Project Reality Forums

I totally agree with spook, please remove the new rallypoint system it will destroy the unique gameplay.

Bluedrake42 wrote:Could we get some dev feedback on the reasoning on bringing this back? it seems like the response is pretty unanimously against the change

Devs are reading the feedback forum very carefully.
Just because we do not answer yet, doesn't mean we don't take this feedback seriously.

Instant rallies make gameplay faster, more adapted to 100p rounds but it more seems like spawn-die shooter. No need any logistic to make instant zerg-rush. Make rallies as commander rally in previous version: squadmembers able to spawn limited number of times, for example 16: 2 spawns for full 8-men squads. For 4-men squads these rallies will feels like FOB during a hour of longer

Disliked of the new RP system, now nobody is afraid to die, do not retreat and do not get cover. (project not reality, vanilla)

I dont like the new rally system at all. To be honest, i am one of the players that are searching for action all the time and hate to wait, but the system right now is just bad. Its like COd or Bf3 right now, the best thing about pr is the fact that you fear failing. You dont want to get killed so you take youre time and try to advance in the best possible way (that doesnt mean you cant get action). If you get killed you even wait several minutes to get revived because you dont want to respawn and then move to the location again.
For me its even worse cause im trying to finish a round without dying for a single time, this is just not possible in PR1.0 beta.

But now you cant do that because you will get killed anyway. You wont be able to take a flag with a single squad or just 2 guys since there are so many possibilities for the enemy team to reach you in like two minutes... Theres not even a possibility to cap the flag at all (if the enemy team isnt just fuckin around) due to the amount of players that are fighting, dying and respawning there all the time. Its impossible to cut enemy supplies. You cant find all Fobs and Ralleys without getting killed.

When i have a nice run in 0.98 im sometimes really going crazy about it, its a lot of fun. But when i have such a killstreak in PR1.0 i just feel like its not that good at all - because of all the deads which i needed to do it. Its not like PR anymore somehow. The only reason to play PR and not some Action-Shooters is the value of life in this game. It gets destroyed.

I like the new system simply as it punishes people who have gotten used to the old one which awarded people for sitting on their asses. Want to successfully defend a position? You must root out the enemy.

Attacking positions is more interesting as you cannot simply walk in and kill the enemy, you must prepare for immediate counter-attack, keep positions until you are reinforced and then root the enemy and continue your assault to next target. AWESOMENESS. It creates a good front line and interesting combat as someone needs to defend the surrounding area where rallies are from being flanked and destroyed, while rest are working on to push the enemy away. I finally got some of that feeling I got when I first played the mod.

Whatever you do DEVs, don't make the changes too fast.
I would propose to double the distance rallies get destroyed.

Rally Points get destroyed by 1 enemy within 20m, 40m, 80m radius (1 km, 2 km, 4 km maps respectively).

Other thing to consider is to not allow rallies to be placed within some distance from flag positions. 700m or 800m could work, maybe even farther.

In my opinion, the actual system is good for large maps but needs to be improved so ppl don't abuse of it.

-No time limit.

-The squadleader cannot put a new rally point if there is one already. The new rally point can be placed only 12 mins (or 15 min) after the destruction of the old one. Also, the rally can be placed only 12 mins after squad's creation (to avoid some people create a new squad to put a new rally). The squadleader has the ability to detroy the rally point with his commo rose.

-Each member of the squad can spawn 2 times (or one time) on the rally, after that the rally goes red for the member. If all respawns have been used, the rally destroy itself.

-The actual rally's destruction system is quite good, because it allows to destroy unreachable rally points. The problem is that we don't know if the ennemy rally is destroyed or not. A little message to notify it on the screen of the squadleader or the squad member who destroyed the rally by his presence would be nice.

Rally points add dynamism to the game on large maps. It will fight against freezed games where everyone camp on his position "a la kashan".

This is my first post but i play PR since the v0.5 and this is one of my favorite games. I'm just taking the time today to post on the forum because i like to see rally points back and i think they have a room in this version who introduce large maps with a lot of players.

Raic wrote: Attacking positions is more interesting as you cannot simply walk in and kill the enemy, you must prepare for immediate counter-attack, keep positions until you are reinforced and then root the enemy and continue your assault to next target. AWESOMENESS. It creates a good front line and interesting combat as someone needs to defend the surrounding area where rallies are from being flanked and destroyed, while rest are working on to push the enemy away. I finally got some of that feeling I got when I first played the mod.

Thats exactly what you have in 0.98 right now. Moving in, killing the enemy. Holding position until friendly reinforcements take out the enemy supply FOB to stop the constant flow of enemies towards the objective. Then expand defenses and when ready move out to the next objective. Sometimes the initial attack fails and the enemy keeps the objective...then you try again but kill their supply FOB first and then engage again.

