Project Reality Forums

Revive should be taken out. How and when and also what should be implemented as a kinda of addition iono. In a firefight people would be super cautious to keep down and use real tactics to get the advantage such as flanking, suppressive fire, etc. Right now its just charge in and get as many as you can then die and have your buddies mop up and revive you. Silly if you ask me. I think if you get a body or headshot your incapacitated. Non vital hits such as legs and arms should be revive able if we are to keep the revive thing going.

As it stands revive to me is ruining the game cause in firefights people play gamey. They run out without cover or anything and just know there is a good chance they will be revived. Somehow the devs need to fix this as psyko said and they need to do this before they make any new stuff.

GET ER DONE!

Isn't there a way to give the server control of these options?

For example, the server can either enable or disable the following:

-Revives
-Rally Points
-Other basic features

Servers can select these basic options in other FPS games, so why not PR? If it's hardcoded, then I guess this is impossible, but it seems like the best solution to me.

You will always have "hardcore" players that want more realism, but those players will also have more teamwork, which is necessary to make the game playable without rally points and revives, for example. Conversely, you will have casual players that want a mix of realism and arcade style gameplay. They will be less coordinated, so the removal of rally points and revives will make the game unplayable.

If you try to implement one style of play entirely without consideration for the other styles, you will alienate the majority of players and the mod population will mostly disappear.

The best thing to do is find a way for servers to manage these basic features on their own. You guys came up with a great mod, so I'm sure you can find a way to allow servers to enable and disable certain gameplay features!

I dont think we can truly asses things such as this, until aspect such as prone-diving have been dealt with and disappear from average PR play.
Until then, players playing in a realistic fashion will to some extent be punished for doing so; in that single, more arcade-orientated players will still have the combat advantage, despite realistic players dealing with tasks in what is perceived to be the 'best way' to deal with the situation, IRL.


What i mean by this is that, removing the current reviving system in PR will unlikely bare any incentive for arcade-orientated players to begin acting 'realistically', as that now players who do work in teamwork-orientated units with medical support, amongst other forms of support, will be the ones that suffer the most; as players acting in traditional arcade-style lone-wolfing suffer no penalty whatsoever.

This is because these players play with no expectation of being revived, as they know that employing certain arcade-orientated tactics will yield 'better' results, most often described as more kills.
For the team-players, however, a member of their team (the medic) that was once a fail-safe against lone-wolf players by reviving those that were killed by the one-man assault, is now rendered many times less useful.

The wolf, who could once easily be dispatched with superior numbers and his damaged dealt with, with the power to recover losses through revives, now has more impact on the field; in that his arcade-style attacks bare no greater cost to himself, but greater costs to his team-work orientated opponents.


Lets break it down

+ Encourages players, generally, to take more care of their individual lives.
+ Arguably a more realistic outcome than quickly reviving players on the field to full fighting effectiveness.
+ The removal of the 'Medic spamming' tactic, where squads will employ medic heavy units to increase it's survivability massively, to what is arguably a unrealistic extent.
+ The over-all satisfaction in knowing that you are playing in a more realistic environment.


- The game, for those critically wounded, becomes ever frustrating as made progress is more easily lost.
- Bugs, technical errors(lag etc) will further now have further significance on games.
- Lone-wolves now become more effective against larger, team-orientated units.
- As a result of increased lone-wolf effectiveness, there is less incentive to play more 'realistically' and the resultant drop in realistic game-play and increase in arcade-like game-play.
- The loss of what is a relatively well refined system and hard work put in to the medic class.

So?

= From the + and - of removing the Revive System, it would seem that while the + associated with removing it are generally realism based, the - associated pay more attention to the game-play aspect of PR, and carrying slightly more weight in that the over-all focus of attention is the Resultant Fun/Satisfaction with playing the game, or in short, the reason why we play in the first place.


A compromise would be to limit the Medic class to one per-squad, so that we gain some of the positives of removing the Revive System and suppress the costs of removing the Revive system entirely.


...mongol....

'[R-MOD wrote:Mongolian_dude;994626']


A compromise would be to limit the Medic class to one per-squad, so that we gain some of the positives of removing the Revive System and suppress the costs of removing the Revive system entirely.


