly have those rounds often enough.

I wonder who would get the credit for establishing a perfectly balanced server? The SA? The clans? The newbies? Chance?

CR8Z wrote:I wonder who would get the credit for establishing a perfectly balanced server? The SA? The clans? The newbies? Chance?

The admins and the experienced players would be the ones to thank for that.

All this talk about stacking and not one mention of the worst people on the planet. Oh happy days!

ODS is running the game!

Cassius wrote:I feel its crass that people whom organise themselves to work toegether as a team are referred to as those ruining the game. In my opinion I dislike a balanced game between 2 teams both playing it badly a lot more than one where at least one side is playing it as intended.

Rather than seeking fault with the tags, players working well together as a team, the other players need to realize that cooperation is a big factor in the success of this particular game and should seek out ways to improve the cooperation within their game, maybe by becoming regulars on certain servers, or joining one of the many clans, which in the end do not amount to much more than tags, but that alone helps players to keep coming back toegether for an improved experience.

In the tags you will find its less likely that players ignore or disobey their squadleader. In the tags you will find it less likely that the squadleader ignores other squadleaders trying to raise him. Lonewolfing drops dramatically and I havent seen one single Free Kits squad whose squadleader had a tag.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ufdygnn4yuwck ... 2_2206.doc

Hopefully this guide will help. You wont find tips in there on how to shoot best with the sniper rifle. But it covers some basic tactics and gives you a handle on how to communicate and what procedures to follow for requesting, directing support.

well said

and as cougar pointed out, easier to drop the tags and avoid the bullshit. i have a lot of good friends in pr, and we all play together. we don't revive ********. we send rescue missions.

it's communication and coordination that won the match, and that's the spirit of pr. let's not forget that this same issue was brought up on tg, h, merk, bw, hog, cia and every other server between, ongoing for 7 years now. i've spent a lot of time on these servers. i know most regulars in pr at this point. i think they generally understand how matches are won. they don't ***** to the admins when the game goes south. they react accordingly, and that's the partition this thread is about. it's the regs, clan or not, that make or break any given match. they don't play soft to accommodate other grown men's feelings.

some posters in this thread idle for 2 hours and play for 10 minutes before they drop out. i can point to three, reading through this all. they don't play. instead, they are here to complain, and shit on other players for working together cohesively. pisses me off, i'll be honest. i represent myself, as an individual. i play as an individual. the minute this game tells friends that they can't play together is the minute i'm getting the fuck out of pr. i've already kicked the bucket with 4 great servers, just 1 to go now and i'll play hard until it's over.

dy.21

it is essentially the responsibility of the server admins to ensure that the teams are more or less balanced to provide enjoyable gameplay for both teams.

Players in clans are not necessarily "better" than those which are not, but it makes it easier for admins to balance the gameplay since by talking with just one person (usually the clan leader or just the squad leader of the clan squad) they can arrange that that entire squad could join the losing side next round with the intentions of providing a balanced gameplay. By talking with just one guy the admins are capable of sending over a group of people which in theory are most likely working together as a squad.

If the admins for the server which you regularly play on do not provide an adequate playing experience for you please report it ingame using the report function. If after a round or two there is no progress you may then file a complaint on the servers' private forum. Do not spam the ingame chat with repeated reports. If after filing a formal complaint on their private forum there is no noticeable gameplay improvement on that server please consider switching your go-to server to a different one.

it's rather simple really.