What we have in 1.0 is a wall of death between 2 teams running against each other on an objective and a couple of small squads hunting for the many enemy rallypoints around the objective.

I was always pissed by FOB-hunting. FOBs where the key to success, you would not take any objective without hunting down the enemy FOB first. Its not AAS (Assaul and Secure) but FTF (Find the FOB). Those Rallypoints take this to a whole new level...

1. I totally agree with Spooks' argumentation!!!

2. I'm asking myself, why are Rally Points in the gameplay of PR at all? This question occured to me first yesterday, as I was pretty frustrated of thinking, that somewhere "there" in the woods is a RP that can't be even seen, because it is so small and randomly placed.
Wouldn't it make things much easier and realistic, if they were not in it? Nobody had to think about some new (some strange) rules, etc....

For me, the "slowness" (compared to other FPS) of PR makes it so interesting! For a fact, I didn't really liked FPS before I found PR!!! It doesn't help the gameplay if there is a massacre like in BF3/COD! For people who want more and more action, maybe this game isn't the right adress...


FOBS in contrast to Rally Points:

In my opinion, FOBS can be seen as "realistic". It's like a mini base. You have to bring things for a construction (crates), then place it in a good spot and then squad-/teammates have to dig it. And after this teamplay event your team has the benefit of spawning there.
In contrast to that, a RP just needs to be placed by a single click and it's done. I don't know how realistic in any way this is?! 8 new Players can spawn repeatedly. Multiplicated of course by other mini FOBS of other squads...

Another Point is, that I liked the fact of going hunting for an enemy FOB and that it was not impossible to spot it because of its size. In contrast again, finding and overrunning a RP is just a Jeopardy...!
Also I found it always weird that SL's could check, if they had enemys around, by trying to place a RP...!


So please DEVS, kill that feature totally, or at least, reset it on the point of 0.98. Otherwise it will kill the gameplay, that so many of us love on PR.



Thanks for all the hard work you put in 1.0

Yeah once again I agree with Spook, rallies have effectively replaced FOBs. FOBs used to be a priority to build and defend, as they were the primary means to control an area. Team efforts were equally split between assaulting objectives but also FOBs... but FOBs were easy to find cause they were often large and required supplies to build... so that made up for their incredible value of being a spawn point...

however with rallies now, there's no point to building a fob, unless you just want the assets that come with it... which to me is the wrong idea (tows and hmgs are for DEFENDING a fob, not for using offensively.) rallies have the same capability as a FOB but are smaller and infinitely harder to wipe out...

People keep saying the new system promotes a front line... this is NOT TRUE... now any lonewolf squad can place a rally ANYWHERE. This means units that should normally have a high risk factor to assaulting objectives behind enemy lines are practically invincible. Small HAT sniper teams, sniper teams, and flag rushers will have the advantage against relatively inferior forces in the area... this completely demolishes the front line and turns the game into a team deathmatch across the map.

When assaulting objectives my squad would constantly take fire from positions that otherwise the enemy should not have access to. Instead of taking an extreme offensive from one direction, enemy squads behind enemy lines hid rallies in forests all around us, which means we took a constant stream of forces to our vulnerable flanks. Normally the enemy would secure a position with a FOB, send a few units around the side to flank, attack primarily from the FOB position, and attack with light flanking forces. Usually if we could defeat the few flanking forces we would stand a better chance against the primary offensive... but now its like we're taking a primary offensive from EVERY direction.

As stated before, rallies should be used sparingly as a tool to rendezvous small numbers of casualties, JIP squad members, or members who got separated... they should not be used as a primary means of reinforcement... thats what fobs are for. And I feel like we had the balance quite nicely in .98

Spook wrote:Thats exactly what you have in 0.98 right now. Moving in, killing the enemy. Holding position until friendly reinforcements take out the enemy supply FOB to stop the constant flow of enemies towards the objective. Then expand defenses and when ready move out to the next objective. Sometimes the initial attack fails and the enemy keeps the objective...then you try again but kill their supply FOB first and then engage again.

What we have in 1.0 is a wall of death between 2 teams running against each other on an objective and a couple of small squads hunting for the many enemy rallypoints around the objective.

I was always pissed by FOB-hunting. FOBs where the key to success, you would not take any objective without hunting down the enemy FOB first. Its not AAS (Assaul and Secure) but FTF (Find the FOB). Those Rallypoints take this to a whole new level...

Never had problem with FTF as I always saw that securing meant surroundings as well as the flag. Rallypoints are weak as they can be destroyed by mere presence, flank the enemy and their reinforcements are cut-off, which makes sense. As for the stupid wall of death, that is problem with players more than the game. If you go and kill yourself to spawn instantly the punishment is that you lose, don't see why we need any other punishment.

