Project Reality Forums

*NwA*Orford wrote: Every one used to like different roles and like doing different thing. Now its about kill kill kill.

Sad really,

Now lets sit down for a second and find parallels to the recent gameplay changes that seem to have caused this mindchange. As said gameplay quality is directly connected to the people who are being encouraged in their way of gaming by the patches. And the target audience of these is obviously not the same as 2 years ago anymore.

(1+ Orford)

I often end up being the only guy defending or building fobs for the team for whole fucking rounds. Also i do like all the assets and the only reason im playing pr that much is because im not totally bad at it. I wouldnt be playing if i`d still get owned all the time. So its about kills for me aswell.

But somehow its true, people dont give a shit about fobs and defense anymore. They dont give a shit about the team. I think its also because of the 100 player server (i luv them tho, dont change). Single squads feel like "hey theres still 42 other guys in the team"...

Though I dont think it is because they want to get kills since i dont believe theyre able to shoot properly at all. I think most players try to avoid fighting at flags tbh since it can be very painfull to get rekt by a defending team. Thats why you often see whole 8 manned squads way off flags.

I believe most squadleaders have no clue what theyre doing, thats the problem. But they all think theyre born leaders and wont listen to any advice at all - even though their squads are doing bad pretty much everytime. But they wont even dare to think about their own actions, im pretty sure they all believe its just about these "bad random players" or "the rest of the team" or balance or whatever.

Theres also a thread about this but the thingy is, some people that are moaning there might not be any better themselves tbh. Thats why theres also no teamplay anymore, leaders caring about their own squadshit only.

And when you start telling people to defend or to build fobs they will get mad. Because they KNOW theyre awesome and WHO IS THIS GUY TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO FFS. I bet some of you forum guys will already get mad about my post.
But theres always something you can get better at.

We simply lack of good squadleaders that show other people how to play on a daily basis. Also its a game, so many players are into this milsim kinda thing and just try to survive as long as possible - no matter wether theyre losing or winning. And dont give a shit about the survival of the team. Thats not helpfull in a fps game imo.

Trying to get a lot of kills is a good thing though imo. The team that takes the most enemy tickets (by capping or killing doesnt matter) will win. Sometimes people say i shall go and play cod or im a noob because im just trying to cause a lot of damage to the enemy team while not caring about my or my whole squads deaths (Spook has been doing the exact same thing tbh). Its totally fine tho as long as you take more than you waste. Winning proofs.

Difficult topic here. But i know the general feeling although im totally different kind of player.

I think the "game" part and the having fun attitude is just gone. I cant understand that noone is seeing this. Youre thinking in the wrong direction. Everything is too much of a game for you guys, you even want it more "realistic" and slow paced. Although you miss the "roleplay" and "having a good time" part. Dont be so serious about it, its ever been and will always be just a game.

So many people say PR 0.5x-0.8x was best. Back in those days it was just battlefield 2 with some changes, you couldnt even talk to other people. Think about it.

It is possible that you all who get the "PR burnout" played for too long .
Thanks to Afghanistan I had a 6 month break of any internet gaming and I still absolutely enjoy PR.
Of course often enough you get frustrated (especialy if you squadlead or do commander) but it isn't worse then it was ever before. You have more then 70% of the players talking, which isn't to be expected on puplic servers.
My problem always where clans (no offense) because they seem to always do "their thing" and it was the reason why I was in a clan only for a short time. But PR can only be REAL fun if the whole team works toghether.
And THIS happens a lot more the in 0.7, 0.8 or even 0.9 because there it took even more effort to get something organized or does nobody remember the pre-mumble era? All you could hope on Teamwork there was squadteamwork with between 2-4 guys only using voip.

To clear up a small point regarding clans, my opinion comes from being a pubber. I was a founding member of *NwA* but I left *NwA* midway through last year. I haven't requested my forum name be changed yet, I've been meaning to get it done.

Although as clan members leave for other games or just drift away. The times when just 3 member would be on a server and just give it enough team work happen less and less. Now its 2 clans v 2 clans and a few pubbers. As with clans they want to win as a big front line fighting force. NO one wants to be flag defending of fob making. They all want to be known as the best attacking clan.

