Project Reality Forums

Buttermilch25 wrote:Buttermilch25

Read the rest of the discussion in this thread and you will see why that is significant to what the OP was saying...

transpilot wrote:Is this a frontliner doesnt accept critic thread?

2. Gpmg has be point accurate with the first 5 bullets, now only the first bullet hits

3. Its still a game and not a rl simulation so pls dont come with Bundeswehr doktrines

Guns create groupings, apply vibration to barrel plus the recoil bounce it happens. The farther target it the more the burst of varying deviated bullets go apart in grouping. Its like a shotgun pattern with 5 bullets. Baseball size close and basket ball size farther spread, after that buckshot loses travel energy to spread to a wider pattern, it drops together spreading out further. But machine gun bullets keep on going to widen the spread they are traveling together. .

Modern German doctrine was developed from American 1980s well established doctrine which was a mix of World War 2 American and German doctrine. Suppression, movement, armor, speed. Americans teach the Bundeswehr soldiers. Blitz Krieg tactics with a whole brigade of modern gear on wheels made to counter everything. Anti Air vehicle to cover tanks/APCs from air assets, CRAM to shoot down rockets, artillery, mortars, early warning UAV scouting perimeter. Un-touchable with an overwhelming amount of assets to kill that can defend their entire force and attack under many heavy threats in a breach of obstacles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFLF300I0ps

Modern day BLITZKRIEG --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ-sCT_ ... =27&t=193s

Grump/Gump.45 wrote: Modern German doctrine was developed from American 1980s well established doctrine which was a mix of World War 2 American and German doctrine.

No.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:Americans teach the Bundeswehr soldiers.

Lol, no.

Frontliner wrote:Lol, no.

He is actually getting better.

I'm not sure, but I think I would maybe like to close out a bar drinking beer with Grump/Gump. It would be really entertaining, I think...

Frontliner wrote:No.



Lol, no.

Yes and yes, 2 links to back up my point and history itself. Bundeswehr soldier being instructed on machine gun, the famous meme linked below. Plus many other joint NATO training exercises after WW2. From civilian to military sector after WW2 Germany was dependent on allies for many things including military re-form starting right after WW2 which included training/instruction. There have been many joint military exercises over the years German and US forces take part in, hosted by many countries. When becoming apart of NATO German Army needed to be introduced and learn to use the 12.7×99mm NATO M2 Browning .50 cal. Who do you think introduced this weapon to the Germans in more friendly manner? Who better than an American. It is the Americans teaching the Germans, my dad served in west Germany in the 1980s and said the same thing about German military depending on allied occupation for everything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFLF300I0ps

Americans quickly adopted the German Blitzkrieg tactics which was added right on to their suppression doctrine of moving forward. Germans inspired the speed of it in how fast their armor showed up and smashed **** around. American commanders wanted to do this but the allied tanks couldnt go as fast as German tanks so Allies had trouble mimicking the speed. Blitzkrieg is taking land fast with little opposition, then once opposition is hit its still Blitzkrieg but becomes a combat breach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ-sCT_ ... =26&t=486s

Going into WW2 the Americans by common sense knew to keep their assets together in the way they compliment each other, but going against the Blitzkrieg counter attacks against the Normandy invasion force. This required Americans and their allies to mimic these tactics of maneuver blitzing around each others line. In American football we call it blitz because its breaking through the lines to do destruction behind very fast. Once allies beat Germany and you became an ally too, we shared doctrines between US and German commanders basically debriefing each other after the war and how to jointly run security, quick reaction force to quell any fighting/un-rest that may arise. Could be against a dis-gruntled armed people or an entire nation, this is where German and American doctrine developed to maneuver modern combat since the end of WW2. Then we add whatever new inventions arise as a threat or weapon to help us add to this fast moving brigade concept like CRAM/CIWS to roll and move with it for security from artillery.

I'm not going to waste my breath on this one. What I'm referring to is the tactical direction of combat and organisational underbelly of both armed forces which is distinctly different and only shares basic commonalities. The Americans never told us how to conduct combat, in fact our combat doctrine is a mixture of lessons learned of previous wars as well as adopting doctrine to technological improvements as well as suiting said improvement to the need of the army.

... all this being said, I think it's tiem to get back to topic of deployed weapons in PR.

