Project Reality Forums

[R-DEV]bosco wrote:TG has two reserved slots, so when it's 62/64, it's actually full and you will get the kicked message when trying to join.

Gunner wrote:So then in Australia if you take your wife to dinner and some good Ole boys come in and sit down and start talking loudly enough for at least six tables to hear about their sexual exploits using about every kind of profanity one could think of is the norm?

Gunner wrote:So what your telling me is I can go to any server, and type in any form of sexual remark I want, to anyone on the server I want, and you find this acceptable?

Gunner wrote:How about racial remarks, why should they be any different, if I can make any sexual remark about anyone on the server regardless of gender, then can I make any remark on any server I want regardless of Race?

Gunner wrote:I mean why not? If we can talk about what we would like to do to the women on the servers, why not the pygmies? Shoot let's just throw morals out the window, so does this also apply to our homes, I mean if anyone should be allowed to come to our servers and say anything they want, why can't they come into our homes and say anything they want, should they be required to show us some respect in our homes? Should we even be allowed to remove them from our homes? Perhaps kicking them from our living room for inappropriate behavior is way off coarse?

Gunner wrote:Do we have an age differentiation here? I mean we all know there are kids on these servers as young as 10, perhaps even younger, I stupidly thought I was to set an example for the younger generation, of course they know about sexual innuendos than I ever will but hey, I'm 55 and way behind the times. But I guess it's ok to use this type of language in front of them? Why not on the street then, or in the local restaurant when they may be having dinner with their parents, what right do the parents have to object, oh I know, who got there first, well old man we were here having our conversation before you and your family got here, so if you don't like it leave.

Gunner wrote:If I sound argumentative I apologize I don't mean to be, just trying to understand this new morality and make a few points. This has been argued time and time again. We don't like to hear or see men make comments that are of an extreme sexual nature in front of our wives. I guess we made mistakes in getting our wives interested in this FPS stuff in the first place.

Gunner wrote:It's difficult when you get old and you see a new set of rules enter into life. I try real hard to fit in and figure ok, where is the boundary that just got crossed and make intelligent decisions.

It doesn't always work out.

echo wrote:I wasn't yelling at you. I asked nicely 'please go back and defend 163', it's hardly yelling. I mean come on, you are taking this completely out of context!

You obviously do not follow orders if you do not defend when asked by your commander. You went ahead and attacked, after I said not to. So it is not an 'absolute falsehood'. I didn't report you or anything, I could have, seeing as I thought I could still work with you; but it was to late.

The game ended so I am just going to say that this whole situation is now ended, as we clearly aren't getting anywhere.

Snazz wrote:We have our own equivalent of rednecks and they are numerous, loud, profane in public places, so you could say it is the norm.


I might not approve of it personally, but you're free to say it as far as I'm concerned.


If it's serious racism I would definitely be opposed to it ideologically, however I'd just try and ignore it.


A game server is an impersonal environment relative to someone's home, but I recognize the owner/admins authority either way.


IMO, whether you're 10 or 70 you shouldn't take indirect language personally.


No need to apologize, we're just sensitive to different things. I'm of the mindset that the fairest way for everyone to get along peacefully is to just take things lightly and indirectly, or ignore them altogether.

I assume you think that the solution is preemptive restriction, provided everyone was happy with that it would work (kind of like Communism). But people like myself see 'freedom of speech' as more important then protecting the feelings of those who're indirectly offended.


I understand that, although I think the matter of saying what you want - how you want vs only saying things that aren't potentially indirectly offensive isn't that new.

Personally if I was an admin I probably would also kick/ban people for what I conceived as disrespectful, similar to kicking someone out of my home. But the difference with me is that I don't interpret the use of profanity/racism/sexism as directly offensive unless it's personal attacks, which can still be ignored and avoided without requiring anally retentive administration.

echo;1133886 wrote:I don't know what you are trying to imply, but considering this thread is to do with a complaint about commanding, or specifically my commanding on one map, I am going to assume that you directed that at me.
QUOTE]



i was not directing it at you it was simply an example.

furthermore i would still like to know what your "master plan" for that round was BEYOND defending the hill

JKJudgeX wrote:"Right to free speech doesn't exist on private servers" .... when those private servers are run by free men, who respect freedom, by God, that right exists there, too.

JKJudgeX wrote:Generalization:
"You obviously do not follow orders if you do not defend when asked by your commander. You went ahead and attacked, after I said not to."

Correction:
I DO follow orders. Probably more than 90% of the time and probably more often than MOST PR PLAYERS. I did not follow YOUR orders 100% because they were in the outlier percentage of BAD ORDERS.

Let me clarify what BAD ORDERS are...

When a squad is given an order that is not plausible within a reasonable amount of time, it is a bad order. When a squad is given an order that is suicide, or near suicide, or a wild goose chase... it is a bad order. Your order to SOME squads, to defend that hill was a fine order, THEY WERE THERE, and they numbered 6 or 4 in-squad, already close or at the location. To a squad of 2, trying to defend a position across the map against a never-ending stream of tanks and enemies is foolish. There are CLEARLY other ways that squad can be useful.

