Project Reality Forums

I think what might be a good compromise is perhaps if you replaced the mine weapon with a minefield sign and had it as a weapon of it's own, so you place a minefield marker and it's effectively works as 1 very very large mine. Not a great substitute for a proper minefield but it could work out, obviously you'd have to have a pretty long deploy time on something like that though. It seems like anything fancy is out of the question when it comes to this so that might be a half decent simple solution.

Tartantyco wrote:Ok, here's what I'm thinking:

^Mines are now invisible when placed on the ground
^Mine warning symbol(HUD and map) is visible to both sides
^Engineer gets a comm rose option to place a 'dummy' mine warning symbol(HUD)
^Engineer gets a comm rose option to place a 'safe' symbol(HUD)
^Mines do not disappear a while after the person placing it dies
^To place a minefield you need the CO to place a mine warning symbol(Map) and within a certain radius from it mines and 'dummy' mines can be placed(Limit the amount of symbols the CO can place)
^The time it takes to remove a mine/dummy is extended
^Any form of explosives will destroy a mine(Though this might be tweaked if the Spec Ops kit is too effective)

There are still a few things I have to figure out though:

1) You should be able to take out a mine with an AM weapon(Barrett .50 cal) but you should not be able to take it out with any other weapons of similar caliber because that would make minefields useless. A possible solution are to make it so that only the Barrett can destroy mines but I'm not sure if this can be done.

2) As the Engineer kit is already overloaded it will be hard to expand on that kit. Adding a new pick up kit should do, or the weapon swap thing from vBF2.

The new engineer kit should look something like this:
Knife
SMG available to that faction
AM weapon - Barrett .50 cal(It should be seriously nerfed though, having the same -or shorter- zoom as a rifleman, 5-10 sec aim tim before it will actually hit where you're aiming, etc. This way it should be useless against anything else, stopping any 'ZOMG 1337 snipaz' from using it)
Wrench
Smoke
Small shaped charge of some sort that can only take out mines(x Appropriate quantity)
Mines(x Appropriate quantity)



-I think that should be it actually. I had some more thing to add to the 'figure out' list but I eated(forgot) them...

I support this idea the mine truck and the deployable assit ideas the Dev should look into them.

Unfortunately the layers of ammo are pretty simplified, there's no way of making it so you only get specific kinds of ammo from certain sources, the most complex the team have managed to get it is splitting reloading into infantry/vehicle/air categories.

There's no way that an engineer would carry an anti material rifle either I wouldn't imagine, I know your suggesting it in a way that it can't be used against infantry but it's a bit silly still.

Something should be implemented, as it's useless to put mines one at a time, it takes too much time and nobody is doing it.
This should be SL requested, put on the ground and something the Engineer can set up.
This game needs minefields.

The maps at this moment are way to small for minefeilds, tanks/apcs/other vehicals find it hard enoguh already.

AnRK wrote:Unfortunately the layers of ammo are pretty simplified, there's no way of making it so you only get specific kinds of ammo from certain sources, the most complex the team have managed to get it is splitting reloading into infantry/vehicle/air categories.

I don't see where this has any relevance. Nothing I've suggested requires specific ammo reload.

There's no way that an engineer would carry an anti material rifle either I wouldn't imagine, I know your suggesting it in a way that it can't be used against infantry but it's a bit silly still.

That's where you're wrong. I was a Combat Engineer and we had a Barrett in each M113(We had 4 in our platoon). Military Engineers have just about the most varied equipment available to them than any other part of the military. You could put pretty much anything in an Engineer kit and it wouldn't be out of place.

killonsight95 wrote:The maps at this moment are way to small for minefeilds, tanks/apcs/other vehicals find it hard enoguh already.

There's no lack of room on any maps but a few INS maps and some Amphibious Assault maps.

Remoted-Bomb wrote:I have an additional idea. Why can't we have false minefields.

That is already part of the suggestion. The minefield itself would simply be a marked area on the map/minimap, the contents of the minefield are up to those placing mines.

Actual Suggestion thread on this found here.

nicoliani wrote:Something should be implemented, as it's useless to put mines one at a time, it takes too much time and nobody is doing it.
This should be SL requested, put on the ground and something the Engineer can set up.
This game needs minefields.

+1

i suggested exactly what you are suggesting last year. but at that time the SLs deployables were nothing near to the scope that they are at now. would be nice to have a small cluster of mines deployable. would be a lot easier to program in than building the TOW or recoiless rifle.

killonsight95 wrote:The maps at this moment are way to small for minefeilds, tanks/apcs/other vehicals find it hard enoguh already.