It is hard to call and thinking about it every point has an equally valid counter argument. I have had them arguments myself writing my posts. Only expressing my judgment once I've looked at it from both sides.

My conclusion, there are fewer players that also look at it from both sides and adjust there playing style to best meet the outcome of the round and to the enjoyment of all players, to achieve a good game for all. Now its tipped in the balance of the players who like a good fire fight 100% of the time.

Teamwork levels can be determined on the balance of the two playing styles currently on the server.

The question should be......

What should be done to tip the scales back the other way?

Whenever I play with my clan no matter what the situation is we still try to cooperate with different squads which will also be clan only squads. Most of the times they communicate back but sometimes they do not respond at all which gets very frustrating. I mean e.g. on Muttrah my squad goes for WCC and I tell all the other SL's so they can stay in NC to defend. But then in the next two minutes the whole team is flanking or attacking and NC is empty of friendlies.

*NwA*Orford wrote: As with clans they want to win as a big front line fighting force. NO one wants to be flag defending of fob making. They all want to be known as the best attacking clan.

The only sqds I see defending properly are ALWAYS clan squads. I rarely ever see a whole pub squad staying at one objective for more than 10 minutes.

*NwA*Orford wrote: My conclusion, there are fewer players that also look at it from both sides and adjust there playing style to best meet the outcome of the round and to the enjoyment of all players, to achieve a good game for all. Now its tipped in the balance of the players who like a good fire fight 100% of the time.

I think building fobs just takes a few minutes and defending doesnt mean being bored. If youre not getting shot at or arent shooting at something youre doing it wrong imho. A good team has everyone on the frontline pretty much all the time. Just dont camp in a building and wait to get easy kills. You can also defend offensively. Its usually more successfull aswell tbh.
Unless youre the awesome milsim guy who wants to survive the whole round and not win the match.

I truly dont understand why everyone thinks being stationary is the best option to defend a flag. Never seen that working for a long time. It doesnt even work out in t buildings, Spook. We both know at some point you cant hold it anymore.

Spook wrote:The only sqds I see defending properly are ALWAYS clan squads. I rarely ever see a whole pub squad staying at one objective for more than 10 minutes.

Like I said, every point has a counter point. My recent experience has been a **** measuring contest. I agree there may been other times I've missed as I don't play much any more. I've Just based my opinions on the times I have played, which indeed would be a small % of the total amount of rounds played. Never the less my want to play PR has dropped because of those experiences.

Spook wrote:The only sqds I see defending properly are ALWAYS clan squads. I rarely ever see a whole pub squad staying at one objective for more than 10 minutes.

+99 TO DA MAX

Headless86 wrote:
I truly dont understand why everyone thinks being stationary is the best option to defend a flag. Never seen that working for a long time. It doesnt even work out in t buildings, Spook. We both know at some point you cant hold it anymore.

But the team has to have squad leaders with squad members, who in their mobility also have the gear available to put the shifter into RETREAT AND DEFEND.

*NwA*Orford wrote:But the team has to have a squad or have squad leaders with squad members, who in their mobility also have the gear available to put the shifter into RETREAT AND DEFEND.

Yes, sometimes its the only option. But usually you cant defend much longer anyway at this point.

Spook wrote:The only sqds I see defending properly are ALWAYS clan squads. I rarely ever see a whole pub squad staying at one objective for more than 10 minutes.

I agree.
When I was SLing public squads, it was nearly impossible to make people set up somewhere and just hold there for a couple of minutes. You can try anything, rotating people that cover stairs, micro-managing every position etc.. There will always be some people who just run off to the action or just leave the squad to find the action elsewhere. Can't do much about it.

.. there can be so much joy in defending T-Shapes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbb8hn1ZdPc

It can't always be someone else's fault. The game is what you make it.

Nate(GER) wrote:I agree.
When I was SLing public squads, it was nearly impossible to make people set up somewhere and just hold there for a couple of minutes. You can try anything, rotating people that cover stairs, micro-managing every position etc.. There will always be some people who just run off to the action or just leave the squad to find the action elsewhere. Can't do much about it.