As has been said before, "ALL SQUADS DEFEND ONE POINT" in AAS is almost never a good strategy, regardless of the map. In any game, really, 100% defense is inviting the enemy to cut you down.

Does giving a bad order make a bad commander? No. No more than losing a single shootout makes a bad PR soldier. Does becoming pissy when someone disobeys one of your orders make a good commander? No.

You're acting like we were running around the map calling people noobs and running over teammates and wasting assets. You're acting like we were problem players when in fact, we were simply in disagreement with your singular, arguably bad or misplaced order.

I hope that makes sense to you.

Gunner wrote:So then in Australia if you take your wife to dinner and some good Ole boys come in and sit down and start talking loudly enough for at least six tables to hear about their sexual exploits using about every kind of profanity one could think of is the norm? Man I need to move I must live in some stuff shirted backwoods nation.

Of course this happened 20 years ago, perhaps things have changed.

So what your telling me is I can go to any server, and type in any form of sexual remark I want, to anyone on the server I want, and you find this acceptable?

How about racial remarks, why should they be any different, if I can make any sexual remark about anyone on the server regardless of gender, then can I make any remark on any server I want regardless of Race?

I mean why not? If we can talk about what we would like to do to the women on the servers, why not the pygmies? Shoot let's just throw morals out the window, so does this also apply to our homes, I mean if anyone should be allowed to come to our servers and say anything they want, why can't they come into our homes and say anything they want, should they be required to show us some respect in our homes? Should we even be allowed to remove them from our homes? Perhaps kicking them from our living room for inappropriate behavior is way off coarse?

Do we have an age differentiation here? I mean we all know there are kids on these servers as young as 10, perhaps even younger, I stupidly thought I was to set an example for the younger generation, of course they know about sexual innuendos than I ever will but hey, I'm 55 and way behind the times. But I guess it's ok to use this type of language in front of them? Why not on the street then, or in the local restaurant when they may be having dinner with their parents, what right do the parents have to object, oh I know, who got there first, well old man we were here having our conversation before you and your family got here, so if you don't like it leave.

If I sound argumentative I apologize I don't mean to be, just trying to understand this new morality and make a few points. This has been argued time and time again. We don't like to hear or see men make comments that are of an extreme sexual nature in front of our wives. I guess we made mistakes in getting our wives interested in this FPS stuff in the first place.

It's difficult when you get old and you see a new set of rules enter into life. I try real hard to fit in and figure ok, where is the boundary that just got crossed and make intelligent decisions.

It doesn't always work out.

JKJudgeX wrote:Okay, just spent another day playing PR... and I've been playing a while now...

And I have a few quick, simple complaints.... About players.... Not PR. The game itself and the guys who made it are awesome.

Please Note: This is a rant. Take it or leave it. I'm just blowing steam here. THESE IN NO WAY apply only to Project Reality... they pop up elsewhere, this is just the game I was playing when I ran into a crapload today.


1) Bossy commanders:
I listen to commander orders *almost* to a fault. I've been told to build fire bases in completely stupid places and done it because I was ordered to. I've been told to attack bases when defense was obviously needed instead, etc...

But today, I had an awesome experience where my 2 man squad was HOUNDED by the commander and another squad on the tactical gaming server because we did not want to defend a point that had literally the whole team, minus us, at it, after being told to build a firebase across the map and losing our ride back. Us 2, my girlfriend and I, were essentially blamed for the loss for not running back to be slaughtered at the base that everyone else abandoned as well. Hounded by server admins for not following CO orders, and hounded by CO for not following CO orders. As if it would have mattered. Great reason to treat someone rudely, btw.

Think about it this way, guys... if you're the commander of a team of 30 guys, and you have 4 squads of 6, a squad of 2, and a squad of 4... How do you place the blame on the squad of 2 that you dispatched to the far east of the map, when you were the commander of 30 other people who ALSO failed to hold a critical point? Seriously? I know you're butt-hurt because you lost, but, when you took the commander seat, you took responsibility for what happens thereafter, take it like a man, and if you must blame someone, blame a full squad that abandoned your objective long before a 2 man that built you 2 firebases. Jesus.

2) Strict server rules:
...Seriously... language filter? In a game about killing people? Really? Have you guys heard how soldiers talk in the field? No? Youtube it. Watch Motari throw a puppy off of a cliff for fun. Of all the games to have a language rule, this one would be the last that came to mind, but I just watched like 5 people get kicked for language.

We need more people playing this mod. It's an awesome mod. Do you, by some wild stretch of the imagination, think that strict server rules, hounding people, treating new players rudely, etc, will help this game in any way? Really? Lighten. The. Hell. Up.

Bottom line: I can burn you to death with a "Molotov Cocktail", but if I say one of the words that appears in that phrase, I'm out? I understand banning someone if they come in and straight spray profanities non-stop spam-style, but jesus, there are some uptight people running these servers.