I disagree killosight! when i play insurgency (and that happens alot) i'am suck with the kiling blufors so i'get to mine laying and stick to it to the end of the round! sometimes when the squad get the feeling of making the blufors scared like hell to enter our areas they go with me and we usualy have a great time!

But i do agree that it is not realistic and deployed minefields will be much better! off course depending on the way its implemented!

Cheers...

It would be better if engineers and sappers could have a sign in their inventory that they place in order to display minefield locations, I agree with the purpose.



So now it will reduce TK's and also will restrict access for vehicles.

Tartantyco wrote:
That's where you're wrong. I was a Combat Engineer and we had a Barrett in each M113(We had 4 in our platoon). Military Engineers have just about the most varied equipment available to them than any other part of the military. You could put pretty much anything in an Engineer kit and it wouldn't be out of place.

I can vouch for that. I have seen what combat engineers bring into battle from slides our officers show us during presentations... U would be surprised on how much explosives and weapons they bring into the grind. The M82A1 was originally developed by the US Army for ordinance disposal back in the early 90s if I recall correctly.

So nice necro from March 09.

'= wrote:H[=Rissien;1505156']So nice necro from March 09.

Why you even bother to write that? It's still actual topic so it's better to discuss here and read suggestions and stuff than create new one...

'= wrote:H[=Rissien;1505156']So nice necro from March 09.

This topic was "necroed" because mining was brought up in another suggestion. Next time don't bother posting or you'll get an infraction.


Personally, I'd love to see a workable mining method. I think that having a deployable could work, but if the mines were set up as a plane you could easily have floating mines, mines buried too far to be useful, etc. I think it'd be better to have a vehicle weapon, like a mine dropper for an APC or a launcher for a helicopter.

[R-MOD]BloodBane611 wrote:Personally, I'd love to see a workable mining method. I think that having a deployable could work, but if the mines were set up as a plane you could easily have floating mines, mines buried too far to be useful, etc. I think it'd be better to have a vehicle weapon, like a mine dropper for an APC or a launcher for a helicopter.

If you read the suggestion I'm not saying that it should be a deployable asset like other deployables, I'm saying it should be an area of some size within which mines can be placed(Individual mines might have to be deployables though). You can place real mines, fake mines, or any mix of the two, within that area and your team will be able to differentiate between real and fake ones while the enemy cannot(This simulates the fact that you have minefield maps with marked safe routes for these things, something the enemy is usually not privy to). The minefield will be marked on the map and visible to both sides.

The actual suggestion thread is found here(Rough draft in this thread here).

With modern conventional forces, there are several ways to deploy a minefield. The most commonly used by NATO forces would be FASCAM munitions fired from platforms such as the M109 155mm SP Howitzer or the M270 MLRS. There are also quite a few vehicle-deployed mining systems around the globe, and even aerial-deployed systems in use by a few (although not as common).

One of the differences you'll immediately notice between the old style of AT/AP mines and the newer designs is that the new mines are smaller and are not so easy to detect. This is necessary because they are no longer buried, they are simply scattered across the area. Hence their modern nickname "SCATMINE". They are also colored to help them blend into the terrain. This method wouldn't work with the older style of mines shown in PR now, as they are too large to be "camouflaged" after above-ground placement.


Personally, I prefer the use of FASCAM for mine placement. It's the safest, fastest, easiest way to deploy either an AT, AP, or mixed minefield during offensive or defensive operations. But because not everyone has this type of munition available for their faction, the next best option would be vehicle-deployed. Nearly every major faction that we have in PR has some form of vehicle-deployed mining system. Some date back to the late 70's and early 80's, while others have been introduced only recently. But in general, I think that we could determine a suitable platform for every conventional faction.


The trick to it though is getting the mining to function properly. When using a vehicle deployment platform, the system is designed to lay the mines in a pre-determined pattern based on device settings, vehicle speed/movement, and the type of mine being used (depending on target type). The soldiers who operate those systems are trained quite a bit and have a lot of practice under their belts.

But when you get some newbie "behind the wheel" that has little or no clue what they're doing, chances are they will not be capable of employing an effective field. In fact, chances are they will end up killing themselves or leading another friendly vehicle to be destroyed. And because the players in PR have skill/practice equal to a gimped recruit, it would be pointless to integrate a realistic deployment system into the game.


