What's the point of a sniper?

[goguapsy]

haha, the first 3 posts are my sig! XD this was one of the first threads I ever read in the forums

[Truism]

Topic done to death.

Rationally, no, there isn't a point to the sniper kit. Every other kit is more combat effective, and the sniper kit isn't significantly better at recon than other kits despite not carrying equipment to make it good at other things. The sniper kit is used because it has cool connotations, that's it.

The only thing that is less useful to a team than someone trying to snipe is someone trying to spot for the sniper.

[goguapsy]

Topic done to death.

Rationally, no, there isn't a point to the sniper kit. Every other kit is more combat effective, and the sniper kit isn't significantly better at recon than other kits despite not carrying equipment to make it good at other things. The sniper kit is used because it has cool connotations, that's it.

The only thing that is less useful to a team than someone trying to snipe is someone trying to spot for the sniper.

Nope. Snipers have a bloody important part if done properly. Read astromici's sniper guide. pretty neat stuff.

[[ELITE]General-Sb]

Mongolian_dude;1053132']Your points 1 & 2 are pretty flawed, as its rather dependent on the server you play on and the time at which you play on them.
I make sure the servers I play on rarely have those traits you have mentioned, therefore I dont share this problem.

Point 3 is not necessarily correct.
Important aspects of of specialist kits are usually made visable up to greater ranges by the Devs.
For example, you might not see the kit geometry, but you can see that the player is holding an Automatic Rifle or a LAT, allowing you to priorities your targets.

A general rule I play by is, the Medic is usually one of the skinnier guys.
If i still cant tell, go for one of the high priority targets and see which one of them runs for the revive. Target that man. Kill him.
Then go through the rest of the squad as they scramble to retrive the Medic kit and save the day, to no avail.


Cant find the screenshot, but on TG a few days ago I achieved 21-1 KD as a sniper with my spotter. Average engagement range was about 500m+.
M.Warren was our commander, and I was passing up Squad, FB and Armour positions to the CO, which were marked for the team.
Sniper wins.


Your issue to being spotted will likely be down to patience or greed.

Firing often will get you more kills in the short run, but decrease your chances for survival.
1st Shot alerts the enemy there is a sniper targeting them.
2nd Shot will give them the sniper's general direction.
3rd Shot will give them a degree for the sniper.
4th Shot will pretty much give them Sniper's exact location.
Sometimes, its just wise not to shoot at all.


Chosing a location is perhaps the most important aspect.

Not being able to have a 360' field of view or at least a good view around you gives the problem of not knowing if there are contacts near by and sneaking up on you.
Areas such as dense woodland mean that you will have to move after every 1-2 shots, or you will be discovered and likely killed. Movement is key.


As fun as it is, travelling with 2 snipers together is generally a really bad idea.
Aside from limiting the kits to be used elsewhere, it means that you are firing twice the shots and risking losing both sniper kits in one fatal swoop.
Inevitably, the snipers end up competeing for the same targets and firing lots of shots.


You should be very aware of where friendly units are operating.
There are advantages to having a big, hazy battle raging on as it means you are less distinguishable and have people to use effectively as a shield, by keeping them bewteen you and your enemy.


From your experience of playing public games, you should know where the frequently traveled routes are across the map. Stay away from them, as you'll find yourself too close for comfort, but not too close for a body bag.


It can be allot to think about, but if you want to keep that SR all round, then its pretty much a must.


...mongol...

Great post & guide for the unexperienced PR snipers.

[KingKong.CCCP]

SNIPER KIT IS THERE BECAUSE KIDS LOVE IT.
Being a sniper is what make them feel special.

I got a brother, he's 12. The very first thing he wanted to try in the game was - the sniper kit.
Please leave it in game (I wouldn't have the heart to tell him "it was removed from the game cos it's really a stupid kit, without any purpose whatsoever" and look at his facial expression after that).
It's a damn shame devs removed the best joke-kit ever - SpecOps kit from 0.6 (or was it 0.7?). Back then at least you could tell straight away who to kick from the squad immediately.