Tbh AR now feels terribly inacurate to the point I'm always avoiding this kit. Waiting for the gun to settle was painful, but current state feels way worse.

Its not about defending your effort frontliner we all appreciate it but now you need to adjust and build on your previous work to go towards something better.

Remeber those times when u could dolphine around corners with ar.

Buttermilch25 wrote:https://i.imgur.com/rfCG9Fk.mp4

Map is Beirut, 2km map, 1 square = 50m

I got constantly shot by that heavy AR for around 7-9 seconds on open ground without cover for me from around 50-60 meters distance.
Still I made it behind the building. I even got hit but still did not die, which means he was actually shooting at me.
I guess PR is now a roleplay game and I got +20 agility by wearing a grappling hook or how else could I have survived that encounter?

hmm he was still moving when he saw you, and then we also don't know if he just held LMB or fired bursts.

Buttermilch25 wrote: 50m

Deviation doesn't matter at that range

Buttermilch25 wrote:https://i.imgur.com/rfCG9Fk.mp4

Map is Beirut, 2km map, 1 square = 50m

I got constantly shot by that heavy AR for around 7-9 seconds on open ground without cover for me from around 50-60 meters distance.
Still I made it behind the building. I even got hit but still did not die, which means he was actually shooting at me.
I guess PR is now a roleplay game and I got +20 agility by wearing a grappling hook or how else could I have survived that encounter?

Exactly...

Buttermilch25 wrote:https://i.imgur.com/rfCG9Fk.mp4



how else could I have survived that encounter?

It is a mix of that players inaccuracy, holding down the mouse button to fire and harmonic vibrations. The devs may know this as "recoil, weapon sway" or just understanding the firearm vibrates. I appreciate their realism. It happens with sniper rifles even firing one round, sniper rifles tuned to have a high rigidity to reduce the amplitude of vibrations at anti-node zones so the bullet is un-affected as it leaves the barrel. Now apply this science to a machine gun and you will get the answer why you survived at 50 Meters. Mix of bad aim, leading, deviation, not using bursts to keep small cone of fire. Sniper 101 lesson on Harmonics in rifles ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h407yVs ... Un&index=7

Slight movement of half centimeter of barrel vibration or weapon sway < will send bullets farther off to the side of the target the further it is away, so this sends the bullet further off the side of you. Its how you survived. This game does have grazing wounds that seem to take 1% of health not leaving you bleeding, I tested it on people close up to see if they bleed. A stationary clamped gun firing at a fixed aimed distance can measure its groups in minute of angle to show deviation without any movement, there is 60 minutes of angle between 1 degree on a compass.

1 MOA at 100 yards equals 1.047 inches, at 200 yards it equals 2.094 inches (2 x 1.047). To calculate MOA at any distance, multiply 1.047 by the distance in yards and divide by 100. MOA is measured by the distance between where 2 bullets hit using these conversions with caliper dials. 1 MOA is approx 1 inch(1.047) group, .5 MOA at 100 yards will shoot half inch groups based off data for that scope, rifle and caliber. Change any of those factors with a clamped gun you get different results. Put that gun into a humans hands when fighting bullets fly everywhere, there ya go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oiy5Rc ... i&index=13

100 meters with clamped gun will get you 0.1-0.5 MOA difference in bullet hole grouping with a single direct barrel laser brass case bullet hole(brass case with laser pointer instead of bullet to see where barrel is directly pointed). Laser point, fire some rounds, put the laser case back in gun, measure where bullets hit from barrel point of aim.

If you get 0.5-1.0 MOA deviation at 100 meters check measurements at 200 meters zeroed, might be more like 07.-1.2 MOA grouping out of the same fixed point. You can be just as accurate as 100 meters at 200 meters but this is where all factors of vibration, harmonics, bullet rise, chamber temperature, time a powder propellant heats up in a chamber.

Buttermilch25 wrote:He held LMB.

So a moving AR sighted when he saw you and held down the trigger and shot around you? That makes sense to me.

Also feel I should add- AR feels fine to me, better even, than it did previously. You're still fairly accurate if you let off 3-4 round bursts, definitely enough to take someone's head off if you're waiting for everything to settle before firing. If you need to suppress someone, let more bullets off at a target. If you're trying to kill, burst. You cannot hold the trigger down and expect to get kills handed to you when you're farther than spitting distances and that's good.