...mongol....

If this were done, its not too bad a compromise, imo it would only be any good if you could not pick up the medics kit.

And mongolian perfectly expressed my concerns with this. I tried to bring this up before in a short post basicly trying to say that: Sure if you want this part of PR to be as real as possible, you'd better make the rest as real as possible as well. For one thing, players are limited to what they can see without exposing themselves. Example of leaning around a corner or using a mirror to check corners. But Mongolian did a far better job! Thanks man

EDIT:
Oh and Rhino already mentioned somewhere that 1 medic per squad was what they were going to implement in .9 if I remember correctly.

I'd like to see that medic-limiting system in place (if it's possible to make it a spawnable-limit, like in FH2, but based on squads, that'd be the best imo).

Though, I quite like Socket's idea, too. Have it so head-shots are deaths, no question about it. But if you get shot in the chest, you'll still have a chance of being killed. Maybe 33% chance of death if shot in the torso with conventional body-armour when shot with a 5.56 caliber round, but it goes up to 40% when shot by a 7.62 round. Otherwise, factions without body armour would have higher death percentages from torso shots, say a 50% chance when shot with a 5.56.

That wouldn't completely hamper gameplay with the same theoretical negatives, or the ones in games like Arma. Rather, you'd be diminishing the "boomheadshot" mentality that fuzzhead hates, while preserving realism, and actually improving gameplay in most areas, imo. Medics would still be useful all the time if you survive being hit, and you'll have a >60% chance of surviving.

Yeap mongol put it well IMO...

And yes, the next patch will have limited medic 1 per squad plus only able to revive every 60s.

[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:Yeap mongol put it well IMO...

And yes, the next patch will have limited medic 1 per squad plus only able to revive every 60s.

Will it be implemented like the Automatic rifleman? (limited request kit but with more than the normal special weapon kits available)

[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:Yeap mongol put it well IMO...

And yes, the next patch will have limited medic 1 per squad plus only able to revive every 60s.

I hope you know that medics will be primary targets. Totaly unrealistic.

But from the other side you increase realism in overall aspect.
Because medics are not for killing.
They have to stay covered.

So i think the scale remains balanced.
Lets try it..

Nemus wrote:I hope you know that medics will be primary targets. Totaly unrealistic.

But from the other side you increase realism in overall aspect.
Because medics are not for killing.
They have to stay covered.

So i think the scale remains balanced.
Lets try it..

medics are already primary targets. with the .9 changes, medics will be lower priority targets because they'll be less effective than the .8 medics.

is it possible to make the medic kit dissappear instantly when a medic is killed (but still leave the other kits to expire after 30 seconds)?

[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:And yes, the next patch will have limited medic 1 per squad plus only able to revive every 60s.

Fuzz, could you clarify this change? Will medics be able to reveive only one person every 60 seconds? Or will a player only be revivable if they haven't been revived within the last 60s?

i really agree with the medic kit disappearing almost immediately. yes, a typical soldiers have basic first aid skills, but definitely not enough to revive a person, only a medic or corpsman could do that. i believe it can be simulated by the medic kit disappearing instead of it lying there up for grabs.

-SgtFailure

That, and as I've said in other threads today, the epipen concept needs to be changed.

This is how I envision a medic's healing tools in .9:

Epipen: Provides an instant health boost equal to 2 or 3 field dressings, but only on targets under 15% health. Designed to stabilize a recently revived or severely wounded soldier.

Field Dressing: The Medic carries a large number of field dressings (10-15) instead of a magic bag.

Resuscitate: Replaces the epipen as the revival tool, but a large number (15-25) of applications are required to bring a soldier to life, and the soldier will only last 15-20 seconds before bleeding out. The only ways to stabilize a revived soldier are the epipen and field dressings.

The medic bag needs to be removed because a medic, like everyone else in the squad, should require resupply. As far as I know, the medic bag is effectively unlimited because the average medic is dead before he depletes his bag.

Charity Case wrote:Fuzz, could you clarify this change? Will medics be able to reveive only one person every 60 seconds? Or will a player only be revivable if they haven't been revived within the last 60s?

They've hinted it once already, and from what I've heared, its the latter.

