There are way too many noob tubers

Post by **IronTaxi** » 2007-03-21 10:34

yeah well we will all have to wait adn see what happens...sandy&ada...why arent you guys testers? you spend enough damn time here you might as well make yourselves useful...

bobfish · Post by **bobfish** » 2007-03-21 11:15

Well, I don't have a problem with the AT being used on Infantry.. I'm one of the people that does it.. just thought I'd point out why I use it on Infantry.

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-03-21 19:07

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']This is what we are hoping for in v0.6

In prone (a position that you would feasibly have a VERY difficult time in launching the grenade PERIOD) the grenade launcher will be extremely inaccurate, to the point of endangering your life and the life of your squad.

While strafing, same as above.

While crouched and motionless, dead on accurate.

While standing and motionless, very accurate.

This of course needs testing but these are the results we are hoping for.

The side strafing CQB grenadier, straight out of vanilla, IMO is one of the worst aspects right now in PR (yes worse than prone diving)

Hi Fuzz,

I'm not quite sure what you mean? Nade launchers work well in the prone postion, and it can be reloaded while in the prone or just roll onto your side to reload. Use of the sights will be more accurate than hip shooting unless you spend a lot of time at the range getting good with the GL. This is a lobing weapon so there shouldn't be any danger of hitting the ground in front of you unless you are aiming at the ground. Max range is about 400 meters while an area target range is 350 meters. If I remember correctly at point target range is out to 150 or 200 meters. Sorry it's been while since I've fired the nade launcher

The quadrant sight mounted to the carrying handle is more accurate than the flip up sight crudely modeled ingame. Maybe that explains the crazy stuff that happens once in a while.

30 meters is the minimum safe range to engage. Seems like I remember someone saying that the rounds have to spin a certain amount of rpms before it arms. Don't flame cause I'm not real sure about that last part concerning the spinning of the nade from the tube. I just don't agree about the prone thing concerning nade launchers

Nade launchers should have nearly the same accuracy in all stances. A player shouldn't have to stand still for 10 seconds just to get off an accurate shot either. If I stand still for that long in game I'm usually knocked down my a sniper, or some guy with unbelievable accuracy with an assault rifle from 200 meters while he is strafing my area

I started this response to post about the prone thing, but it has seemed to spilled over into other areas concerning the nade launcher. Sorry

Later
R

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-03-21 19:10

When prone the GL is aimed up with the rifle butt in the ground, as if it were a mortar. So i've seen.

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-03-21 19:41

El_Vikingo wrote:When prone the GL is aimed up with the rifle butt in the ground, as if it were a mortar. So i've seen.

Yup. You are also correct as it can be viewed as a one man mini mortar. Now to a field full of mice, and other critters it may seem like full size artillery

Hehehe....

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-03-21 21:58

i think the launcher arms itself coming out of the barrel, as soon as its out its ready to go.

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-03-21 22:10

Sneak Attack wrote:i think the launcher arms itself coming out of the barrel, as soon as its out its ready to go.

The high explosive grenade has an effective casualty radius of 5 meters. The effective casualty radius is defined as the radius of a circle about the point of detonation in which it may be expected that 50 percent of exposed troops will become casualties. Safe-weapon practices for firing the M203 grenade launcher require a minimum safe distance of 130 meters for high explosive rounds, and 165 meters for HEDP. Range regulations stipulate that all targets have to be more than 200 meters away. The danger radius of the HE Grenades is 130 meters (427 ft). The M386, M397, M397A1, M406, and M433 rounds arm within 14 to 27 meters (46 to 89 ft). The M361 and M441 rounds arm within 2.4 to 3 meters (8 to 10 ft).

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-03-21 22:15

rico: yes obviously the grenade launcher can be aimed accurately in prone IRL.

The problem that is happening in game, is a player immediately jump prone, shoots the GL very close (under 20 meters) and its very accurate... that is not a good thing.

To fire safely the grenade launcher IRL, you need to be in prone position and very careful where you aim. You need to aim it accurately, and I very much doubt you could hit anything under 100 meters in a prone position, because of the need to aim up.

In a crouching or standing position, its easier to hit targets closer to you, as you can effectively 'aim down'.

In BF2, prone position for grenade launchers is just a way to abuse them.

But yes thanks for bringing up the point I hope we can make them work as close to real life as possible.

Right now they are used like CQB weapons (under 50 meters), which is as far from reality as you can get.... that is what we are trying to correct.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-03-21 22:18

you an make like the granades on the k98 in FH , long time to aim (maybe not too long

)

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-03-21 22:20

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']rico: yes obviously the grenade launcher can be aimed accurately in prone IRL.

The problem that is happening in game, is a player immediately jump prone, shoots the GL very close (under 20 meters) and its very accurate... that is not a good thing.

To fire safely the grenade launcher IRL, you need to be in prone position and very careful where you aim. You need to aim it accurately, and I very much doubt you could hit anything under 100 meters in a prone position, because of the need to aim up.

In a crouching or standing position, its easier to hit targets closer to you, as you can effectively 'aim down'.

