Project Reality Forums

Acecombatzer0 wrote: My main point is it is unrealistic to use a Hellfire missile or a full salvo of hydras on one infantry as I have seen countless times in PR.

Acecombatzer0 wrote:
My main point is it is unrealistic to use a Hellfire missile or a full salvo of hydras on one infantry as I have seen countless times in PR. Munitions should be used more wisely as infantry have that risk all the time. (Should I use the HAT or save it for later?)

If possible Mats391, can you move this to a feedback or a suggestion thead so we don't derail the original discussion?

Im sorry but you are Wrong, just watch Apache gun cam from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Russia has deployed intercontinental bomber and are bombing insurgents with intercontinental balistique missiles same for france and USA.

French Tiger have used Air-2-Air missiles in air to ground mode against toyotas...

Millitary doenst real care about money but about the mission. And they will use what ever they have at their disposal.




Envoy? de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

'[F|H wrote:Zackyx;2118737']Im sorry but you are Wrong, just watch Apache gun cam from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Russia has deployed intercontinental bomber and are bombing insurgents with intercontinental balistique missiles same for france and USA.

French Tiger have used Air-2-Air missiles in air to ground mode against toyotas...

Millitary doenst real care about money but about the mission. And they will use what ever they have at their disposal.

America is shooting intercontinental missiles at ISIS? Source? Cruise Missiles don't count. France doesn't have any bomber planes

Even so, these "Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles" or whatever you want to call them are targeting key ISIS targets, not one person.

I'm ok with Hellfires being used against Toyotas, as they are one the biggest threats in an Insurgency theater of operations. Project Reality is mostly about hypothetical World War III

And the mission matters, correct. So using a Hellfire to kill one infantry guy to boost your imaginary K/D ratio while an enemy tank is killing friendlies is completing the mission?

'dalianplant[x64 wrote:;2118736']

What? I never said CAS is OP, I'm actually for buffing CAS overall

at least in my opinion, the issue is that the AA is not to CAS what TOWs are to tanks.

what the fuck is the issue with AA kits? Point and shoot, skill required 0. Like come on? If you die it's because you were stupid and thought that CAS heli couldn't see you on the open field.

seriously dont change anything !

it's good now and leave it as it is ! we got used to it so there is no reason to fuk it up !

like jeez we talked about missile turn rate and it went to increasing reload time !

wtf

Jacksonez__ wrote:what the fuck is the issue with AA kits? Point and shoot, skill required 0. Like come on? If you die it's because you were stupid and thought that CAS heli couldn't see you on the open field.

Maybe you go 3 pages back where the AA does a 120? turn like 3 meters before it hits the helo. Happens all the time and makes it impossible to count on AA missiles(vehicular, stationary or handheld) in any reliable fashion. Maybe the average CAS pilot can be shot down with AA like 70% of the time, I don't have any statistics on that, but once you pair good pilots with UAV it becomes a different story, and then another if you pair up even better pilots with UAV and some boots on the ground as well - the way Virus describes their Pre-CAS-rape preparations. That's when you start to see "magic" happening and your AA network, however thick or thin, becomes virtually useless against the one thing that it's supposed to put a dead stop to. That needs some kind of addressing and it doesn't matter whether it's 5, 15, 50 or 500 people who have the capacity to exploit this. I can relate to you guys feeling "we get nerfed cuz we good", but that's not the case. Stuff gets changed because you exploit it to extreme ends.

I dont think its exploiting when you use the CO UAV and spotters on the ground. Thats actually teamwork, very milsim

They nerfed CAS because they couldnt work out a proper AA system, but thats the wrong direction.
Make CAS faster, increase the splash damage and turn rate of missiles BUT make a proper AA system.
If CAS flies torwards you while shooting AA, it has to die if the pilot cant dodge the missile. Reduce flare amount.

Frontliner wrote:Maybe the average CAS pilot can be shot down with AA like 70% of the time, I don't have any statistics on that, but once you pair good pilots with UAV it becomes a different story, and then another if you pair up even better pilots with UAV and some boots on the ground as well ...