Nemus wrote:I hope you know that medics will be primary targets. Totaly unrealistic.

But from the other side you increase realism in overall aspect.
Because medics are not for killing.
They have to stay covered.

So i think the scale remains balanced.
Lets try it..

iirc, the Geneva convention states that it is against international Law to intentionally kill medics.
Lets not forget that there are actually no Medics in PR.
In the conventional armies at least, the 'medical specialist' is in fact a corpsman; in very basic description, somewhere between a Rifleman and Medic, in that he is not as highly qualified as a Medic, yet he is not bound by Law to not carry a weapon.

I doubt that Cropsmen will quite be the highest priority target to a soldier. With the thought in his mind that now his own corpsman is less efficient at reviving, Im sure he'd want to eliminate the greatest threat to himself first to ensure his own survival, such as a marksman, AutoRifle, grenadier etc.


I think it would make sense to, instead of the Medic/Corpsman kit disappearing instantly, it changes into a Rifleman aimpoint/ironsight kit. I mean, you'd still be able to pick up the man's rifle, no?
Unless someone wants to go to the trouble of implementing another kit that would be the same as the medic/corpsman's, yet it has no resuscitate/Epi pen, solely to be dropped upon a medic/corpsman's death.


...mongol...

There should not be a DEAD state , i think it should be -Combat ineffective- even if you are not dead. Because even if the specialist comes and stabilize you , the chances that you get back to the fight with the rifle in your hands are inexistent. So why (in a game) would you waste your time on im ?

Yes to the first aid carrier aka corpsman (lol) but as a limited kit only
No to the epipen/shock pad

'[R-MOD wrote:Mongolian_dude;995596']iirc, the Geneva convention states that it is against international Law to intentionally kill medics.
Lets not forget that there are actually no Medics in PR.
In the conventional armies at least, the 'medical specialist' is in fact a corpsman; in very basic description, somewhere between a Rifleman and Medic, in that he is not as highly qualified as a Medic, yet he is not bound by Law to not carry a weapon.

I doubt that Cropsmen will quite be the highest priority target to a soldier. With the thought in his mind that now his own corpsman is less efficient at reviving, Im sure he'd want to eliminate the greatest threat to himself first to ensure his own survival, such as a marksman, AutoRifle, grenadier etc.


I think it would make sense to, instead of the Medic/Corpsman kit disappearing instantly, it changes into a Rifleman aimpoint/ironsight kit. I mean, you'd still be able to pick up the man's rifle, no?
Unless someone wants to go to the trouble of implementing another kit that would be the same as the medic/corpsman's, yet it has no resuscitate/Epi pen, solely to be dropped upon a medic/corpsman's death.


...mongol...

I said that shooting the medic first is unrealistic not because of Geneva convention but as you said is not high thread.

Of course you right about greatest threads like grenadiers, marksmen etc. But there is one more aspect.
By reducing revives (you can be revived once every 60 secs), medics (one per squad) and the changes to rally points (discused in other thread) maybe we will make medic more valuable than before.
Because the one and only revive can be the diference between spawn to rally point or spawn to base.
Plus that if you just revived and shoted again you must absolutely find a medic fast to avoid the black screen.

Of course all this is just a guess until we test these changes in game.

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead;994958']Yeap mongol put it well IMO...

And yes, the next patch will have limited medic 1 per squad plus only able to revive every 60s.

Will there be a minimum number of players needed in a squad to request the
medic kit? To avoid 1 man raise the dead,heal ya all ( aka Jesus Christ) squads.
Time limit also to avoid the squad jumping - leave a squad,get the kit -
back to the squad.I guess the latter is already in.

Threedroogs wrote:medics are already primary targets. with the .9 changes, medics will be lower priority targets because they'll be less effective than the .8 medics.

is it possible to make the medic kit dissappear instantly when a medic is killed (but still leave the other kits to expire after 30 seconds)?

I was thinking about same thing. Just like Civilian kit used to be.

I second this idea.

If a soldier is shot, then revived, if he is shot again within 60s he is killed (cannot be revived).

Medic can still revive as before... making revive take a long time is very difficult to do and make it not extremely weird/gimpy