Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

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Sniperdog
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 1177
Joined: 2009-02-27 00:06

Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Sniperdog »

You should have posted that in the previous post on helo, rather than doing your own.
And I don't think it's possible to render tail rotor fail in BF2 engine. And having all helo crahsing in a spin would be quite silly.
I don't think the issue here is if you can actually render a tail failure as I think there are certain ways you can get around this. As you know when you are in a tank and you get heavily damaged you can still be alive while having limited movement ability. In that situation the controls have been limited with respect to damage sustained. Now I think what would work is doing something similar to that with the helicopter except with the flight controls instead of strictly the power setting. I think a crash could look something like this.

To begin with the helo has 3000 hp and when it has passed 1000hp it is in a critical state and loses health until it hits 3000 and is destroyed.

Yaw control: At 800 a moderate tendency for the helicopter to rotate opposite the direction of the main rotor is felt. This continues to grow until all yaw control is lost at about 1300 health.
Main rotor Thrust: Thrust begins to drop at 1000 (right at the critical point) and it continues to drop until it is completely gone at about 2200. (At which point it should be at the ground or about to hit)
Pitch and Roll control: Begin to become less responsive at 1300, until a complete loss of control is experienced at about 2000 (because this control is tied in with the main rotor).

So basically this is what someone watching would see:

The helo gets hit, it begins to rotate slightly in one direction. After a second or two it begins to rotate a bit more and start losing altitude. It then proceeds to rotate uncontrollable while dropping progressively faster. After about 6-7 seconds the chopper should be on the ground and the crew will have a few seconds to bail out before the helo explodes if it has not already done so upon impact with the ground.

Factors such as how far past the critical point the damage is pushed to with the initial shot, how high the helo is off the ground to begin with, and the pilots flight experience will influence the chance of the crew/passengers making it out alive.


PS. I know that not all helo crashes are the same and certainly that not all of them result in a tail rotor failure, but I don't think it is possible to make it selective unless of course controls can be limited in relation to where the vehicle is hit. I know there is a remote chance this is possible as a tank being hit in different spots may result in different amounts of damage being dolled out but I doubt this could be connected to control of the vehicle.


The big question here as to whether this could work or not is whether control of the aircraft can change in relation to the amount of damage the vehicle as sustained. It would be nice if a dev could answer both if that is possible and how it is done with tanks that are damaged and become dysfunctional.
Sniperdog
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 1177
Joined: 2009-02-27 00:06

Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Sniperdog »

New idea, its kinda cool too.

What if instead of what was proposed before with the helo dropping down and then exploding after a few seconds, the helicopter damage functioned in the same way as a tank. Instead of a tank being destroyed they often simply became incapable of operation. With tanks if you get damaged beyond a certain point your tank becomes immobile... not dead, just immobile. In the same way you could make it that when a helo is hit it simply becomes dysfunctional proportional to the damage received. It would crash to the ground and one of 3 things could happen depending on the altitude the helo is hit at.
(the given altitudes are just for example and could be modified to better reflect realism)

1. <70 meters altitude The helo hits the ground and remains intact, and will stay on the ground right there until it is either repaired by a command truck or destroyed by either friendlies who need the vehicle back or enemies who want the tickets.

2. 70-120 m altitude The helo hits the ground and WILL explode soon depending on whether it is closer to 70m (little bit of breathing time) or 120m (gtfo of that chopper).

3 >120m Helo explodes upon impact with the ground, all crew and passengers instantly killed.

This could all be done by messing around with the critical damage point of the helo and the total health.
503
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by 503 »

{9thInf} Archer wrote:all I can do is shower you with kudos!

Could there be massive tickets for a lost pilot? I mean losing a pilot is very expensive for the military! It takes time and alot of money to train a pilot. If you increase amount of ticket loss for pilots it could develop into a competition between teams. 1 side trying to save the pilot and the other trying to kill him.