.. there can be so much joy in defending T-Shapes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbb8hn1ZdPc

Thats why i say move out and have some fun. Take out offensive fobs and go towards attacking enemy. If shit hits the fan start diggin in somewhere and call for help. People wont run off when under fire.

Its just difficult to do that if you have some clanfriends in the squad. Because they usually dont want to get raped just because some guys cant focus on something for a single minute. Thats a reason why most clansquads dont let pubbies in. Some cant spot/shoot for shit nor do they cover things properly. Give them AR and they will run in circles, never even trying to get accurate before shooting. One guy fails and everything goes to shit for the others. Then they will leave your squad after some while because they get bored and disappointed because of getting killed all the time.

For me, it is what time you play PR. For me I noticed mid-week games are best for teamwork in late mornings and evenings. Fridays are always screw around lonewolf day. Saturday picks up, and for Sunday afternoon, teamwork picks up.

Another is the squad you are in. If they talk regularly, then you most likely have a good squad.

Speaking of talking squads, we need servers demanding VoIP like they did when mumble was not integrated yet. If you don't have a mic well their is a good $8 mic made by Logitech. If we do not have a server that demands VoIP teamwork, then it is our duty as veteran PR players to encourage teamwork. This game is the best with teamwork.

I'm a bit new so I think I've noticed what you guys are talking about with the oldschoolers just getting a bit soured out on things, new users playing it like they're playing BF2, and then people like me who want to learn and are into teamwork but tend to slow down more experienced players. Both the noobs and vets tend to get impatient... I mean, what if we were actually in combat and someone's trying to figure out their iron sights... it's bound to impact morale.

Thanks for posting this stuff, it takes some courage to reach out and try to build teamwork but it's awesome how well it works, when it does work. A bit of conversation can turn the whole game around... suddenly everyone has a target and everyone's back is covered and the ticket loss slows down, it rules.

22cal wrote:Speaking of talking squads, we need servers demanding VoIP like they did when mumble was not integrated yet. If you don't have a mic well their is a good $8 mic made by Logitech. If we do not have a server that demands VoIP teamwork, then it is our duty as veteran PR players to encourage teamwork. This game is the best with teamwork.

Yes, I agree! Why did they remove that?

Ason wrote:Yes, I agree! Why did they remove that?

What's good about Voip? It's low quality.
What's wrong with Mumble?

I don't get it

Careless wrote:What's good about Voip? It's low quality.
What's wrong with Mumble?

I don't get it

I mean the servers don't have that "mumble required" icon(headphones) in the server list.
I haven't played that much since 0.98 but it feels like servers don't require you to have mumble and a mic anymore, my mumble haven't worked since like 1.1 but I still have not been kicked the few times I played.

You can play offense defensively.

Especially in CQB and long range areas. You always have a line of defense. (Preferbally AR and Marksman Covering. Then the 4 guys move up slowly.


But I do feel that pubbies do get annoyed when staying in same area. So I tend to usually say...

BillyBob are you decent w/ TOW?
BB: Yes
Me: Switch with JimmyJohn on the tow, Jimmy John go to BillyBob's last asset. (HMG)


Sometimes, I have a Grunt scout about 50-100m Around our perimeter. (Sometimes I have a Engineer go w/ him, but depends on the map of course)

I remember on Bijar Canyons about 2 weeks ago.
I had a squad of 6, (I kicked 2 cause they were derping around and not listening to me and not bowing down to me.)

I can't remember their names... but we were "defending" Alkomin, but we had a very good eye over it. Ended up as top squad. Killed ~30 men as a total squad. Really boosted our teams confidence when I said: Everyone move up, we have this covered, but if we need help. APC's bring back to Alkomin.

SM1: Manned the TOW
SM2: Manned the AA
SM3: HMG1
SM4: HMG2
SM5: Was in a foxhole, had Marksman Kit, scouting our area.
Me: I was SQL of course, was overwatching the area closely.

We almost had a bomb fall on us, but funny... the MiG's bomb hit the other mig, so it tked the mig. I laughed so hard. I nearly broke my Ipod from laughing and pounding so hard on my desk. my squad was one of the best pubbies squad I had. They did good, who ever you guys are.

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