In BF2, prone position for grenade launchers is just a way to abuse them.

But yes thanks for bringing up the point I hope we can make them work as close to real life as possible.

Right now they are used like CQB weapons (under 50 meters), which is as far from reality as you can get.... that is what we are trying to correct.

Oh I see, I wasn't aware that this was becoming such an issue in game. I haven't been able to play much in the last 3 weeks. In the last 3 weeks I've only been able to play about hour and a half total. I kinda forgot about the instaprone thing. I see your point now. I'll hush. Hehehe....

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-03-21 23:10

yea no worries rico thank you for your input, always great to get input from people who have used the equipment before

unforunately there is ALWAYS something that players find to exploit... but we are on the ball most of the time I think

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-03-22 15:40

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']unforunately there is ALWAYS something that players find to exploit... but we are on the ball most of the time I think

Yeah I think you guys are on the ball catching stuff. It's nice to see a place where the Devs pay attention to what is happening with there baby. Not like EA/DICE. Wish they would open up the code for BF2 and let the DEVs make a real solid game without all the hardcoded BS. I won't hold my breath though

R

Longbow* · Post by Longbow* » 2007-03-22 16:16

IMO there are more whinners then GL noobtubers ... nilla tactics don't work because if you shoot 2m close to yourself you insantly die ...

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-03-23 00:21

Longbow* wrote:IMO there are more whinners then GL noobtubers ... nilla tactics don't work because if you shoot 2m close to yourself you insantly die ...

Well that is stating the obvious isn't it. Of course there are more whiners then noobtubers.
The noobtubers aren't complaining cause they a having there cake and eating it too. So to speak. Same as the old M4 whores. Also I wouldn't say guys are "whining". I just think a lot of guys feel that the game as become a bit noobish since the v0.5 came out. Me included, but I know the Devs are working on restoring PR to it's HARDCORE realism self.
I look at it like this, if you don't like realism, then PR is not for you. I'm not saying YOU specially. There MUST be a VERY wide line between BF2 and PR. Not a thin one. That's why the learning curve is steep. I say make it even steeper with more realism. Sorry off the soapbox.

I've got to stop doing that

R

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2007-03-23 01:14

At first, the "noobtoob" was my favorite weapon; it's like having a sniper rifle that shoots a 25-meter calibur bullet killing anything near it at any distance.

Recently, I switched to the rifleman kit for two reasons: First, the iron sight on the rifleman is FAR better than the grenadier. Second, and I think this gets to the heart of the issue, it single-handedly removes any skill or cooperation required to play the mod when it was the these very things that brought me to this mod in the first place.

That's all I have to say about that.

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2007-03-23 01:49

Wolfe wrote:it single-handedly removes any skill or cooperation required to play the mod when it was the these very things that brought me to this mod in the first place.

That's all I have to say about that.

You said a mouth full there brother. Preach on! Can I get an Amen!!! Hehehe...

russ555 · Post by **russ555** » 2007-03-23 09:34

damn this thread. after reading it a noticed and got p1ssed off by things id never noticed before on vanilla such as it raining nades damn that is annoying.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-03-23 12:39

Come on all happy campers, do not loose faith. If you are in a functioning squad, one smacktardian with a noobtube will not put a damper on your play. Not even a whole squad of them. Since they are all running around and, as my quote says so elegantly, "has the accuracy of a stormtropper".

(by the way, I belive that quote is from seeing the movies. Anyone who has read the books knows that they are elite and are not to be trifled with.)

Don't bunch up, give suppresing fire, ask the QM for some whiskey and have fun. Now, off you go to fuzzheads signup for the next squadleader practise.

JL · Post by JL » 2007-03-23 20:07

after reading this thread I decided to try the M203 out for a round.. and it is quite effective for groups of enemys or shooting into a narrow walkway between buildings.. I personally haven't had a problem with it in PR .5 ever, if you are putting yourself into situations that you are easily 'noob tubed' then you are going to get it.. so many people just ran around corners when i was using it and were left out of cover.. the M203 isn't the easiest thing to aim either.. I did make some low shots and gave my position away, had to retreat and wait to re-load or just switch to gun.. really don't see a reason anyone should make any changes to it, or complain about it

SignalSgt · Post by **SignalSgt** » 2007-03-23 22:22

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']This is what we are hoping for in v0.6

In prone (a position that you would feasibly have a VERY difficult time in launching the grenade PERIOD) the grenade launcher will be extremely inaccurate, to the point of endangering your life and the life of your squad.

That is not realistic, one of the posistions that we trained to use for the M203 is the prone supported position.

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/a ... m203.shtml

I use the 203 quite a bit, mostly because I carried the thing for 3 years. Once you figure out the elevation to target ratio one grenadier is lethal, as it should be. IMO there will always be calls to nerf the 203 because useing it as a shotgun or "noob tube" has no effect other then a respawn. Realisticly, you'd never fire it like that because the blast radius would wipe you and your fireteam out. No repercussions in the game other then negative points and your death to go with one more kill. The power and accuracy is just fine.