Plus i like the idea of a blackhawk crashing with a full squad surviving. A true blackhawk down scenario where all the insurgents in the city are coming down on the pilot and that squad.
This is actually a good idea. Gives more reason for a pilot to bail out instead of going down with their aircraft.
qunniq
Posts: 29
Joined: 2008-08-30 23:25

Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by qunniq »

[R-MOD]Mongolian_dude wrote:Tryed to get this one to the people myself a while ago, but some ****** made controversy a few posts later and it got ignored. Plus well-audioed vid would have helped :)

I agree, it would definately be a good step in the direction of realism and enhanced gameplay.
Another addition would be some changes to the operability to the aircraft when disabled like such.
In game atm, despite any velocities, foreces and headings of the chopper, it will give up what it's doing and decide to do a perfectly vertical dive; leaving the pilot no control whatsoever.

Perhaps at least the ability to change heading would mean that the airflow going through the blades would still give you a chance at an emergency landing or do something to improve the situation? As opposed to the controls locking up completely.

...mongol...

if they wanted to be technical they should add autorotation

when a helicopter experinces a engine failure or losses control of the tail rotor the pilots only chance to save himself and his crew is by preforming an autorotation landing.

pretty much the pilot balances airspeed and his collective to maintain lift and when close to the ground pulls back for more lift to slow the decent for a soft landing (in short terms).

like this



no matter what altitude you get hit at you can most likely pull off an autorotation if youre smart unless you suffer massive controls failure.
McBumLuv
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by McBumLuv »

Tail rotor failure is in, it just hasn't been made to work on a regular basis on dedicated servers for some reason, though.
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awqs
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by awqs »

McLuv wrote:Tail rotor failure is in, it just hasn't been made to work on a regular basis on dedicated servers for some reason, though.
Ive heard about this that it only works on single player but not on the internet and always wondered why it dosent.
maybe it causes a lot of lag or somethnig like that.
"Leave no man behind"
Doc_Frank
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Doc_Frank »

Basically a well rounded idea, however I see soldiers jumping out of the damaged choppers a little too early. Think about that also, before you start thinking BH Down replays.
"The torture never stops."
McBumLuv
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by McBumLuv »

Sniper_dog14 wrote: 1. <70 meters altitude The helo hits the ground and remains intact, and will stay on the ground right there until it is either repaired by a command truck or destroyed by either friendlies who need the vehicle back or enemies who want the tickets.

2. 70-120 m altitude The helo hits the ground and WILL explode soon depending on whether it is closer to 70m (little bit of breathing time) or 120m (gtfo of that chopper).

3 >120m Helo explodes upon impact with the ground, all crew and passengers instantly killed.
Well, I thought I had posted this earlier, but having a friend hwo actually works in the helicopter industry, I know what can happen with them. Apparently, even if all the engines fail, helicopters are still much safer than jets. They can "glide" down even without any upwards torque.

As it is, if the engine ever detects that you've lost motor control, you just drop like a rock to your doom. If it's possible, it should be implemented that you can "glide" down eve after you've reached critical.

If, however, that isn't implemented, it can at least be simulated by allowing higher crash stress.
{9thInf} Archer wrote:all I can do is shower you with kudos!

Could there be massive tickets for a lost pilot? I mean losing a pilot is very expensive for the military! It takes time and alot of money to train a pilot. If you increase amount of ticket loss for pilots it could develop into a competition between teams. 1 side trying to save the pilot and the other trying to kill him.

Plus i like the idea of a blackhawk crashing with a full squad surviving. A true blackhawk down scenario where all the insurgents in the city are coming down on the pilot and that squad.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr-suggestions/55335-differentiated-pilot-kits-plus-solution-so-everyones-happy.html

This thread suggests something along the same lines... giving them more incentive to survive.
Last edited by McBumLuv on 2009-03-11 16:12, edited 1 time in total.
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McBumLuv
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by McBumLuv »

EDIT: Why'd I have to double post? FAIL
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Alex6714
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Alex6714 »

awqs wrote:Ive heard about this that it only works on single player but not on the internet and always wondered why it dosent.
maybe it causes a lot of lag or somethnig like that.
The reason it doesn´t work as far as I know is that it just doesn´t work, same as many things.
"Today's forecast calls for 30mm HE rain with a slight chance of hellfires"


"oh, they're fire and forget all right...they're fired then they forget where the target is"
W4lt3r89
Posts: 73
Joined: 2009-02-17 22:09

Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by W4lt3r89 »

awqs wrote:Ive heard about this that it only works on single player but not on the internet and always wondered why it dosent.
maybe it causes a lot of lag or somethnig like that.
Actually I've had plenty of times while flying the Huey (mostly transport version) and after getting hit by RPG/AA, I mostly lose control of my tail rotor, making it rather difficult to get back to base in one piece..