Check out the fun and the pride this kid is experiencing while being a deadly sniper feared by the enemy in his imaginary world:

If I'm engaging a squad, I usually take out the medic first, then the officer, thus making a panic to the squad. I then get any Marksmen or Snipers that may be watching, then anyone who has binoculars, then any noobs running around. After that, you nailed a whole squad.

^This is the only purpose of the sniper kit in the game. I say, leave it there, let em have their fun.

1. Recon
BS. Snipers are as good at recon as any other kit out there, and that's a fact.

2. Lasing
You really took that kit cos you can lase??? Come on, that's a lousy excuse... most of the maps don't have any kind of flying vehicles. And even on those maps, most of the times the CAS is not available.
And even then (!), the fly boys have their own plan, and don't pay attention to people lasing... or there are 5 others lasing at the same time as you, etc...
But, my baby brother was so happy he can "put a freakin LASER BEAM on the enemy tank, and destroy it by doing so", thus making the sniper a true 21st century battlefield hero.

3. Taking out Officers/Medics
Bah... doesn't matter that much. Sniper is efficient only on new guys who tend to stand still in the open. When playing with vets, I can't make them stop buzzing around. I don't even pay attention to a sniper any more, and if you have experienced guys in the squad, maybe someone will spot him, just for fun, like "oooooh, a sniper on the crane, [Arnold Schwarzenegger voice]get down![/voice]".


Now, the real use for this awesome 133t kit would be to kill the TOW operators, HATs or jeep turret gunners... But then again, to pick a snipe kit just so that you can do something like that is not nice, as a friend of mine used to say:
"Every time when you pick up a sniper kit, you know somewhere out there in the world, you made a kid cry"
ops:

[Truism]

Mongolian_dude;1053132']
Firing often will get you more kills in the short run, but decrease your chances for survival.
1st Shot alerts the enemy there is a sniper targeting them.
2nd Shot will give them the sniper's general direction.
3rd Shot will give them a degree for the sniper.
4th Shot will pretty much give them Sniper's exact location.
Sometimes, its just wise not to shoot at all.

This sequence would be correct if there was effective concealment in PR and muzzle flash was accurately modelled. If the other team is switched on, then it goes like:

1st Shot misses because the other team stays moving, and snipers are all less accurate than untrained recruits off civvie street in PR. But it alerts them that a sniper is shooting. They look the around and see you because concealment doesn't work past 30 meters and binoculars have a better zoom than sniper rifles.[/b]
2nd Shot doesn't happen because you have to relocate now. Time to try again.[/b]

Against **** opponents you can rake in good scores with a sniper kit, but snipers DO NOT represent a real tactical challenge to decent players, decent squads or decent squad leaders. When was the last time someone in your squad got hit by a sniper and you panicked? That's the effect sniper fire should have, it should create an instant need to retake the initiative where at the moment it's a minor inconvenience at worst.

[wookimonsta]

well, i can't speak for everyone, and I have seen my fair share of idiots with sniper rifles.
however, there are good ones, and i do consider myself a decent sniper in pr.
on maps like kashan, I do spotting. not just for planes, but everyone. i will talk to the tank squads to tell them locations of enemy tanks as well. this works without a commander, its just a bit more tedious.

on infantry maps I also like to snipe, nothing makes me happier than being an insurgent and running into a sniper. since most people don't know how to use it, its usually easy to get ahold of. most of the times I am a sniper its with an enemy kit.

i agree that against vets, its a less effective weapon than against noobs, but then again, isn't that true for EVERY weapon out there? also, since vets are the ones that stay in cover, they are often easier to hit by a sniper rifle since you often have time to aim properly. they will however find you quicker.

on long ranges, the biggest problem is people moving since the delay between firing and hitting someone. this however isnt a problem when the enemy is moving straight towards you or away from you, so try and find a position where the enemy has to do so or wait for them to hop into cover from someone else.
a sniper is much more effective when cooperating with his team. if the enemy takes fire from an lmg and takes cover: BAM, you pick one off. this will give the rest of the squad a choice, either stay here where a sniper can pick them off, retreat, or try and face the lmg.
protip, if a sniper fires at you, this is the PERFECT time to run since it will take a bit for him to reload and be ready to fire again.