And there is your problem. I'm sure the PR staff has been tossing the idea around for years now, but nobody has figured out a way to do it in a manner that meets the standards of PR. You would need a system that is fairly easy to operate, nearly fool-proof, and is capable of deploying an effective minefield. All of this without having a negative impact on the game's performance, or requiring heavy modification of other assets/code.

I too would love to see an improved and some-what realistic method of deploying proper minefields, not this "One mine here, one mine there" technique used in the game currently. And I think the best way to resolve the issue is for someone to come up with a good method of getting the vehicle to properly deliver a fairly uniform field with minimal hassle. It needs to be numbnut-proof though.

Ninja, those methods of deploying Minefields, do they bury the mines at all?

Vehicle fires mines in a fan fashion, similar to how smoke grenades are deployed currently. One vehicle per team and either needs a crewman driver + CE gunner or simply a single crewmember.

It could be coded as the vehicle not shooting projectiles, but rather spawning those objectives in front of it.

Its a foolproof vehicle because it serves no other practical function other than shooting mines in a certain manner. Of course, a player could shoot them wherever they wanted, but I'm sure theres the ability to stop mines from being able to be deployed in a DoD or something.

AnRK wrote:Unfortunately the layers of ammo are pretty simplified, there's no way of making it so you only get specific kinds of ammo from certain sources, the most complex the team have managed to get it is splitting reloading into infantry/vehicle/air categories.

Dosent need to be reloaded when deployed, mine stay there. Unless they blown, or the mine are cleared out with a "pimped" wrench tool.

AnRK wrote: There's no way that an engineer would carry an anti material rifle either I wouldn't imagine, I know your suggesting it in a way that it can't be used against infantry but it's a bit silly still.

Anyway, engineer do not carry .50 anti-material rifle with them. I'm not even sure that it is used by them in any way.

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote:With modern conventional forces, there are several ways to deploy a minefield. The most commonly used by NATO forces would be FASCAM munitions fired from platforms such as the M109 155mm SP Howitzer or the M270 MLRS. There are also quite a few vehicle-deployed mining systems around the globe, and even aerial-deployed systems in use by a few (although not as common).

One of the differences you'll immediately notice between the old style of AT/AP mines and the newer designs is that the new mines are smaller and are not so easy to detect. This is necessary because they are no longer buried, they are simply scattered across the area. Hence their modern nickname "SCATMINE". They are also colored to help them blend into the terrain. This method wouldn't work with the older style of mines shown in PR now, as they are too large to be "camouflaged" after above-ground placement.


Personally, I prefer the use of FASCAM for mine placement. It's the safest, fastest, easiest way to deploy either an AT, AP, or mixed minefield during offensive or defensive operations. But because not everyone has this type of munition available for their faction, the next best option would be vehicle-deployed. Nearly every major faction that we have in PR has some form of vehicle-deployed mining system. Some date back to the late 70's and early 80's, while others have been introduced only recently. But in general, I think that we could determine a suitable platform for every conventional faction.


The trick to it though is getting the mining to function properly. When using a vehicle deployment platform, the system is designed to lay the mines in a pre-determined pattern based on device settings, vehicle speed/movement, and the type of mine being used (depending on target type). The soldiers who operate those systems are trained quite a bit and have a lot of practice under their belts.

But when you get some newbie "behind the wheel" that has little or no clue what they're doing, chances are they will not be capable of employing an effective field. In fact, chances are they will end up killing themselves or leading another friendly vehicle to be destroyed. And because the players in PR have skill/practice equal to a gimped recruit, it would be pointless to integrate a realistic deployment system into the game.


And there is your problem. I'm sure the PR staff has been tossing the idea around for years now, but nobody has figured out a way to do it in a manner that meets the standards of PR. You would need a system that is fairly easy to operate, nearly fool-proof, and is capable of deploying an effective minefield. All of this without having a negative impact on the game's performance, or requiring heavy modification of other assets/code.

I too would love to see an improved and some-what realistic method of deploying proper minefields, not this "One mine here, one mine there" technique used in the game currently. And I think the best way to resolve the issue is for someone to come up with a good method of getting the vehicle to properly deliver a fairly uniform field with minimal hassle. It needs to be numbnut-proof though.

Making it a deployable asset just like the .50 pit or the foxhole and buried in by shoveling =D Like a predifined patern just like the "wire" , 10 feet long 2 feet wide, make about 15 mines,limite it to 4 MF by team, its more than enought on the PR scale.