It happens on Multiplayer, but not that often. You can consider yourself to be lucky to just lose tail rotor and not the engine power instead.
Last edited by W4lt3r89 on 2009-03-11 17:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Quote fix
Sparatan117
Posts: 113
Joined: 2009-03-12 07:51

Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Sparatan117 »

The Apache is quite different. I don't know how it'll tie into everything but its landing gear is made to take up to 20Gs of force. and the pilots will walk fine.

The canopy is very weak though (to heavy fire). I cant say classified information but ground fire (light arms) is pretty much useless against the Apache. Blackhawks come in all the time pilots quoting "@#$@ing AKs" haha.
Sparatan117
Posts: 113
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Sparatan117 »

W4lt3r89 wrote:You can consider yourself to be lucky to just lose tail rotor and not the engine power instead.
Real helicopters will continue stable flight if the forward speed is 20 Knots or more.
Ace42
Posts: 600
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Ace42 »

asianator365 wrote:Awesome idea. Pilot rescue would become a semi-regular occurrence, instead of a once-in-a-blue moon fluke. It would give passengers a chance to escape. And it may even bring an aircraft recovery aspect into the game.
Hmmm, pilot kits would have to be more limited though. Air vehicles are usually at a main spawn, and dying is a fast-taxi back to the queue in time for the respawn. Most pilots don't want to risk failing to make it back to the airport in time and having someone pick up their bird. If pilot kits were limited so that recovering them (and preventing the enemy from knobbling them) was a key strategy, that would help matters. Of course, you'd also need an incentive for people not to avoid bailing out just to make the pilot kit inaccessible to anyone else...
Sparatan117
Posts: 113
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Sparatan117 »

asianator365 wrote: And it may even bring an aircraft recovery aspect into the game.
So what? Tell the guy that just wants to use the Chinook to go fly to some flag so he can get there faster that you need it to go pick up the downed Apache? Good Luck
cyberzomby
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by cyberzomby »

Last night on Kashan 16 I was flying a cow up to south village area to build an outpost. I took a LAT shot from really close and the chopper just took a dive down. I was only up 20/30 feet so it survived the crash and everyone got out.

It felt a lot like that video and sollution! Really cool
awqs
Posts: 103
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by awqs »

W4lt3r89 wrote:Actually I've had plenty of times while flying the Huey (mostly transport version) and after getting hit by RPG/AA, I mostly lose control of my tail rotor, making it rather difficult to get back to base in one piece..

It happens on Multiplayer, but not that often. You can consider yourself to be lucky to just lose tail rotor and not the engine power instead.
ive had a loss of my tail rotor lots of times and still returned to base you just need to know how to steer with out it and how to fly side ways.

and I hate when i lose engine power cuz 9 time out of 10 i die
"Leave no man behind"
99lynx
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by 99lynx »

I like it... Nice work

One thing I would add is that once critical damage is in effect damage continues to the helicopter over a period of time, such as say....45 seconds or so... This would allow the pilot to ditch and save the crew, but the helicopter still blow and respawn at some point since aircraft recovery would be rediculous.
Last edited by 99lynx on 2009-03-12 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Addition of information
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Tofurkeymeister
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Tofurkeymeister »

99lynx wrote:I like it... Nice work

One thing I would add is that once critical damage is in effect damage continues to the helicopter over a period of time, such as say....45 seconds or so... This would allow the pilot to ditch and save the crew, but the helicopter still blow and respawn at some point since aircraft recovery would be rediculous.
...that's what it does in the video :P , just much faster than what you say.
Incomplete Spork
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Re: Helicopter Suggestion (With Video)

Post by Incomplete Spork »

W4lt3r89 wrote:Actually I've had plenty of times while flying the Huey (mostly transport version) and after getting hit by RPG/AA, I mostly lose control of my tail rotor, making it rather difficult to get back to base in one piece..

It happens on Multiplayer, but not that often. You can consider yourself to be lucky to just lose tail rotor and not the engine power instead.
No you haven't

We are talking about the tail rotor damage where you spin out of control, not the one where you lose your rudder ability.
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