Project Reality Forums

hate? thats lil' strong!

After reading the posts from your CLANS forums I felt "icky". The opportunity for meaningfull dialougue was lost with totally inapproprite and often obscene posts from your membership. If anything, it has been an excellent opportunity for CDU to openly demonstrate the CDU character and underlining principles (or lack of).

PMEDIC

Yeah my clanmates don't take too well to people coming on our forums telling us how to run our servers. The time for meaningful dialogue came an went long ago when we had the 0.5 server up. I have offered numerous times to have a real conversation over TS or whatever medium and it is always ignored. Anytime I try and have an intelligent discussion on these forums they get locked. I understand it's a one sided fight over here. I don't really care how we are viewed within the PR community. It is no secret how most of you feel about us an what we do.

It can't be helped that most of my clan cannot take the PR devs serious when every chance they get they bash us. Some of our members have of course done the same many times over but it's the same dance everytime between our two sides. I wish I could have had a real conversation with egg months ago. Of course it degenerated into this stuff again and you all get to see how it plays out. If anyone else has anything they would like to discuss with me you can PM me here or on our forums. I don't really care to go back an forth on these forums again.

=CDU=Junkoe wrote:Yeah my clanmates don't take too well to people coming on our forums telling us how to run our servers.

hehe LOL. But somehow it's OK for you to tell me / us how you are going to run OUR software? When we put in place a licensing agreement, you will not have rights to do anything without our permission. I wanted to avoid this by simply having a reasonable discussion with you guys, but your attitudes are atrocious and your understanding of and respect for our work sadly lacking.

=CDU=Junkoe wrote:We will still run an 0.6 server though and the gameplay will be different.

You will not be granted a licence to run the server software. If you obtain one (eg masquerade as another person to obtain a licence) we will have rights to revoke the licence without notice.

If you circumvent the revocation measures, we will use any and all reasonable means to prevent use of the software by those wihout a licence.

=CDU=Junkoe wrote:Bring on the hate, I am used to it from you all by now.

I don't really care how we are viewed within the PR community.

And that would be the main reason why we will not be granting you a licence to run a server (modified or unmodified). You don't want to be a part of this gaming community, you want to gain some sort of personal attention out of going against our reasonable requests and have no interest in participating in the gaming community.

Your modding the content is one thing, but your attitudes are another. As a result you will not be granted the privilege to run our software.

"omg, Su spawnzorz forewah!! 20 min sux!!"

Seriously, that jet and A10 are lethal, you just have to utilize them, not "ok I ran outta ammo, ill crash, spawn in 10 seconds and a new one will be there for me"...

DVB-PARAMEDIC.CA wrote:I cannot say how dissapointing the gameplay was when those guys were around. Hopefully, they will find another mod that fits their style, soon.

In the meantime, I asked my squaddies to remember that these guys do not value or respect this community and to spread the word within the greater PR community of CDU's "perception" of PR gamers.

http://forums.dvbsquad.com/showthread.p ... 0#post6270

Go get em, eggman! The funny thing is, the feller who does most of the SSM's for CDU believes that he is a genius "moder" because he can "mod" the "mod", LOL! What ever! If changing numbers in a notepad file constitutes being a "moder" everyone would be one....lol!

CHeers,
PMEDIC

Im sorry, why u guy link to ur board and not directly to this clan CDU?
It has something like to promote own site of the cost from other people.

um... I am sorry, I made a mistake and I PM'ed to have it removed as I cannot edit my post long before your note...

"It has something like to promote own site of the cost from other people. lol... cost eh? ahqhahahhahaahahhaahahahahahahah, whatever.

No offense to the developers but I must agree with Junkoe opinion regarding server matters here. I don't know how server ownership works for mods but if they pay the upkeep should they not have the right to make some minor modifications? Yes a reduced 15-20 second spawn time does adjust the gameplay but not horribly. If they prefer to play that way without some additions they dislike (bonus spawn time when you die for example) why should we try to prevent that?

I hear the talk of "go find another mod with the gameplay you want" but the thing is you cannot just go out and get the perfect mod so easily. Is it really wrong to take the closest thing and adjust it for yourself and your friends? What if they just want something like PR "lite" with better med-kits and shorter spawn times?

Yes his clan may not be the most mature but I can understand some of Junkoe frustration.

Lampshade111 wrote:Is it really wrong to take the closest thing and adjust it for yourself and your friends? What if they just want something like PR "lite" with better med-kits and shorter spawn times?

Er.... you are not getting it. Our original perspective was that they can run the software in any configuration they like as long as that server has a password on it. They refused that (or are alluding to refuse that).

Lampshade111 wrote:I don't know how server ownership works for mods but if they pay the upkeep should they not have the right to make some minor modifications?

No they should not. What's to stop them from claiming that their version of PR *is* the "real" version?

We're naievely exposed to this because I like to think the world is mostly full of people who are fair and honest. To date with PR the vast majority of community members and server administrators are reasonable people. There is a vast minority that are unreasonable and these folks are in that category.

But we're having a licence agreement created for v0.6 that will basically enable us to decide "[font=&quot]at any time and for any reason, or no reason at all, and without notice" that we don't want people running our software. Supporting that we are putting in measures to enable enforcement of that, both inside and outside of the PR code. Hence the delay on the v0.6 release.

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Lampshade111 wrote:I hear the talk of "go find another mod with the gameplay you want" but the thing is you cannot just go out and get the perfect mod so easily.

Tell me about it. At 10,000+ collective man hours into PR I'm acutely aware of that. Riddle me this Batman... why should OUR efforts be allowed to be "re-interpreted" by someone to their own definition of "perfect mod" ?