But isn't that with any asset? I've seen people get over 100 kills in APCs, Tanks and even CROWS humvees.

fecht_niko wrote:I dont think its exploiting when you use the CO UAV and spotters on the ground. Thats actually teamwork, very milsim

Spotters on the ground are fine because the enemy has time to prepare for it, vehicles can drive away quickly if necessary, etc. You cannot outrun the UAV. You cannot hide from it, especially since emplacements are so visible in the FLIR. And if the enemy CO plays his UAV smartly he can use the RTBing and rearming time of the CAS to recall the UAV and bring it back in once CAS is moving into striking position.

While - I guess - that works for the teamworking aspect of the game, it completely nullifies any semblance of static AA defense which in turn makes it very hard to deal against any semi decently skilled UAV/CAS combo because all that's left are manpads and friendly CAS(which is priority target for your CAS so the CO will be trailing it).

They nerfed CAS because they couldnt work out a proper AA system, but thats the wrong direction.
If CAS flies torwards you while shooting AA, it has to die if the pilot cant dodge the missile. Reduce flare amount.

I'm more inclined to believe that the engine behaves in such a way that it leaves these bugs wide open and it's not up for Mats or anyone else to code it any different way without breaking something else, leaving another set of bugs open in which the missile doesn't work as intended. I'm guessing they are always up for solutions but as it stands the BF2 engine is being duct-taped all over and most will have to live with some approximations here and there for the sake of balance.

But isn't that with any asset? I've seen people get over 100 kills in APCs, Tanks and even CROWS humvees.

True, but CAS is fast and mobile and very few assets have a decent chance of killing it in the first place resulting in a relative state of invulnerability once you know where the counters are. That's why it's so frustrating that most factions only have 2 manpads and FOB emplacement missiles on CAS maps. The 2 Manpads are usually not where the CAS is. The emplacements can be seen from CO UAV, same with vehicular AA. But even if CAS get's spotted it's possible they don't get hit if the AAs go for the flares. A TOW missile on the other hand does not get diverted by Tank smoke.

Frontliner wrote:And if the enemy CO plays his UAV smartly he can use the RTBing and rearming time of the CAS to recall the UAV and bring it back in once CAS is moving into striking position.

I don't wanna get into this whole circlejerk but just wanna say that this isn't true. It takes over a minute to move the UAV to a relevant place and it costs lots of fuel. If you would keep doing that every time CAS has to RTB you would run out of fuel extremely fast.

Frontliner wrote:Stuff gets changed because you exploit it to extreme ends.

"exploit it to extreme ends"

"exploit"

Getting good is exploiting.

Skill is exploiting.


ok




Literally calling better teamwork on our side exploiting right now. You people have no limits when it comes to grasping at straws do you lol? Get an effin grip please. Or if there's some magical way we're exploiting CAS do elaborate more, otherwise you're full of it.

Also, read stompa's post frontliner. Returning UAV and redeploying it like you said doesn't work. It takes 10 minutes to return the UAV to main, refuel a sufficient amount, and then redeploy. 15min if you refuel it completely, so no, you cant just swing it around as you mentioned.

And for the sake of the thread please think out your arguments before you post them.

Right now there seems to be very little of that going on. You may hate CAS, but making retarded arguments to try to get it nerfed is probably not the best way to go.

STompa wrote:I don't wanna get into this whole circlejerk but just wanna say that this isn't true. It takes over a minute to move the UAV to a relevant place and it costs lots of fuel. If you would keep doing that every time CAS has to RTB you would run out of fuel extremely fast.

I haven't been UAV-ing in the longest time ever, but since the UAV recall does not cost you any fuel you'll gain more fuel no matter what. And when friendly CAS is done rearming you can sent the UAV out. Admittedly I have the INS 2.0 values in my head and I've never played it out like that, maybe I'll give it a shot in the next few days.
Point is however, CAS is in the air, UAV has scouted things out. Correct or incorrect?


@Virus

1 guy in UAV and 2 guys in the CAS does not equal a team. Just yesterday I got exactly zero intel from Stompa(nothing against you mate) who was UAV-ing that was directed at me personally discounting 1 marker when I was afk. And it's not as if I was being far and removed from the fight. You call that teamwork, eh?

If Inf scouts something that can kill it, they duck and run for cover, if Tanks knows there is a TOW they hold back, if CAS knows there is an AA emplacement they ask people to laze it. Literally nothing wrong here

Refuel from 0 takes 100%/0.2%(INS 2.0 values!)=500 seconds. Not even 10 minutes. But that's only the case when you're completely dry. Let's assume a 2 minute flight time, 6 minutes of loitering, then a recall:
0.2x60=12%
0.1x18=18%
Total 30%

Down to 150 seconds refuel time(+90 seconds of start/landing). Not sure who said it, but somebody was talking about 8 minutes of time in between RTB and on flight altitude near the objectives. Discounting travel time we're 4 minutes. Lots of time for the UAV to get into position. But alas, I'll do you the favour and try it out sometime, no biggie.