3) "Read our forums or quit."
I was told by a wonderfully awesome player today to "read the forums or quit". Guys, I barely have time to come to this forum and post (which I am doing ... pretty much in the time I would have finished playing that very map). I certainly don't have time to go visit every individual BF2 and PR server forum out there and read the LITERALLY 5 pages of "rules" that are updated with individual maps. I'm sorry. I know it's lazy, but, as it stands, I've barely got 90 minutes a day to even try and entertain myself, I don't need to spend 15 minutes of my life, ever, reading about how you believe a game should be played on a website, when you have the ABILITY TO SCROLL GAME RULES IN GAME.

If you have TOO MANY RULES to scroll in game, you have TOO MANY RULES.

About 15 minutes into the first match on a server, I've already forgotten what server I'm playing on. This is because:

4) I play a LOT of other games. I play MMOs, I play vBF2, I play Jedi Academy, I play HL Mods, I play 2142, etc etc etc. If you put a gun to my head, I couldn't name the last 2 servers I played on. No offense, I appreciate the servers, but, I don't sit around after I close PR thinking "man, I should go to the forums for that server I just joined"... nor do I look at the server list in-game, alt-tab, and start googling for server rules and forums. If you think "most" people do, you are sadly mistaken.



If you want to reply to this, it's fine, but, please, the only kind of reply I really care about would be one that was something like this:

Come play on this server: Servername, we don't do/promote any of that ****. We just play the game as the game is, allow people to talk and act casually, we encourage teamplay, and you don't need to read our forums to play.

That would make my day.

Fat chance.

Flame on.
-JX

2) Strict server rules:
...Seriously... language filter? In a game about killing people? Really? Have you guys heard how soldiers talk in the field? No? Youtube it. Watch Motari throw a puppy off of a cliff for fun. Of all the games to have a language rule, this one would be the last that came to mind, but I just watched like 5 people get kicked for language.

We need more people playing this mod. It's an awesome mod. Do you, by some wild stretch of the imagination, think that strict server rules, hounding people, treating new players rudely, etc, will help this game in any way? Really? Lighten. The. Hell. Up.

Bottom line: I can burn you to death with a "Molotov Cocktail", but if I say one of the words that appears in that phrase, I'm out? I understand banning someone if they come in and straight spray profanities non-stop spam-style, but jesus, there are some uptight people running these servers.

05grottim wrote:that's such a lame argument that i hear everywhere. I think we need more of a reason that its ther server. Most people own a server so that they have the power of kick and ban- they just dont admit it, that's why i like to have one also scrims on it are good aswell bt thts off topic. Back on topic Cud we actually have a good reason why ther is a language filter on servers because i've never heard one.

L4gi wrote:The language filter should only be used for swear words tho, not words like noob or something.

L4gi wrote:Nothing bad with a language filter. Stops filth coming out of peoples mouthes rather well. Usually people whining about having one are the ones using foul language.

The language filter should only be used for swear words tho, not words like noob or something.

L4gi wrote:I think a games server is a little different to your home. Would you invite 64 strangers from all over the world round your house every night? Not really a valid comparison. If this is supposed to be the most realistic fighting video game in the world- which imo it's not even tho people treat it like one then i think you would probably allow swearing. I dont think ther are many soldiers in the world that dont curse.

snooggums wrote:It is still a game, which is hosted by people who want to have a fun time with a game that attempts to replicate the realism of combat, not the realism of soldiers.

Battlefield Vietnam did not allow you to massacre villages. PR doesn't allow you to bomb residential areas with people, or assassinate leaders. There is a limit to how much is realistic, including player behavior. If you notice a lot of the most popular servers have swear filters and don't allow racist or derogatory language. They are popular because most people don't enjoy playing with someone who likes to broadcast their bigotry, racism and contempt for the other players. Being able to hold in a few curse words in public chat shows you can play with others, and that is what people look for in fellow players.

There are plenty of servers that allow cursing, since you can't understand the ones that don't you can always play on the cursing servers. The people who do things you don't agree with don't have to convince you that they are right when you can simply do something else.

In addition, typing takes time,and is not a format that would count a swear as a surprised utterance (such as getting shot). If you curse when you are surprised you can always not push the VOIP transmit button when you are surprised. If you are on a server that doesn't allow cursing and you use the squad chat to curse, you will only get in trouble if someone reports you. I even curse occasionally in squad VOIP when I know the others won't be offended. I don't report the occasional curse and simply tell someone that racist terms are not allowed the first time I hear it. You won't get kicked from my squad or be reported by me for a first offense in squad VOIP/chat, but I support the overall language restrictions because it does limit the population to people that have enough self restraint to be enjoyable to play with. Do be aware that if you are on a server with an admin watching the logs you may be warned/kicked even if no one reports you since squad text chat shows up there.

I shared your opinions 10 years ago when I started playing CS as my first online game. I've grown up a lot since then and understand why online games have certain player rules.