Ofc, the rallypoint system is not perfect, but I do prefer it over what we had. There should be some means that limit the usage for it, but I prefer that that squad can keep pressure on forces that are sitting on their asses over simply getting killed. Combat is deadly and people dying by hundreds over objective is actually pretty cool. Actually lowers ability of a single squad to overpower whole team by sitting in mediocre defensive position.

I've not read the thread, but here's my take

I'm really torn on the "permanent" rallies. If anything, they shouldn't de-spawn when an enemy's close or whatever, but rather be suppressed, for another 5 minutes after they've left too. That way, if an enemy squad suspects a rally in that area, they'll come across it and will be able to confirm the fact. Then they get to stab it, old-style.

That's if the system remains as is. This sort of RP system makes it really boring to play as Air Trans. However, it speeds up the gameplay a lot. I've noticed that entire rounds are generally a lot more decisive, and a lot of it I imagine is to do with good rally placement. That's up to 9 sets of 8 guys able to spawn anywhere their SL wants them to be able, within limits. If it's gonna stay "permanent" then at least take the above suggestion into account. Going off to search for a rally takes focus off defense too, so if we had no absolute confirmation that a rally was there, we can be searching around in the forest for ages before we realise it must be down.

Gracler wrote:I don't like this rally system due to a this:

1. Medic's stabbing dead corpses more often because a lot more ppl decide..... oh fok it medic will take 2 min to get here and I can walk back here in 30sec.. *hits the give up button"
2. I don't care so much if I die... I can re-spawn and get back quick
3. Enemy's will have to patrol and patrol and patrol around to be effective spawn destroyers..... and they won't even know if they are just wasting there expensive boots or actually making a difference. At least they should be rewarded with a cookie saying.... "you stopped the enemy's advance" message or something. The paranoia it creates is unnecessary.
4. Rally's serve the Rally makers as a Hi-tech Alien detector device since EVERYONE will know that the enemy has found it.......the only one that doesn't know is the Enemy. To me this is backwards since the enemy is searching and the rally-maker is not spending resources defending the rally, like they might have done with a Fob.

PR 1.0 has boosted attackers a lot more than defenders with deviation and rally system..... It's rather boring to defend a flag for a long time and now you have to spend ressources searching while still remain undetected on a location that the enemy know your at... Seems more like you have to sacrifice 1 or 2 guys for rally hunting and leave the other 6 to hide on the flag and hope that they can keep out-number the enemy's which it basically has come down to with the quick aim.

The defender rally is the first rally to go down for sure also...

This
Hits
The nail
on the
Head

To respond to what someone was saying 2 pages ago, something about setting the rallies back to .98 style would reduce the action too much.

Don't forget that there's another 36 players per server, that'll have a lot to do with said action.

Don't revert rallies back to how they were in 0.98. Defending a FOB for three hours is mind numbingly boring, as is walking for half an hour back to the front line. If you want to be bored out of your skull go and play ARMA. In the past (before 0.98 ) PR was an amazingly fun, well paced teamwork based game, not a military simulator. It needs to be this way again, otherwise the game will continue to lose players.

Keep the new rally system, don't go back to slow as molasses FOB based gameplay.

Never bring up "Project Reality loosing players" as a way to support your argument, FH2 has action oriented gameplay, and barely has any populated servers left.

This mod is called project reality for a reason, if you want a meatgrinder go play Planetside 2.

I also dislike the RP system.
It makes Air trans and logistics much less needed, while that is a vital part of combined arms warfare which is what PR is striving to recreate.
I was very excited for the new FOB mechanics but FOBs are rarely built now, especially on 2km maps.

I agree with most people here. The new system makes people less afraid of dying. So the game turns into BF3.

To balance this, why not make rallypoints only spawnable when the squadleader is directly next to it ? (and maybe with a soldier, too ?)

I also liked the idea of Rallypoints only being allowed in the vicinity of a Firebase.

I like Paradox's idea, make rallies permanent but require a squad leader and two soldiers around to be used, as soon as the squad moves on the rallies disappear

Tbh I actually love that idea

That system would be very similar to the old.

I think thats what most of us want

Bluedrake42 wrote:I think thats what most of us want

I dont think so.

Give the new system time and try to get some strategys against it (tryed to move towards the most likely position of enemy rallys in some sort of spaced line formation to cover a bigger area)

Also its BETA for a reason! To test out if it works like intended or not.
They are already adjusting it. Frome the last patch notes:

Updated rallypoint overrun distance to be 2.5x larger (25m, 50m, 100m for 1km, 2km, 4km).

Its true that your less dependent on logistics and transport now and the issue with people giving up faster is also a problem.
But I trust that the devs will get a good solution for it.
(And the 0.98 system wasnt perfect. Most of the time the team with better trans/FOB organization won. Not the team with the better tactics.)