[angellfall]

U cant blame kit if ppl just dont know how to use it.. I doubt there wery few guys in pub matches who can actually use granadier kit as it should be used...

[Deer]

As long as gameplay is about destroying enemy spawnpoints and taking control of areas, and spawnpoints are not players, snipers are indeed useless for the gameplay. They are also not usefull at all for improving teamwork, infact they support 1-2 man squads instead of 6man squads.

Only thing they are good for, is that they offer possibility to experience game from 1 more different point of view, they add variation. But i would like to remove marksman kit just to reduce amount of snipers which is about 4 atm. 1-2 should be better. Marksman kit is being used as secondary sniper kit when the sniper kits has been taken already by someone else and i dont think we can spare 4 players out of 30 for lonewolffing / 2manning (mainly that is, 90% of the time, very very rarely marksmans are being used in large squads but it does happen, but wouldnt be big loss)

By removing 2 players from 4 snipers, we could add 1 more vehicle for example to each map. Or just 2 more infantry, you get the point.

[Dizakui]

I've never used the sniper kit in a match, training server maybe, but I've used a marksman kit, and ended up doing a small amount of recon when I was on my way back to a firebase to regroup with my squad (somehow only I'd survied) and a few of them did thank me for telling them vehicles were coming and from what direction.
Tried to teach a mate of mine to use it once and h repeatedly tried to do it like call of duty 4, in the end he walked off on his own into a flanking squad and got killed, then even though I told him not to he went straight back to that place to try and get his kit and it had been taken, and was then used to kill him a few times.
I've also been in games where the other team seem ready for people to arrive when ever we went from say, the west, north-west or north, and another where 1 guy with a sniper kit halted the movement of 2 squads because no one could find him but they werer scared to move forward because they knew he was there
I like the sniper kit in the right hands, but I dislike it when it's a guy who thinks he can kill everyone by himself because he has the super awsome mega range 1 shot kill kit.

The point is to help the team, give information or if need be try to slow down/halt enemy movement. But just knowing when and where the enemy is coming from or knowing they might be in a panic helps out alot when your defending or attacking.

Edit: or atleast thats what I think.

[bondsan]

The point of sniper is to KILL KILL KILL
and what do they drink BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD
This is my rifle there are many like it but this one is mine.....mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine..........ad infinitum

[Ninja2dan]

In real life, the point of a sniper is many. They are used as a form of scout, and because they move with a small two-man team trained in cover and concealment they are able to get into areas to maintain observation of the enemy without being detected. They are able to call in air and artillery strikes when needed, and can deal with priority targets when their ROE allow.

In PR, the role of a sniper is unfortunately not going to work out that well. Due to game limitations, sniper teams are unable to conceal themselves in a realistic manner. This means that one of the most important aspects of being in a sniper team is now impossible, and their main advantage of being invisible is now gone. While sniper teams in PR do play some importance on certain maps where lazing of targets or reporting enemy positions is important, chances are a squad leader or support vehicle might be able to do a better job at it.

In other games, such as Arma, snipers will retain a significant and vital role on many levels. But in PR, I haven't seen many maps where a sniper team can really work properly without a LOT of practice on that specific level. Most of the time, as others have said, snipers in PR end up just wasting manpower on an unessential asset. Maybe in the future as more maps are introduced or new workarounds are created to help snipers in their role, then maybe we might have a solid use for them. But as of now, I tend to stay away from that kit as much as possible.

[<<SpanishSurfer>>]

What's the point of a Sniper? Simple! It puts everyone on edge! You can distract entire squads with some good shots. The more distraction you provide the easier you make it for the rest of your team to advance!

[Herbiie]

snipers are like ratlings( warhammer 40k anyone). they take the **** off everyone yet they can save countless lives and dont get anything. a well placed sniper and do lots of damage no matter what. They have more ball than anyone cos they are very vunerable.

Actually I've NEVER had a sniper save my life apart from once, and then he was a friend and was doing Recon, and I was his spotter. (Was an awesome shot, I was taking out a rally then someone came to knife me - then suddenly I was suppressed and he was dead...)