Edit: Oh, and where am I saying that CAS/you/someone's grandma should get nerfed?

Taking advantage here is being talked about aav's , as like some tunguska and type 95 are endowed with an Early warning radar , it would be interesting to add this feature to these vehicles, scaled way to game scales? It would even be possible utilise as a command vehicle for small IADS , and is what i imagine for falklands frigate too.

Frontliner wrote:I haven't been UAV-ing in the longest time ever, but since the UAV recall does not cost you any fuel you'll gain more fuel no matter what. And when friendly CAS is done rearming you can sent the UAV out.

Erhm..moving the UAV from main to any relevant part of the map costs shitloads of fuel. I don't get why you even talk about this and pretend to know how it is when you obviously haven't tried doing UAV recently. Would also be impossible to time with cas rtb...

Frontliner wrote: 1 guy in UAV and 2 guys in the CAS does not equal a team. Just yesterday I got exactly zero intel from Stompa(nothing against you mate) who was UAV-ing that was directed at me personally discounting 1 marker when I was afk. And it's not as if I was being far and removed from the fight. You call that teamwork, eh?

I gave intel when it was needed like marking the full squads. But obviously gotta prioritize helping the APC's and CAS and not spam inf squads defending a T-shape with useless bs. Markers help more if you pay attention.

Why are you even dragging me into this bs

Math is Math. So unless they altered the fuel consumption the numbers hold up. I'm testing it in due time, no biggieeeeeee.


I'm stopping already lol. I know you were keeping tabs on them, just saying that I had very little verbal input from you over the course of the round.

Frontliner I think you probably haven't done CAS lately since taking out an AA isn't exactly that easy and emplacements in FLIR aren't really easy to spot as well.

Even if you know exactly where it is you can't keep your aim at it while going for it because of the view distance and when you get in the view range you are going to need at least 2-3 seconds to find it if it is in an open area which is more than enough time to get locked on and killed, especially since AA can see the lockbox a bit before you can see them and doesn't need any skill to actually aim at you or look for you in the air. Further on, you'll need to achieve a direct hit with a hellfire in order to destroy your target which won't be an easy task if the pilot is not steady or evading AAs. The only time this can work out good is when someone on the ground can give you an accurate laze and guide you to attack from a direction the AA gunner isn't covering which I don't see anything wrong with.

And no, tanks do not back off when there's a TOW and wait for someone else to take it out. They either wait for him to miss or change position and take it out because they need only a second to shoot at it while it takes some time for the TOW to hit them, especially if there's a larger distance between them.

I'm just saying that every asset can be OP as fuck or shit as fuck which is all depending on the crew but people seem to hate on CAS the most because its not as easy to get more than 20 kills with it as it is with a tank or an APC. Get a piece of paper and write down armor kills and CAS kills over the course of a couple of rounds and you will see what I'm talking about.

All the guys talking about nerfing CAS should do atleast 5 successful rounds (anything above 35 kills) first and after finishing that (assuming it wont take alot of time since you are all very experienced and have a strong opinion about it) come back here and talk again.
Achieving any of the things stated in this thread has 2 ways.
1.Very hard work in terms of spotting/talk between pilot/gunner/spotter/commander; flying/gunning/looking around as pilot/gunner.Very good timing when lazing from commander UAV (only when the helicopter crew is OTW to target)
2.Playing against absolute retards which is the case usually in this game.

So if it fair to nerf/remove CAS and buff AAs every patch, just because:
a) Some people are really GOOD at what they are doing.
b) Some people are RETARDED.

I personally see no issue with the UAV. Especially paired with CAS choppers. I think the jets benefit more from it as they can actually utilize the rather inaccurate CO lases. Anyway if some of you think the UAV is still too strong, make a separate thread about it.
Renamed thread to better fit discussion

My only want is for cas choppers to work in a realistic fashion.

Rabbit wrote:My only want is for cas choppers to work in a realistic fashion.

Me too i wish i could fly outside AA envelope and shoot targets 7km away...