To illustrate just how reasonable we are trying to be, we would ALLOW that interpretation as long as it is not broadly accessible to the general public (passworded server).

Lampshade111 wrote: Yes his clan may not be the most mature but I can understand some of Junkoe frustration.

How about you get this: We covered all of this in MARCH of this year AD NAUSEUM. We were CRYSTAL CLEAR in that with v0.6 we will NOT support any form of server side modding. We made a news announcement to that effect. And then we get this:

Junkoe wrote:I am sure we start a whole other shit storm again, but that is the dev's problem.

I want nothing to do with these immature people, their lousy attitudes and their lack of respect for the PR team and this community. It's all derived from what would appear to be some need for personal attention moreso than it is to play the mod.

How about we make them write MODDED in the server name or else you release the killer 0.6 virus that destroys their computers and burns down their homes?

Because we're past that now

Simply put, we are not going to grant them a licence to run the software. People can go all mentol about how we're draconian ******** when they read our licence agreement, but the reality is that in over a year of PR releases, we've NEVER had serious problems with any server administrators to the point where we would prevent them from using our software.

But we are going to change things to put ourselves in a position to be able to do so.

well i fully support the PR team in any legal issues they have regarding the SSM's

its just and is right when put in to the context of these moronic fuckwits

Yeah I am actually enjoying the beta. Everytime I play I think oh man this would be hella fun with lowered spawn times an what not. Even still though it is nice having that tactical element again, and the actual use of teamwork.

I was playin today for a good chunk of hours with a longtime PR guy as the squad leader and we tore some shit up and basically won the map for our team more then a few times. So just look forward to a PR instance on the bf2 server once the 0.6 version is officially released. I am sure we start a whole other shit storm again, but that is the dev's problem

and

Oh and if JP sees this, I AM SURE AS HELL GONNA HAVE MORE SNIPER KITS AROUND!!!!! Fucking life suckers!

do what you must Egg to stop this mess before it gets worse
and i appreciate your teams efforts in doing so.

Shame on the lamers! Those people completely destroy a community. It's a total disgrace, it's immature, disrecpectful, lame and stupid!

(...)

And pfffff, I laugh at them locking the thread, more proof of their stupidity!

(...)

If legal stuff is required, then so be it. I can wait a couple of more weeks for 0.6 to come out, not a problem at all.

(...) = stuff I'd rather not write. I could've used words that are way more offensive, but we are a mature community, for crying out loud!

I hate lawyers and legal documents. I've had to deal with lawyers plenty of times for all sorts of things including protecting my own intellectual property. Truth is, unless the offending (EULA violating) PR server is in the US, Europe or other intl. law-abiding country, there will be no legal recourse with regards to having them shut down.

Just as going after a Russian or Chinese business who is illegally producing your patented device is futile, so will trying to shut down a privately owned server in some backwater country result in wasted money. Its not gonna happen.

So I thought, what about the system that EA uses? Their method is to control the authentication process itself. For somewhat obvious technical reasons that is not feasible for a MOD without hacking DLL's etc. But the MOD itself...

If the server side code was not made available, but rather a stub provided (with all the heavy media) instead. This code would then be able to load in the required logic from a central server only if that IP was authorized...
So then you could have a master server sitting somewhere which would transfer the encoded python includes to only authorized parties. From what I have seen, the BF2.exe provides a fully-fledged pylib-2.3.4, with support for HTTP transfers and all that goodness.

Or, another idea. The Python files are provided as encrypted files that are only unlocked (decrypted to RAM) with a key provided to authorized servers, otherwise they are limited to 8 players or must be password protected.

Something like that. As I said - just some random thoughts that are probably sorely lacking in details.

@SykloAG, we have lawyers looking over the agreement now and they are fully aware on that sort of stuff, as is egg.

@ SkyloAG:

I have been given some very helpful advice in this process.

Rather than be in a position where we give away the software, then try and claim damages or the like as a result of copyright violation, we instead are going to use a system where the client license is requested and granted automatically during the client installation process. That is a use that does not service login and/or data requests from remote computers.

But to use the software as a server (wherever the code for those purposes comes from) will require a license application and granting process that will be facilitated through the PR website. That is a use that is intended to service login and/or data requests from remote computers.

Operation without a license constitutes unauthorized use. In the event of unauthorized use of the software we can use all reasonable measures to prevent the software from servicing login and/or data requests from remote computers.

We are building some things into PR to enable us to shut off a server as well as tools external to PR to disable servers not operating with a valid license.

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']@ SkyloAG:

I have been given some very helpful advice in this process.

Rather than be in a position where we give away the software, then try and claim damages or the like as a result of copyright violation, we instead are going to use a system where the client license is requested and granted automatically during the client installation process. That is a use that does not service login and/or data requests from remote computers.

But to use the software as a server (wherever the code for those purposes comes from) will require a license application and granting process that will be facilitated through the PR website. That is a use that is intended to service login and/or data requests from remote computers.

Operation without a license constitutes unauthorized use. In the event of unauthorized use of the software we can use all reasonable measures to prevent the software from servicing login and/or data requests from remote computers.

We are building some things into PR to enable us to shut off a server as well as tools external to PR to disable servers not operating with a valid license.

you guys should have the rights over your own development, and the ability to Stop people Messing with your hard Work.

keep it up - Heres to Keeping it "Real"

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino']@SykloAG, we have lawyers looking over the agreement now and they are fully aware on that sort of stuff, as is egg.

Its gone that far?
Isnt this costing anyone any money?

I support the DEVs full steam