Most snipers out there are Vanilla kids and so i think the sniper shouldn't be a particularly effective weapon for killing (should require some skill - zeroed to 600m? ROFLYSST), but should have 2/3 levels of zoom (all of them...) or just a high powered zoom. This would make them effective tools for Recon (Like they are supposed to be) and they would get used less as l33t weapons of mass destruction.

Actually - just take them out, as other people have said Recon can be done by others.

[Masterbake]

Although a spotter is ideal, 4 men dedicated to sniping is too much. Play with a 2 man sniper squad on a good map and you can have a big impact if you play well. Whether you have a huge effect on the flag defence and attack is one thing, but you can certainly make a substantial difference to the ticket score by staying in cover and being patient.

This is from fools road, I was with migacz. We lost the round as the map is so unbalanced but made a huge contribution to the team defending a hilltop outpost from the other side of the river.
http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/ ... 7c4afa.png

I'm sure other people have sshots better than that, and the kill/death difference each player has obviously matters a lot in a round as it won't always end by capout.

[KingKong.CCCP]

As long as gameplay is about destroying enemy spawnpoints and taking control of areas, and spawnpoints are not players, snipers are indeed useless for the gameplay. They are also not usefull at all for improving teamwork, infact they support 1-2 man squads instead of 6man squads.

Only thing they are good for, is that they offer possibility to experience game from 1 more different point of view, they add variation. But i would like to remove marksman kit just to reduce amount of snipers which is about 4 atm. 1-2 should be better. Marksman kit is being used as secondary sniper kit when the sniper kits has been taken already by someone else and i dont think we can spare 4 players out of 30 for lonewolffing / 2manning (mainly that is, 90% of the time, very very rarely marksmans are being used in large squads but it does happen, but wouldnt be big loss)

By removing 2 players from 4 snipers, we could add 1 more vehicle for example to each map. Or just 2 more infantry, you get the point.

sad but true.
Marksman is a real treat for the squad, but nobody uses it like it should...

[=FCF=HkArmy(US)]

I use the sniper kit often, the problem is that with all video games too many small children play them, they think the point of a sniper is to kill a bunch. used correctly the sniper team relays information to his squad/squad leader who then relays it over the Command radio so all the squad leaders can use it to their advantage. unfortunately most don't understand this concept.

not that using your rifle to take out enemy is a bad thing, just not the only reason for a sniper to be on the battlefield.

[sporkife]

I heart marksman. On the big maps, and some 2km maps even (depending on faction and role, i.e. EJOD west side desert flanking) I'll take the marksman over the AR in a full squad, and I almost ALWAYS run AR if I get the chance. I'm not awful at it either. If you're planning to engage enemies at over ~250m, having a marksman as well as an AR gives you a huge advantage over the enemy squad with just an AR and rifles - the two ARs end up shooting at each other, leaving the marksman free to kill off infantry, or the enemy AR even, which then puts the advantage in the firefight on your side. In a full squad setting, it's also useful for taking out a couple defenders from out of their engagement range before they even know you're within 600m. It also makes a mediocre to poor sniper replacement, depending on the faction.

Sniper, on the other hand, is only good in the right hands. Yes, a lot of the time some nilla preteen takes it and wanders around getting killed, but if a skilled, experienced shooter gets it, he can both provide valuable intel and take a lot of enemy tickets, particularly by supporting on the flank of an infantry assault, I've found (attacking one of the middle CPs in teh oilfields, or some of the CPs on Qwai) or defending at a number of different CPS, with long range accurate fire.

[scope]

I use the sniper kit often, the problem is that with all video games too many small children play them, they think the point of a sniper is to kill a bunch. used correctly the sniper team relays information to his squad/squad leader who then relays it over the Command radio so all the squad leaders can use it to their advantage. unfortunately most don't understand this concept.

not that using your rifle to take out enemy is a bad thing, just not the only reason for a sniper to be on the battlefield.

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't every kit in the game have bino's.

Imagine this...a player who can both spot aaand help cap a flag. waaaait....they have a kit for that. It's called anything other then the sniper kit.

ninja'd by rampo (dam u)

[rampo]

How is is these kind of threads allways seem to be the most discussed ones =P anyway scope, the pilots dont have binos