Hotrod525 wrote:Anyway, engineer do not carry .50 anti-material rifle with them. I'm not even sure that it is used by them in any way.

Yes, we do. If you don't know something you shouldn't opine on it.

Herbiie wrote:Ninja, those methods of deploying Minefields, do they bury the mines at all?

On today's battlefield, burying mines is "low-tech" and rarely used anymore. With advances in weapons technology we have been able to design mines that are smaller, lighter, and still as effective or more so than the older, larger mines of generations past. Some nations still use the old buried mines, but mostly unconventional forces or those in very low-budget nations.

Burying mines is more dangerous to the soldier for several reasons, not to mention it takes a lot more time and resources.

dtacs wrote:Vehicle fires mines in a fan fashion, similar to how smoke grenades are deployed currently. One vehicle per team and either needs a crewman driver + CE gunner or simply a single crewmember.

It could be coded as the vehicle not shooting projectiles, but rather spawning those objectives in front of it.

Its a foolproof vehicle because it serves no other practical function other than shooting mines in a certain manner. Of course, a player could shoot them wherever they wanted, but I'm sure theres the ability to stop mines from being able to be deployed in a DoD or something.

If you had a vehicle firing mines in a forward arc, chances are someone would run over their own mines. You know the saying "never pee against the wind"?

Examples of problems with a manually-operated deployment device would be an uneven mining pattern if the vehicle isn't moving at a constant speed/direction. And what if the person stops the vehicle with the deploying device still active? You'd have a huge pile of mines in a single spot.

If a vehicle-deployment system is used, it will require a bit more thought into how the mines are deployed, pros and cons of that system, and how to counter any possible bugs/glitches/trouble spots. Not to mention a ton of testing in various environments and terrain.

Hotrod525 wrote:Dosent need to be reloaded when deployed, mine stay there. Unless they blown, or the mine are cleared out with a "pimped" wrench tool.

Modern mines such as SCATMINES no longer last indefinitely. These mines use a self-det timer to destruct after a determined amount of time, varied with the type of mine or the type of minefield/location. I'd like to see that any type of mines deployed in such a large quantity in PR also have life timers.

And by integrating any sort of larger minefields, new counter-mine systems will also need to be added to ensure proper removal. Mine plows, MCLC, bangalores, and other methods used on the modern battlefield instead of having to wrench away on dozens of mines.

Anyway, engineer do not carry .50 anti-material rifle with them. I'm not even sure that it is used by them in any way.

The Barrett family of rifles was originally designed as an anti-material rifle, intended to take out hard and soft targets at a distance. Back in the first Gulf War when the rifle really saw its first combat use, it was used to disable parked enemy aircraft, power generators, and other such targets from a "safe" distance. But it also started to find use in demolitions teams for remote detonation of explosive devices.

Today, several nations are using the Barrett and other .50-caliber rifles for counter-mine and EOD use. Not just the military either, many law enforcement and government agencies use them for this purpose. This is because you can effectively detonate or disable a mine or explosive device. If the bullet itself doesn't destroy/disable the triggering mechanism, the blast force upon impact is often enough to cause immediate detonation.

The team has discussed adding a feature to allow such weapons in PR to detonate explosives and mines, but I don't think it has been resolved yet in a properly functioning manner. When the team can figure out how to do so effectively, we might see combat engineers in PR issued such a weapon again.

Making it a deployable asset just like the .50 pit or the foxhole and buried in by shoveling =D Like a predifined patern just like the "wire" , 10 feet long 2 feet wide, make about 15 mines,limite it to 4 MF by team, its more than enought on the PR scale.

The problem with making minefields work like a deployed asset is the same problem with the current deployed assets: What happens when you try to deploy it on uneven terrain? As Bloodbane mentioned, you'd probably have floating mines, or mines located too deep within the terrain due to sloping ground.

The only way to get a "deployed" minefield to function correctly is to have the mines spawn at a predetermined height above the ground and drop a few feet. This would ensure that all mines fall to the terrain below them and settle at ground level regardless of terrain slope.

But what happens if a deployed minefield is called in near an object/obstacle, such as a building, boulder, etc? That also would need a lot of thought and testing to ensure it doesn't appear buggy or flawed.


Ideas to counter those negative points are always welcome. I'd love to see an improved method of deploying mines in PR, but only as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on gameplay or cause headaches for the staff responsible for developing it.